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Common problems? by stadt_soldat
Started on: 10-24-2005 07:49 PM
Replies: 11
Last post by: CC Rider on 10-25-2005 08:07 PM
stadt_soldat
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Report this Post10-24-2005 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for stadt_soldatClick Here to visit stadt_soldat's HomePageSend a Private Message to stadt_soldatDirect Link to This Post
Well, I've done several searches on google and on this board, and I can't seem to find a compilation of common problems on these cars. I'm going to look at an '87 GT on Friday or Sunday. It has the 5-speed manual. It has 125k miles, a motor rebuild less than 8k ago, headers, an aftermarket cam (brand unkown?), newer paint and tires, and an aftermarket sound system. He's asking $4300, but told me to make an offer if I like it after I drive it.

Right now I'm wondering what to look for. So far, I seem to have gathered that I should check for rust in the trunk under the plastic covers, look for leaking oil around the valve cover gasket, but that's about it. What other problems should I or can I look for?

One thing I'm concerned about is the transmissions on this car. Are they problematic? The 5-spd muncie getrag that is?

Thanks in advance guys, I appreciate it!

-Chris

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Report this Post10-24-2005 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sostockSend a Private Message to sostockDirect Link to This Post
few people have tranny problems until they start doing engine swaps. even the the manuals are pretty tuff.
look for any leaks or drips. look at the coolant to see if it is brownish, may indicate a bad head gasket. check the oil and see how dirty it is, may indicate he spent more money on the stereo than on oil changes.
check for rust under the battery-in the tray. for rust in the trunk you can pull the carpet away and stick your hand down in there. it has one or two drian holes so you will probably feel something dirty. just make sure you can't stick your hand through it. you can pull the carpet out, clean off any surface rust and spray some rust-o-leam in there to prevent further damage.
other than that, drive the car, see if it pulls to one side. hit the brakes hard and see if it pulls. make sure the headlights come up. that's all i got. good luck.
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wanobi
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Report this Post10-24-2005 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wanobiSend a Private Message to wanobiDirect Link to This Post
I would also make sure to get the car warm enough to make sure the cooling fan kicks on when it's suppose to and the cooling fans in the engine compartment come on also. not overly important, but it is to me.
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stadt_soldat
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Report this Post10-25-2005 12:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stadt_soldatClick Here to visit stadt_soldat's HomePageSend a Private Message to stadt_soldatDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the help guys. I'm suprised there isn't a FAQ's page or something with this stuff. Anyone else have any other things?
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Disillusion
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Report this Post10-25-2005 12:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DisillusionSend a Private Message to DisillusionDirect Link to This Post
headlight motors as well, not a huge deal as they're relatively cheap to rebuild/replace, but it's a pita if they're broken. mechanically though and what actually affects the driving ability of the car, Check out how the tranny feels when shifting. If it's sticky going side to side or from 1st to 2nd or 5th and reverse it could need new shift and select cables. Make sure all electricals work. If something doesn't it could lead to more problems down the road depending what it is. Check the frame underneath and under the trunk carpet for rust, common myth is fiero's don't rust cause they are plastic. Just check everything you would check on any car, and the few fiero specific things. Another common thing is the heater core. do you smell coolant when the heater is on? is the carpet in the passanger footwell damp?. Good luck with the car. 87 gt's are good (i bought mine about 2 years ago for 600$ less, canadian money though, with a lot less done to it) Take pictures of it and show us even if you don't buy it!

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Report this Post10-25-2005 12:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ka4nkfSend a Private Message to ka4nkfDirect Link to This Post
There are several things to look for
1- Make sure the E-Brakes work. this is a common problem
2--Make sure the oil pressure is still around 30 Lbs at idle when hot
3--Check for worn A-frame bushings
4--Check the headlight and make sure they go up and down
5--Check the windshield wiper and make sure it works these have been known to have what they call the Fantom Swipe at start up and using the turn signals.
6--Check the battery tray for rust, these are hard to replace
7--Check the shocks and struts
8--Check the vacumn lines for leaks
9--Check the heater core for leaks
10--If it has AC then check it for working
11--Check all the lights and make sure they work
12--Check the radiator fan and make sure it runs ( if it has ac you can turn the ac switch on and the fan should come on
13--Check the dogbone and make sure it is good
14--Check the steering wheel for looseness ( if it has tilt)
15--Check for noise while driving ( the car should be quite and very little road noise
16--Check the codes on the ecm connector see if any codes are stored .
17--Check real good all over the body for damage caused from a wreck
18--Check the radiator overflow bottle for leaks
19--Check the washer bottle for leaks
20-- I would try to get them to let you keep the car one day for these inspections. This would be great. I hope this helps
Don
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Report this Post10-25-2005 01:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2000RagTopSend a Private Message to 2000RagTopDirect Link to This Post
Here is a lot of info.......

