I read somewhere (i can't remember who sorry guys) that some one here is making a sunfire with allwhell drive and some engine swap i would be interested in reading about that... that sound really cool - i (puting my masculinity aside) kinda like the sunfires not the brand new ones but like 95 up style.
I was curious on theis because i was thinking about my awd van... if there was a way to teake my awd system in my safari (1994) and put in some really light car.... and put a small block to it... i would be at 60 like in no time. You guys remember the onyl 300hp awd typhoons? I have a video somewhere (looking for it) from limewire of a vette getting smoked by one in a 0-60 time. just stock. i was thinking take about 1500 pounds off of that and put some realy big slicks on all tires and just go like hell.. and my van handles pretty well actually. if you drive it really hard ... BUT it gets to the point where it is too high off the ground and where it is too top heavy (i have a glavel conversion) so it gets to the point where it feels like it WILL roll so i though hey lets put this junk in a car. and i know htat tranny will hold up to 300hp as it is the same as they used for the typhoons... so yeah any info woul dhelp.. I was going to sell the van but... you know i could probably get no more than a g for it. so why not completely screw with EVERYTHING ...
That would be me lol. I haven't got a whole lot done on it other then pulling out the anemic old 2200 and it's 3t30. I'm using the trans and complete suspension set up from a pontiac 6000. I'm using a 4.9 because of it's torque curve that and i wanna see all the rice boy's faces when I crack the throttle on that thing and they hear 8 cylinders over all four tires bawling to life . Your drive train in your astro van would be a real pain to get under a car. It is pretty much a Bravada drivetrain or a 4wd s-10 drive train with a non shiftable transfercase. So your goig to have to squeeze a RWD tranny 4WD transfer case and a front and reaer diff set up under a little car. if you wanted to do that the easiest thing to would be to cut the floor out of somthing with a close whel base and plop it on the astro chassie. Not suber easy but not real hard either.
------------------ 85 fiero GT 3800 sc swap in progress 98 Sunfire waiting for 4.9 and AWD 85 S-10 turbocharged 3800 83 Citation x-11 turbocharged 3.1 with AWD 6000 running gear SOLD 94 Bonneville SLE daily driver 94 Bonneville SSEi wifes pearl pink daily driver 93 Bonneville SSEi I duno why 94 Bonneville SSEi parts for the rest of them
Yeha i supose you are right but what awd system are you using for your swap in the sunfire man? I mean i would love to know more about it! Do you have a thread on it i have done a search and i have found noine. I am sure others would like ot know more too! I would love to see this done somewhere. And what awd does the 4.9 hook to ?and if the 4.9 will hit it won't the norstar?
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03:01 PM
FastIndyFiero Member
Posts: 2546 From: Wichita, KS Registered: Aug 2002
hmmmmm can't give you exact year they where availiable but my last drivetrain came from a 89 i think so i'm guessin maby 87 - 90. We have a yard up here that seems to collect them although I've picked them all pretty clean. I was the same as you though saw it in the yard one day i was like WTF never really did a whole lota reasearch on them though.
if you look it up wikipedia they say the tranny is a 125 hooked to a 3.1 lt
personally i would not try to put a 4.9 lt caddy on that tranny - btw teh awd system you got was limited production i mean there was only 1500 with the awd system.
Were the Aztecs available with an AWD? Seems like I heard something about them a while back. If so, wouldn't that be a little better tranny (overdrive)?
yep the AWD's are pretty rare thats y I bought all the parts i could. Save myself from looking for them later. The 125 isn't that bad of a trans guys bolt small blocks to them all the time with out problems. The aztec is awd same with the montana never looked under one though.....humm..........
Oh and the exact production numbers are as follows 88 STE AWD 124 89 STE AWD 1376 90 se AWD 2473
[This message has been edited by markviiisvt4 (edited 01-21-2006).]
yep the AWD's are pretty rare thats y I bought all the parts i could. Save myself from looking for them later. The 125 isn't that bad of a trans guys bolt small blocks to them all the time with out problems. The aztec is awd same with the montana never looked under one though.....humm..........
