I was thinking of building an upper intake that would adapt the eaton 62 from the 3800 to the 2.8. How many people would be interested and what kind of price range would would keep it affordable yet still be of a decent quality?
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05:50 PM
PFF
System Bot
DOHC_SWAPPER Member
Posts: 365 From: Igloo, Toque, Canada Registered: Nov 2005
I've never seen a kit that replaces the upper intake. There is/was a vendor that offered a kit to mount the SC in place of your A/C compressor. I forget the company's name but I think there is a link from the 'Fiero Secrets' website.
Gary
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07:25 PM
Fierofreak00 Member
Posts: 4221 From: Martville, NY USA Registered: Jun 2001
I was thinking of building an upper intake that would adapt the eaton 62 from the 3800 to the 2.8. How many people would be interested and what kind of price range would would keep it affordable yet still be of a decent quality?
I would like the idea, if you could get it to work...especially as I like to be different. Keep me updated, I'll help you in anyway I can. -Jason
quote
Originally posted by gladiator:
I've never seen a kit that replaces the upper intake. There is/was a vendor that offered a kit to mount the SC in place of your A/C compressor. I forget the company's name but I think there is a link from the 'Fiero Secrets' website.
Gary
I believe the name of the supercharger is Roterex...
[This message has been edited by Fierofreak00 (edited 12-02-2005).]
I have seen some not so detailed pics of this and i didnt' like it as it seemed to me they where trying to force all that air through the not so heavy breathing fiero upper intake. What would be a fair price for this os i have an idea how much to put into one?
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07:49 PM
gladiator Member
Posts: 241 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Registered: Sep 2001
I had toyed with the idea of doing what you described but I decided to go 3800SC instead. It might be possible, but the stock intake seems pretty tall already. Adding a supercharger may not clear the rear decklid.
Gary
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09:00 PM
George P Wood Member
Posts: 124 From: Bremerton, WA, USA Registered: Feb 2004
Consider a turbocharger. You keep just about everything...port fuel injection, A/C , and you don't have to fool with belts or pulleys. You can generate 20 PSI boost if you wanted to and assuming your engine would hold it so whay go with a blower when a turbo can provide all the boost that you'll ever need?
I was seriously considering a Fageol unit. But high cost, low availability, and the fact that it's not made specifically for the Fiero, made me think better of it. If someone were to offer a viable alternative to the Fagel units, it'd definately get my attention.
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11:42 PM
Dec 3rd, 2005
foxxman25 Member
Posts: 497 From: bunker hill, Il Registered: Apr 2005
I was thinking of building an upper intake that would adapt the eaton 62 from the 3800 to the 2.8. How many people would be interested and what kind of price range would would keep it affordable yet still be of a decent quality?
Why the m62 and not the m90? I think even with the 2.8 you'll be out of the optimal range of the m62 before your making good power with it.
But I think a adapter to allow the m90 to bolt up the 2.8-3.4 PR would be a great way to get turbo power for less.
If it would allow the lightning SC or the gtp SC I could careless either one would do me fine. I can get the m62 for $125-150 bucks from Kosiski's (used parts). I would buy BUT it would have to retain the factory MPFI. This would just make it that much easier to install and maintain. I'm sure most would not care about adding a vent to accomadate the m62 or m90...atleast I wouldn't care. So basically you should make an adapter that goes on top of the middle intake. The top intake is about 90% of the fieros problems. If all vacuum lines and everything else is in the factory position I would be all for it. Make sure to keep it affordable. In the $200 range if possible.
[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 12-03-2005).]
I had toyed with the idea of doing what you described but I decided to go 3800SC instead. It might be possible, but the stock intake seems pretty tall already. Adding a supercharger may not clear the rear decklid.
Gary
I also dropped in a 3800sc but a lot of guys can't afford it and although i myself can't stand the 60* series of engines there are a ton of people out there that love them, so why should't those guys have a cheeper alternitive to turbo charging. Your are right it is very doubt full that i can come up with somthing to clear the decklid so you may have to add a scoop or just caut the lid and let it hang out like the big boys!
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
Consider a turbocharger. You keep just about everything...port fuel injection, A/C , and you don't have to fool with belts or pulleys. You can generate 20 PSI boost if you wanted to and assuming your engine would hold it so whay go with a blowebr when a turbo can provide all the boost that you'll ever need?
Turbos while they are the best way to go the very nature of the fiero makes them impratical complicated and to expensive for any one just wanting to do a decent bolt on mod. An intake set up that you can buy bolt on your car and find your own eaton to bolt on it is much cheeper and less involved. As a guy who does it for a living i will also be the first one to tell you there is much less (if any ) tuning involved in a supercharger.
quote
Originally posted by foxxman25:
Why the m62 and not the m90? I think even with the 2.8 you'll be out of the optimal range of the m62 before your making good power with it.