Here is a Fiero Buyers Guide. It was printed in Hemmings Mag a few months ago. (even though I don't agree with some of it)

Pop quiz: Can you name the most popular two seat, mid-engine sporting car built in America in the last 20 years? Let's see, is it the fabulous new Ford GT seen elsewhere in this issue, or perhaps the $430,000, 200 mph Saleen S7? How about the aerospace-tech Vector W8? Although these cars combine mind-blowing performance with traffic-stopping looks, they make better fuel for hormone-driven teenage boy daydreams than actual daily-driver material. But there's another mid-engine sportster that you may not recall- with its willing V-6 engine, go-kart handling and mini-supercar looks, the 1986-1988 Pontiac Fiero GT was 1980s America's everyday exotic.

The Fiero, which debuted in 1984, had roots that went back nearly 20 years. Chief Engineer Elliot “Pete” Estes and John DeLorean had proposed a two-seat sports car based on a shortened Firebird chassis, but General Motors management didn't want Pontiac stealing the Corvette's thunder. By the late 1970s, Pontiac managers decided that they needed an economy car with performance flair, and the design brief was impressive; “A mid-engined two-seater with world-class fit and finish, a body that wouldn't rust, fully independent suspension, four-wheel disc brakes, rack and pinion steering, electronic fuel injection, space frame technology for safety and spirited performance with great fuel economy… with an MSRP under $8,000,” recalls Mike Murphy, a Pontiac Motor Division district sales manager during the 1980s. He explains how they accomplished this task; “The majority of the mechanicals were right off the shelf- the engine and transmission were straight out of the X-body cars (Citation, Phoenix , Omega, Skylark), the outside mirrors and many power accessory switches were from the Firebird and Camaro, and the front suspension was modified slightly from the Chevette/1000.” But the Fiero's inherent potential for performance was realized when Pontiac delivered the V-6-powered GT in 1985. The notchback-styled GT lasted only one year before being supplanted by the handsome new fastback model. The late-introduction 1986 GT used flying buttresses inset with glass to increase rear quarter visibility; due to the car's space frame design, this roofline was a simple bolt-on change that also brought a fresh neutral-density taillamp design. While the Fiero's typically wedgy nose and hidden headlamps remained, the GT's deep front air dam was complemented by a charcoal-silver ground effects kit in 1986 and 1987; this two-tone effect was swapped for monochromatic paint on 1988 GTs. Base Fieros shared the GT's 93.4-inch wheelbase, although due to their sporty cladding, GTs were about two inches longer than the base car's 162.7-inch length.

The 1986 Fiero GT, which at $12,999 cost nearly $4,000 more than the base model, came standard with the high-output, 135hp 2.8-Liter V-6 and dual exhausts, a Muncie-built Getrag five-speed manual transmission, staggered-width 15-inch diamond-spoke alloy wheels hiding four-wheel power disc brakes, an AM/FM/cassette stereo and a leather-wrapped three-spoke steering wheel. The GT cost $13,489 in 1987; this year the largest change was an increase in gas tank size from 10.2 to 12 gallons. Major changes arrived in 1988 when the Fiero's front and rear suspensions were substantially upgraded, rear discs were vented and the $13,999 GT's V-6 engine received an internally balanced crankshaft for greater smoothness. The instrument panel's previous brushed aluminum-look trim was also replaced by trim with a dot matrix pattern. Notable options included a common removable sunroof with shade or rare removable T-tops, a rear deck spoiler, air conditioning and a Turbo Hydramatic three-speed automatic transaxle.

In spite of its sporting improvements, the Fiero was cancelled after 1988 due to falling sales and rising insurance rates. And while it never threatened the Corvette's performance domination, the 2,700-pound V-6 GT acquitted itself nicely against the competing two-seat, mid-engine Toyota MR2 and front-engine Honda CRX Si; according to automotive journalists of the day, five-speed manual-equipped Fiero GTs ran 0-60 in 7.9-8.1 seconds, while automatic versions averaged 9.0 seconds in the same sprint. The quarter mile was dispatched in just over 16 seconds and top speed was about 120 mph, and the 1988 version pulled a strong .83g on the skidpad. And while more than 400,000 Fieros were built during their five year run, only ten percent were fastback GTs; 17,660 were built in 1986, 15,968 in 1987 and a mere 6,848 emerged in 1988. Despite their plebian roots, Fiero GTs are considered sporty cars worthy of real enthusiasm, and a number of clubs, online forums and vendors provide fans with technical and parts support. Offering exotic good looks, off-the-shelf parts availability, ease of modification and great bang for the buck, the Fiero GT is one of the best unheralded performance cars of the decade.

