I'm about one mouse click away from ordering up an MS-II, but I just KNOW that they'll release UMS (ultra mega squirt) as soon as I do!
I'd only go MS-II if I added the wide band option (I'm turbo'd - so it's somewhat a must have).

Anyhow - is anyone else using it successfully? Pics of install? Hints tips suggestions? Details on the WBO2 option?

Ultramegasquirt is not going to be out any time soon. dont worry about that. i have not heard of any sucessful attempts, but anything is possible with MS. most people like to stick with the factory gm computers for some reason...

quote Originally posted by Flyguyeddy: most people like to stick with the factory gm computers for some reason...

because..... they're better?

(just so nobody's confused... the above statement is not opinion, it's fact.)

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 01-07-2006).]

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: because..... they're better? (just so nobody's confused... the above statement is not opinion, it's fact.)

What makes them better than the Megasquirt controller? And are the factory computers better than all of the aftermarket units, or just the megasquirts.

He meant that the Mega Squirts are better.

It's more or less like saying that my Sempron 3000+ is better than "your" C64.
(kinda falls under the "duh!" heading)

They're so many times faster in CPU speed, features, you name it.

quote Originally posted by Chump: What makes them better than the Megasquirt controller? And are the factory computers better than all of the aftermarket units, or just the megasquirts.

The factory GM computers are infinitely better than ALL aftermarket computers. GM puts millions of dollars into development of the code that controls them - that's where they're better. Megasquirt is no better (or worse) than a holley, electromotive, Haltec, etc...

If you see any of the disassemblies for the GM computers, or even just an editor, you can see the number of features you can change...

megasquirt can do anything a GM can do except:

-VSS throttle follower
-Control Transmissions
-use a MAF
-open IAC for cooling fan kick-on
-open IAC for A/C, power steering, or user defined (?)....
-divide VSS pulses by (any number) to output to speedo - you'd need an aftermarket speedo interface
-adjust injector pulse width based on battery voltage (lower volts = takes longer to open = longer pulse)
-pulse injectors twice as long if injector pulse width falls below the minimum open time (can MS do this??? I hope so! That would suck to have your car stall because somebody forgot to put that in!)
-all that emissions crap (important to have if you have e testing)

that's just the beginning...

GM can do anything a megasquirt can do, except:
-no fancy graphical user interface

^^^ That's important for beginning tuners. GM computers, with all their extra features, have a much steeper learning curve. I think it some respects it's better to "learn" how to tune on an aftermarket, and once you have a solid foundation, to move back to a GM.

not sure what the best mega squirt program our cpu is but from what I understand the best GM computer is a cyclone/typhoon ecu.

Curious what all is involved (and cost) in tuning a GM computer. All I've seen are people with burned chips. So you need chips, a burner, what software do you use? How do you interface? From what I've read on this forum, it sounds like: insert chip, drive car for a while, turn off car, insert different chip, repeat.

With a megasquirt I know you can hook it up to any computer with a serial interface, even program on the fly while the car is running.

The real reason I like megasquirt over GM is looking toward the future when I swap in a non-gm motor (heresy!)

quote Originally posted by kwagner: Curious what all is involved (and cost) in tuning a GM computer. All I've seen are people with burned chips. So you need chips, a burner, what software do you use? How do you interface? From what I've read on this forum, it sounds like: insert chip, drive car for a while, turn off car, insert different chip, repeat. With a megasquirt I know you can hook it up to any computer with a serial interface, even program on the fly while the car is running. The real reason I like megasquirt over GM is looking toward the future when I swap in a non-gm motor (heresy!)

Well, you have an option between tunercat and tunerpro. One's free, one's not. If you buy a chip emulator, you can also program a GM computer "on the fly" while the car is running.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: The factory GM computers are infinitely better than ALL aftermarket computers. GM puts millions of dollars into development of the code that controls them - that's where they're better. Megasquirt is no better (or worse) than a holley, electromotive, Haltec, etc... that's just the beginning... GM can do anything a megasquirt can do, except: -no fancy graphical user interface ^^^ That's important for beginning tuners. GM computers, with all their extra features, have a much steeper learning curve. I think it some respects it's better to "learn" how to tune on an aftermarket, and once you have a solid foundation, to move back to a GM.

Is it possible to re-tune a GM computer for aftermarket things though? Say if one put a turbo on the car could an OBD-II computer be re-tuned for that?