Oh and the exact production numbers are as follows 88 STE AWD 124 89 STE AWD 1376 90 se AWD 2473
Don't bother looking under a Aztek, Rendezvous, or Venture, if you are looking for AWD for high performance. First, the way the diff is set up it is like a pump that builds up to engage the rear wheels when the front speed is different enough from the rear speed so anything you build with it will constantly understeer. You will have to smoke the front tires to get motive force from the rears Second, you would have to deal with the nightmare of controlling an obscure variant of the GM family of 4T**-Es, which is currently very expensive, and the trannys have proven to be not terribly robust. Third, the output of the trans spins the opposite direction compared to the AWD 6000 setup. The rear diff also turns the opposite direction. The rear diffs in both systems are junk.
I have owned two Pontiac 6000 AWDs and my brother had one with a lot of miles and abuse on them and none had trans trouble. I see a lot of people bash the TH125 but most of the people that do have either never had one or had one and never blown it up, they are just not happy with the freeway performance. Given that the 125 came from (If you read the old GM literature) a hybridizing of TH350 and TH200 stuff, it really isn't surprising that it is simple and relatively tough. Perhaps one of the toughest all time GM FWD autos. Go to any trans shop and ask. They seldom ever get and never got too many 125s, but the failures of the 4T60 and its E version are the common, persistent, failure-prone bread and butter work that keep them in business. One trans guy said that the 4T60 and 4L60 are what put his kid through college.
That would be me lol. I haven't got a whole lot done on it other then pulling out the anemic old 2200 and it's 3t30. I'm using the trans and complete suspension set up from a pontiac 6000. I'm using a 4.9 because of it's torque curve that and i wanna see all the rice boy's faces when I crack the throttle on that thing and they hear 8 cylinders over all four tires bawling to life . Your drive train in your astro van would be a real pain to get under a car. It is pretty much a Bravada drivetrain or a 4wd s-10 drive train with a non shiftable transfercase. So your goig to have to squeeze a RWD tranny 4WD transfer case and a front and reaer diff set up under a little car. if you wanted to do that the easiest thing to would be to cut the floor out of somthing with a close whel base and plop it on the astro chassie. Not suber easy but not real hard either.
Thats quiet interesting, Are you a member of the jbody.org? If your not I suggest that you become one. One Jbody owner to another
I am a member of j body but i'm not very happy with the community. Most of the guys on there are young and have the "your a dusch bag mentality". I duno there is a lot of good info on there jus not crazy about a lot of people. we actually have a lot of j bodies in the area and i used to work for twistec but again not really my scene. no offense. Kurtakx thanks for the info saves me a trip to the yard lol. Oh and i totaly agree with you as the owner of a fleet of bonnivilles you always have to keep one or two spare 4t60e's on hand lol, but i never had a single problem with my AWD citation and i beat the living piss out of it. The 125 really is a good little trans although the 3t30 thats was in my sunfire was toast prolly do to lack of maintance.
OK bud - i have have done alot of time trying to find info on the 125.
1. the awd system you talk about that is the awd 125- how much power have you personaly thrown at it reliably? do you have a dyno sheet or at least the amount of hp you through at it with what ever more likely stock engine you through at it? I love awd and if that 125 you speak of is good to 450 wheel hp then hell yes but if not then to me it is crap. if an awd system can't henle at least that much it is crap. the awd in stealths can only handle what they put out- the eclispes are good to about 350hp with out mod same as the tranny for the evos- as for the skyliens i have heard of skylines hiting the 1800hp mark before tenenation. If there really is a realiable 4wd or awd system with a variable center diff that can handle that kind of power that is american made and is gmc i will be all over it like a boy in a candy store. but as far as i know that is all bs there is none. the sky's are the ones to go awd with as far as i can tell. they are quick not fast. around where i come from quick matters more than fast. where the hell am i going to go fast at? 140mph is more than enough for me and if i can get there in less than 20 seconds i would be happy as a pig in slop.
2. as far as i have been told you would need at least 2 clutch packs per for the the 125 to handle even 300hp/tq. so that is all i have to say.
i have a 125 in my fiero now. and if the 125 can really handle much more power than what oreif did reliably {he did about 230hp at engine and 197 at wheels} (with out becomeing junk in a week) then i may as well ignor the fact that every tranny shop that i called and said that it was a piece of shat. and that i should go 4t80E hmmm...