But I think a adapter to allow the m90 to bolt up the 2.8-3.4 PR would be a great way to get turbo power for less.
Since I'm kinda trying to do this with a budget in mind I think the M62 is the better choice simply do to availiablity, and the 2.8 is not the most durable of engines in its stock form so the m62 should me more then sufficent for a mild 2.8. However if I draw a lot of intrest i will consider building an intake for the m90 or a dual patern intake to let the owner choose his own blower. That will give the guys that want to step it up and run forged pistons, new managment, and such an option.
If it would allow the lightning SC or the gtp SC I could careless either one would do me fine. I can get the m62 for $125-150 bucks from Kosiski's (used parts). I would buy BUT it would have to retain the factory MPFI. This would just make it that much easier to install and maintain. I'm sure most would not care about adding a vent to accomadate the m62 or m90...atleast I wouldn't care. So basically you should make an adapter that goes on top of the middle intake. The top intake is about 90% of the fieros problems. If all vacuum lines and everything else is in the factory position I would be all for it. Make sure to keep it affordable. In the $200 range if possible.
LOL great minds do think a like LOL
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11:20 AM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40747 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
The complexity of supercharging is only mildly less than turbocharging when done correctly, the only thing you dont have to consider is the exhaust routing for the turbo and the exhaust should still be redone after supercharging to take full advantage of the thing. turbocharging is also far more efficient than supercharging and if the money is going to be invested in a car why not go the most effective route?
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12:16 PM
fierosound Member
Posts: 15155 From: Calgary, Canada Registered: Nov 1999
Originally posted by Fiero801: The complexity of supercharging is only mildly less than turbocharging when done correctly, the only thing you dont have to consider is the exhaust routing for the turbo and the exhaust should still be redone after supercharging to take full advantage of the thing. turbocharging is also far more efficient than supercharging and if the money is going to be invested in a car why not go the most effective route?
MILDLY less complex my @$$, you don't have to change the exhaust IF you don't want to or can't afford to at the time. The m62 is a self contained unit meaning no oil lines. You don't have a $hit ton of piping. You can't just compare a SC to a TC because they all have diffetrent uses and characteristics. The effiecieny of either depends on application and a ton of other variables.
quote
Originally posted by Fastback 86: Just wondering how you were planning to get around the fuel rail...?
I can't speak for markviiisvt4, but the most logical way would be leave it where it is and don't mess with the middle intake ONLY make an adapter that would be attached to the middle intake...therefore everything below it would be stock. This is better just in case some us need to check in with the smog nazis. I love Nebraska...no smog checks.
I have put alot of serious thought into this as well. My only hang ups when trying to visualize it was belt alignment with the SC pulley and the crank pulley and the belt routing. I figured you could get a longer belt and figure out the routing or figure out a way to run it off the crank from a seperate belt, but that would only work for people that have deleted their A/C...like myself.
[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 12-03-2005).]
I can't speak for markviiisvt4, but the most logical way would be leave it where it is and don't mess with the middle intake ONLY make an adapter that would be attached to the middle intake...therefore everything below it would be stock. This is better just in case some us need to check in with the smog nazis. I love Nebraska...no smog checks.
I have put alot of serious thought into this as well. My only hang ups when trying to visualize it was belt alignment with the SC pulley and the crank pulley and the belt routing. I figured you could get a longer belt and figure out the routing or figure out a way to run it off the crank from a seperate belt, but that would only work for people that have deleted their A/C...like myself.
Thats exactly my plan. I plan on building the upper intake only. It will bolt to the center intake with very little or no modification. The SC will add about 3 inches of hight to the top of the engine in order to do this, but i think the possiability of having to add a scoop or such to the declid is a respectable sacrifice to keep the stock FI set up. As for the belt arangement I have the routing figured out simply by adding a longer belt and an idler pully similer to rodney dickmans although I have oviously not tested it, it should work. The price is going to be under $500 I think. Some one threw out the price of $200 wich would only really be possiable if I made it of steel and i'm not really crazy about that so give me some feed back.
Figured I better post my sig so no one thought i was just some bone head. Also since I no longer have a 2.8 in my car, once I get the whole prototype together I'm gonne need to give it to some one to install and evaluate for me. Preferably some one here in Ohio but not nessarily. I'll offer a production version to the tester for the price of meterials.
------------------ 85 fiero GT for sale 3800 sc hellp i need a flywheel 94 Bonneville SSEi 93 Bonneville SSEi 94 Bonneville SSEi parts for the rest of the fleet 85 S-10 turbocharged 3800 83 Citation x-11 turbocharged 3.1 with AWD 6000 running gear SOLD
[This message has been edited by markviiisvt4 (edited 12-03-2005).]