------------------
AIM= Fish100770
96 Saturn SL2 Turbo (evil SL2)

My cardomain site: cardomain.com/memberpage/702872

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: Is it possible to re-tune a GM computer for aftermarket things though? Say if one put a turbo on the car could an OBD-II computer be re-tuned for that?

Not really... It would require a few hundred thousand dollars worth of reprogramming. As of now, the simplest solution would be to pick an OBDI computer that does boost, and use that. (Like the turbo grand prix, or the syclone)

The problem then is recreating the crank signal that you may not have now... But, with a CNC laser cutter, you can turn out a bolt on crank reluctor, and problem solved.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: The factory GM computers are infinitely better than ALL aftermarket computers. GM puts millions of dollars into development of the code that controls them - that's where they're better. Megasquirt is no better (or worse) than a holley, electromotive, Haltec, etc... If you see any of the disassemblies for the GM computers, or even just an editor, you can see the number of features you can change... megasquirt can do anything a GM can do except: -VSS throttle follower -Control Transmissions -use a MAF -open IAC for cooling fan kick-on -open IAC for A/C, power steering, or user defined (?).... -divide VSS pulses by (any number) to output to speedo - you'd need an aftermarket speedo interface -adjust injector pulse width based on battery voltage (lower volts = takes longer to open = longer pulse) -pulse injectors twice as long if injector pulse width falls below the minimum open time (can MS do this??? I hope so! That would suck to have your car stall because somebody forgot to put that in!) -all that emissions crap (important to have if you have e testing) that's just the beginning... GM can do anything a megasquirt can do, except: -no fancy graphical user interface ^^^ That's important for beginning tuners. GM computers, with all their extra features, have a much steeper learning curve. I think it some respects it's better to "learn" how to tune on an aftermarket, and once you have a solid foundation, to move back to a GM.

-VSS throttle follower
-Control Transmissions
-use a MAF
Can do.
-open IAC for cooling fan kick-on
Can do.
-open IAC for A/C, power steering, or user defined (?)....
Can do.
-divide VSS pulses by (any number) to output to speedo - you'd need an aftermarket speedo interface
-adjust injector pulse width based on battery voltage (lower volts = takes longer to open = longer pulse)
Can do.
-pulse injectors twice as long if injector pulse width falls below the minimum open time (can MS do this??? I hope so! That would suck to have your car stall because somebody forgot to put that in!)
Can do.
-all that emissions crap (important to have if you have e testing)

Can the GM controller control nitrous? Dual stage injectors? Water injection? Flat shift / Launch control? Electronic wastegate control? By now lots people are running COP with it too...In my opinion, about two or three months ago, it passed all but the newest GM computers in both features and functionality, and MS is FAR beyond other aftermarket controllers. It's just not the same fuel-only expirement that it started out to be anymore. With the introduction of the GPI/O board sometime this year, it will be doing sequential injection as well, with the capability to tune individual injector P/W along with many other features in addition to the ones already incorporated. In 2007 we're looking at built-in wideband control and ion-sensing ignition as base features.

It's main downfall for most IS emissions, but that's close to being resolved. It's time for it to be taken much more seriously than it is right now. Granted it's not for everybody, but neither are alot of the reprogrammed GM computers.

FAST says their XFI units car be configured to run egr and purge for the evap cannister. Don't forget wide band o2 also. Megasquirt certainly is a good value without all the bells and whistles.

quote Originally posted by FastIndyFiero: -VSS throttle follower -Control Transmissions -use a MAF Can do. -open IAC for cooling fan kick-on Can do. -open IAC for A/C, power steering, or user defined (?).... Can do. -divide VSS pulses by (any number) to output to speedo - you'd need an aftermarket speedo interface -adjust injector pulse width based on battery voltage (lower volts = takes longer to open = longer pulse) Can do. -pulse injectors twice as long if injector pulse width falls below the minimum open time (can MS do this??? I hope so! That would suck to have your car stall because somebody forgot to put that in!) Can do. -all that emissions crap (important to have if you have e testing) Can the GM controller control nitrous? Dual stage injectors? Water injection? Flat shift / Launch control? Electronic wastegate control? By now lots people are running COP with it too...In my opinion, about two or three months ago, it passed all but the newest GM computers in both features and functionality, and MS is FAR beyond other aftermarket controllers. It's just not the same fuel-only expirement that it started out to be anymore. With the introduction of the GPI/O board sometime this year, it will be doing sequential injection as well, with the capability to tune individual injector P/W along with many other features in addition to the ones already incorporated. In 2007 we're looking at built-in wideband control and ion-sensing ignition as base features. It's main downfall for most IS emissions, but that's close to being resolved. It's time for it to be taken much more seriously than it is right now. Granted it's not for everybody, but neither are alot of the reprogrammed GM computers.