The engine in my Citation was a mclaren grand prix engine had injectors and a boost controller at 12 lbs. couldn't give you a HP number, but ran a best time of a 13.94 so...... Oh and since your quoting DSM's I talked to Dave Buscher (real good friend of mine) says you better re check your numbers on those AWD set ups. auto eclipse 3000gt or evo good till about 200 before needing serious trans work. Skyline is about 800 befor etheir auto craps out but since it's a longitudinal trans and engine set I'd like to see you squeez that in a small GM car ad on to that the expense of adaptors and controllers to run it ? No thanks For a car that will ever make over 300 HP that i'm gonna drive back and forth to work, I'll stick with what I know
If the 125 is such a bad trans then Why did GM bolt it to an AWD set up instead of using the 4t60 wich was avaliable in the 6000?
They told you to go 4t80e huh? Have you ever seen one they are HUGE!!!! and take a **** load of HP to run thats y the only place you will find one is behind a northstar. On top of that how are you going to control it? If you really want to talk to any one about the strength of a 125 talk to archie he has bolted lt1's ls2's, and many other 400hp+ SBC's to them.
When i emailed him i had no reply- then do me a favor tell most every one else on the forum. (and btw i don't personally know this burcher guy( i know who you refer to and have talked with him via email about a year ago about these trannies) but he makes custom trannies for those dsms of course he will telll you they only handle 200hp. i know poeple at dsmtuners and in MN that are relaiable (barely but holding) to 350hp they have boost timed out for the shifts so it won't blow.)
So if there was some way you could get archie to get back to me tha'd be great. and as far as i know that tranny was sent to a pro in wisconsin- i cna't remember the guys name but he has done a ton of race cars and has more eperience than god when it comes to trannies. Either there is a major difference between the fwd 125 and the awd. or someone is lying to me- i suspenct that some one is lying of course some one always is full of bs.
do you have a time slip? and pics of your car? And wasn't the 4t60 a fwd not an awd???
Now i am not trying to argue with you- i am just so sick of peoples bull **** when it comes to trannies i could just puke. So i just want proof. Also what kind of MPG are you getting out of that citation? or... do you even still have it? you kind of make it sound as if it was past tense.
OH WAIT HOLD ON! i just noticed this you said AUTO trans when it came to the dsm oh yeah i don't even know how those things move with those autos with ou tjust stalling and jsut ka boom. i ment the stick is good to 350hp with about a stage 2 clutch.
do you have a time slip? and pics of your car? And wasn't the 4t60 a fwd not an awd???
Now i am not trying to argue with you- i am just so sick of peoples bull **** when it comes to trannies i could just puke. So i just want proof. Also what kind of MPG are you getting out of that citation? or... do you even still have it? you kind of make it sound as if it was past tense.
I've got time slips and pics have to dig them out though. All they did to the 125 was replace the extension case with a tail shaft unit. If they figured the 4t60 could stand the abuse y not just put on the back of that. I know i'm not willing to try it.
i'm not trying to argue either but i've been messin with that drivetrain since high school. i know it's pretty bullet proof (never broken one as a matter of fact. Wasted more 4t60's and e's then i can count. i got about 15 to 20 out of it, i sold it about 6 moths ago after 4 years
i would love to see them if you can find them. Hey do you got aim or msn messenger.
you can hit me almost any time at (aol) lambg24 or (msn) dupontlm@gdnmail.net
did you modify the 125? also i a said there was a 3.3 lt v6 to teh 125c in 1990 in teh old cutlass calais with 160hp. that means to me that gm thought it could at least handle that.
how much in you opinoin of tq and hp do you think the 125c in the fiero could hold to? and the same q as to the hp and tq that the awd 6000 could hold to? and again what kind of mpg did you get from that awd with boost on and off?
. Your drive train in your astro van would be a real pain to get under a car. It is pretty much a Bravada drivetrain or a 4wd s-10 drive train with a non shiftable transfercase. So your goig to have to squeeze a RWD tranny 4WD transfer case and a front and reaer diff set up under a little car. if you wanted to do that the easiest thing to would be to cut the floor out of somthing with a close whel base and plop it on the astro chassie. Not suber easy but not real hard either.