About the steel thing why don't you like steel? If it keeps the cost down run with it. Is it because of heat soak? If I had to sacrifice a hole in my decklid and a steel upper intake manifold instead of an aluminum one to put an m62 or m90 on my car for around $200 then I'm all for it.
what are you gonna do about the throttle body? Would the stock throttle cable be able to be used with little or no mods? The sensors on our stock throttle body?
[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 12-03-2005).]
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05:13 PM
I wear pants Member
Posts: 579 From: Columbus, IN Registered: Jun 2005
About the steel thing why don't you like steel? If it keeps the cost down run with it. Is it because of heat soak? If I had to sacrifice a hole in my decklid and a steel upper intake manifold instead of an aluminum one to put an m62 or m90 on my car for around $200 then I'm all for it.
what are you gonna do about the throttle body? Would the stock throttle cable be able to be used with little or no mods? The sensors on our stock throttle body?
Yeah I was kinda worried about the heat disapation rate of the steel. as for the throttle bodie i'm not sure yet I would like to use the 3800 TB all our sensors will transfer to it with no problem but it might be over kill for our engines thats where some testing comes in. The stock fiero TB i'm almost positive would be to small so if it turns out the SC TB is to big we would prolly need to use a 3800 N/A TB. Again this is where some testing is gonna come in. The cable might be a pain I have to look a little more into what the swap guys are doin since I haven't got that far yet. I'm glad i'm gettin such a good response, and i will look into building one in steel as it will considerbly keep costs down.
Thanks to you guys who are offering their cars to most people get nervous using their pride and joy as a lab rat, especially for somthing that could cause some damage if not handled carefully.
Hey, i just want to say that if you can make this adaptable to rwd applications(thirdgen f-body) me, and possibly many others over at thirdgen.org will be very interested. An inexpenisve and simpler installalling power-adder is something we 6ers over there lack. Im not 100% sure how you are going about doing it, but i think the only applicable differences should be that it would need a 180* reversal, and the tb angle would be different, but the tb is something we could work with ourselves. I can help you if you want diagrams of the fbody setup or anything. I think it should be fairly easy to make the upper manifold symetrical, as the factory middle manifolds already are on the top.
I think there could farily easily be 10 guys from thirdgen.org that would be immediately interested in this, especially if everything that was necessary to be fabricated was available for the price ranges you are suggesting, and if it were only $200 then i think a lot of us would be quite interested. A wider group of purchases would also allow cheaper production. Something worth considering, let me know if you think its worth working with the requirements for our applications.
If you make a 200-300 dollar supercharger kit for the 2.8 v6, I am instantly in. Definitely. If the total cost is under 300.... It'd be my dream come true. Ditch that stupid upper intake, its all pretty and flows nothing. It would be nice to keep it pretty simple too, an afternoon install... Damn, that's my dream right there.....
Hey, i just want to say that if you can make this adaptable to rwd applications(thirdgen f-body) me, and possibly many others over at thirdgen.org will be very interested. An inexpenisve and simpler installalling power-adder is something we 6ers over there lack. Im not 100% sure how you are going about doing it, but i think the only applicable differences should be that it would need a 180* reversal, and the tb angle would be different, but the tb is something we could work with ourselves. I can help you if you want diagrams of the fbody setup or anything. I think it should be fairly easy to make the upper manifold symetrical, as the factory middle manifolds already are on the top.
I think there could farily easily be 10 guys from thirdgen.org that would be immediately interested in this, especially if everything that was necessary to be fabricated was available for the price ranges you are suggesting, and if it were only $200 then i think a lot of us would be quite interested. A wider group of purchases would also allow cheaper production. Something worth considering, let me know if you think its worth working with the requirements for our applications.
I've had a few 2.8 third gens at let me be the first to say sorry lol those things are what turned me off to the 2.8's lol just kidding. A kit designed for the fiero should bolt right on your middle intake as i think there the same bolt patternand can be flipped either way you guys should also have a few more options with the belt since your using more acc. and a spring loaded tensioner. The thing i see you running into is the same thing i ran into when i tried putting a 3800 S/C in my s-10 and thats the TB hitting the firewall, since oviously the nose drive has to be belt drivin the TB is gonna be out back and it's been a little while since i seen under the hood of one of those things.
If you make a 200-300 dollar supercharger kit for the 2.8 v6, I am instantly in. Definitely. If the total cost is under 300.... It'd be my dream come true. Ditch that stupid upper intake, its all pretty and flows nothing. It would be nice to keep it pretty simple too, an afternoon install... Damn, that's my dream right there.....
I mentioned that he should keep t in the 200 range, but i ment the adapter itself. I think a kit would cast double that or slightly more but the cost/performance ratio would be awesome still.