That's pretty cool. I was just taking a stab in the dark, because I'm not really familiar with the mega squirt system... I've got a few more for you though

-knock sensor?
-associated knock retard vs knock event severity
-Adjustable closed loop AFR (i.e. instead of 14.7:1, can run it lean at idle like 15.2:1 for emissions& gas savings)
-Highway mode AFR, like above when highway speed/low load is detected
-Spark advance correction vs load and coolant temp
-control for 2 fans with seperate on and off temps, adjustable IAC kick up for both
-idle over/underspeed spark control (with adjustable spark advance/retard to bring rpm back to desired)

Here's a big one - error control? What happens if you unplug the CTS? Does it read that as "coolant is -32 degrees, pour in fuel", or does it read it as "error, flash service engine light, run in limp home mode"? Does it have limp home programming in the event of a loss of sensor(s)?

quote Can the GM controller control nitrous? Dual stage injectors? Water injection? Flat shift / Launch control? Electronic wastegate control?

I guess, no, I guess, yes, yes. If nitrous just needs an RPM activation, then yes. If water injection just needs a pump turned on at a certain rpm or coolant temp, then yes.

I have no doubt MS is a very good ECU. The next generation sounds better than most other aftermarket computers.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 01-08-2006).]

I didn't think MS could open the IAC when the a/c turns on, is this a new developement? They have an interface to use a wibe band O2 right? I'm wondering if it's even worth waiting for the UMS to come out when MS2 is already so good.

------------------
Alan Frazier
'86 GT-'92 3.4 TDC 5 speed(sold)
'84 2m4 project car

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: That's pretty cool. I was just taking a stab in the dark, because I'm not really familiar with the mega squirt system... I've got a few more for you though Here's a big one - error control? What happens if you unplug the CTS? Does it read that as "coolant is -32 degrees, pour in fuel", or does it read it as "error, flash service engine light, run in limp home mode"? Does it have limp home programming in the event of a loss of sensor(s)? quote Can the GM controller control nitrous? Dual stage injectors? Water injection? Flat shift / Launch control? Electronic wastegate control? I guess, no, I guess, yes, yes. If nitrous just needs an RPM activation, then yes. If water injection just needs a pump turned on at a certain rpm or coolant temp, then yes.

-knock sensor?
In development, code due to be released in a couple months
-associated knock retard vs knock event severity
Same as above
-Adjustable closed loop AFR (i.e. instead of 14.7:1, can run it lean at idle like 15.2:1 for emissions& gas savings)
Can do. Has a 12x12 AFR target map
-Highway mode AFR, like above when highway speed/low load is detected
-Spark advance correction vs load and coolant temp
Can do.
-control for 2 fans with seperate on and off temps, adjustable IAC kick up for both
Can't control dual fans without custom code
-idle over/underspeed spark control (with adjustable spark advance/retard to bring rpm back to desired)

It has basic error control, and a very basic limp home mode if it loses a signal on almost all of the sensors.

Nitrous control as in solenoid pulsewidth modulation with associated additional fuel injector pulsewidth, mapped according to RPM, in addition to spark retard. Water injection according to RPM and MAP also.

So obviously there are things that the GM controller can do that the MS can not, yet. If it were only applied to GM vehicles, I'm sure that all of the other features could be incorporated quite easily. But things like knock sensors are pretty picky, a hard thing to implement in a universal sense. I can't even use one on my motor because of the straight cut timing gears. So I suppose the application-specific GM controller takes this one by far (for now).

I hope this clears things up a little about what it is and isn't capable of.

Nate

quote Originally posted by FastIndyFiero: -idle over/underspeed spark control (with adjustable spark advance/retard to bring rpm back to desired)

I'm surprised they don't use rpm derivative idle spark control... It reacts a lot faster than the IAC, and in a lot of cases is necessary for a smooth idle.

I got my fiero to run on megasquirt. I have MSnS. Running the factory C3I ignition module setup on my 2002 series 2 L36 I havent played wtih it all that much. Still working on the car. Just wanted to get the engine running. LOL

[This message has been edited by Boosted2003 (edited 05-04-2006).]