I've had a few 2.8 third gens at let me be the first to say sorry lol those things are what turned me off to the 2.8's lol just kidding. A kit designed for the fiero should bolt right on your middle intake as i think there the same bolt patternand can be flipped either way you guys should also have a few more options with the belt since your using more acc. and a spring loaded tensioner. The thing i see you running into is the same thing i ran into when i tried putting a 3800 S/C in my s-10 and thats the TB hitting the firewall, since oviously the nose drive has to be belt drivin the TB is gonna be out back and it's been a little while since i seen under the hood of one of those things.
Yah, they are pretty sad . . . I'm just trying to get mine to the range where I can even respect it as a daily driver, then I'll buy another car if I want to go fast.
I guess the only design request I would have is that the supercharger be mounted as close to the pulleys as possible, to provide more working room for RWD TBs.
Yah, they are pretty sad . . . I'm just trying to get mine to the range where I can even respect it as a daily driver, then I'll buy another car if I want to go fast.
I guess the only design request I would have is that the supercharger be mounted as close to the pulleys as possible, to provide more working room for RWD TBs.
Well heres how you can check if you run a straight edge aginst the balancer pully and the water pump pully thats where the front edge of the s/c pully will be. Tomarrow I'll go out and measure a M62 from pully to TB .
The adapter will run about 200 300 but you will have more then that in it but i still think you could keep it under a grand way under. and this is hush hush but i'll let you guys on the fiero forum in on my secret, I'm also desiging a aftr cooler for the m62 for all the series one boneville guys out there it will be an easy bolt on for us if you don't mind a little more scoop on your deck lid lol
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11:04 PM
Dec 5th, 2005
Mulholland_GT_Racer Member
Posts: 387 From: Iowa City, IA USA Registered: Aug 2005
Thats exactly my plan. I plan on building the upper intake only. It will bolt to the center intake with very little or no modification. The SC will add about 3 inches of hight to the top of the engine in order to do this, but i think the possiability of having to add a scoop or such to the declid is a respectable sacrifice to keep the stock FI set up. As for the belt arangement I have the routing figured out simply by adding a longer belt and an idler pully similer to rodney dickmans although I have oviously not tested it, it should work. The price is going to be under $500 I think. Some one threw out the price of $200 wich would only really be possiable if I made it of steel and i'm not really crazy about that so give me some feed back.
if you get a SC setup put together for $500 then you've got a buyer right here. I wanted to go T/C but the difficulty of piping is a bit of a hassle. I live in Iowa right now so the smog nazis aren't really a concern. However, I still have AC and mine still sorta works, and I'd rather not delete it since it's still functional.
From the way it looks now you will need an m62, longer belt, 3.8 TB, SC to middle intake adapter, idler pulley, gaskets and possibly more doesn't sound too bad. Should be way under a grand. I hope for like $700 or so that would be sick.
WHEN DO YOU PLAN ON MAKING THESE?
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10:13 AM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
markviiisvt4 said: The SC will add about 3 inches of hight to the top of the engine in order to do this, but i think the possiability of having to add a scoop or such to the declid is a respectable sacrifice to keep the stock FI set up.
Can you say "shaker"?
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12:07 PM
Fierobsessed Member
Posts: 4782 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 2001
The only problem with this is that the blower snout is in the way of one of the decklid's Ribs, and also the hinge. The decklid would have to be a split design, having a removable lid for the engine, if one at all. and a cut up decklid just for the trunk. At least that's what I plan on doing.
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01:23 PM
vafierro Member
Posts: 349 From: Newport News, VA Registered: Oct 2005
I was working at one time on an adapter for an M90 supercharger. It was going to be a LOT of work to get. The worst part I think is the factory fuel injection will not longer work IMO and aftermarket fuel rails would be required. I have the M90 still and would be willing to sell it if anyone is interested.
I was working at one time on an adapter for an M90 supercharger. It was going to be a LOT of work to get. The worst part I think is the factory fuel injection will not longer work IMO and aftermarket fuel rails would be required. I have the M90 still and would be willing to sell it if anyone is interested.
The injectors would need to be bigger but the stock configuration would work as long as you only replace the upper intake.
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09:37 PM
Fiero801 Member
Posts: 65 From: Salt Lake, Utah, USA Registered: Nov 2005
if you get a SC setup put together for $500 then you've got a buyer right here. I wanted to go T/C but the difficulty of piping is a bit of a hassle. I live in Iowa right now so the smog nazis aren't really a concern. However, I still have AC and mine still sorta works, and I'd rather not delete it since it's still functional.
Let me know what you guys are doing!
-Mulholland
Evertbody keeps talking about how hard and how much piping there is involved into a turbo and how SC is soooooo simple and that is completely untrue, both systems done correctly are going to be expensive if they are going to be very effective and the turbo slightly more so, but the vast increase in efficiency is worth the cost and the hassle of a little extra piping and oil lines.