ENGINES
While base Fieros were powered by the long-running 2.5-Liter Iron Duke/Tech IV four-cylinder engine, GTs used the 2.8-Liter (173-cu.in.) V-6 that was shared with Pontiac 's 6000 and other mid-sized GM offerings. This 60-degree V-6 used a 3.50- x 2.99-inch bore and stroke in a cast-iron block with aluminum heads and an aluminum intake manifold. With 8.5-compression, computer-controlled multi-port fuel injection and high-energy ignition, 1985 and early 1986 GT V-6s were rated at 140hp at 5,200 rpm and 170-lb.ft. of torque at 3,600 rpm. Although no major engine revisions occurred, the V-6's power was re-rated in 1987 at 135hp at 4,500 rpm and 165-lbs.ft. of torque at 3,600 rpm. Exhaust was vented through sporty dual outlets, and while the V-6 was also standard on 1988 Formula models, it was optional on “lesser” Fieros. This engine received hydraulic engine mounts to quell vibration in 1988, along with internal balancing.

While its power ratings remained constant from mid-1986 through 1988, there were minor changes to the V-6. The timing covers and oil pans used in 1985-'86 were identical, as were the ones used in 1987-'88; these components cannot be mixed, although complete sets will interchange. “The 2.8 V-6s are very solid engines, but you have to watch for low oil pressure,” cautions Todd Weikal, specialist and owner of The Fiero Farm in Bates City , Missouri . “If the pressure drops, the engine will spin a rod bearing and it will need expensive low-end work. Check the oil gauge in the center dash pod for steady pressure around 60-pounds.” Exhaust leaks on the front side of the exhaust manifold and manifold cracks are also common; “The engine strut, or dog bone, is another common problem for most Fieros,” says Justin Cote, vice president of operations and tech advisor at The Fiero Store in Stafford Springs, Connecticut; “The rubber in this upper engine mount will fatigue and eventually cause the lower engine and transmission mounts to fail prematurely.”

TRANSAXLE
Similar to the Chevrolet Corvair and the 1961-1963 Pontiac Tempest, the Fiero used a transaxle that combined the transmission and the differential. When the notchback V-6 Fiero GT was first built in 1985, the only manual transmission that could stomach the engine's torque was the old Muncie four-speed; the Isuzu-sourced five-speed that was available in four-cylinder cars was a light-duty unit. A stronger Getrag-designed, Muncie-built MG-282 5-speed manual arrived with the fastback GT in late 1986, and it used the same 9 1/8-inch clutch as did other Fiero manuals. Its ratios were 3.92:1 (first), 2.19:1 (second), 1.38:1 (third), 0.94:1 (fourth), 0.72:1 (fifth) and 3.41:1 (reverse). The first two ratios were changed in 1988 (3.50:1 in first and 2.05:1 in second) to lower engine revs. The Borg-Warner Turbo Hydramatic 125C three-speed automatic, which was available in all GTs, used a lock-up torque converter and ratios of 2.84:1, 1.60:1, 1:1 and 2.07:1 (reverse). These rear-wheel-drive cars used a hypoid open differential and delivered power through constant velocity shafts, much like a front-wheel-drive car does. Final drive ratios varied between manual and automatic-equipped cars; five-speed GTs used a 3.61:1 axle ratio with an overall ratio of 2.60:1. The 3.33:1 ratio of automatic Fieros was both their axle and final drive ratio.

“The clutch system is one of the most common Fiero problems,” Justin recalls. “The clutch pedal is the most common problem on pre-1987 cars, but all years will often have a bad clutch arm, clutch line, master and/or slave cylinders. Many people have replaced the clutch thinking this was the problem, only to find out that it was an external hydraulic or pedal problem.”

SUSPENSION
The 1986 and 1987 Fiero GT independent front and rear suspensions were essentially adaptations of contemporary GM front wheel drive units; the front was based on the Chevette, while the cradle-mounted, strut-based rear was a similar to the A- and X-body front unit, but without provisions for steering. The original front suspension consisted of unequal-length A-arms, coil springs, tube shocks and an anti-roll bar. The rear suspension used Chapman struts, lower A-arms, tie rods, coil springs and an anti-roll bar. The GT's comprehensive 1988 suspension revision brought a standard WS6 performance package with lengthened unequal-length A-arms and shorter spindles, coil springs, tube shocks and a larger 23-millimeter anti-roll bar. The fresh independent rear suspension used a tri-link design with redesigned Chapman struts, coil springs and a 22-millimeter anti-roll bar. The 1988 improvements were tied to revised suspension mounting points on the space frame and offered a tighter turning radius, reduced bump steer and a smoother ride.

Fiero GT enthusiasts recommend checking the front and rear wheels of a potential purchase for free play, which may indicate problems with worn tie rods or a loose steering rack. Because the 1988 suspension revisions led to such notable handling and ride improvements, these cars are highly sought. Most suspension parts are still available, including control arms, tie rod arms, bushings and ball joints.

BRAKES
Unlike many small economy-based cars, Fiero GTs came from the factory with standard power-assisted four-wheel disc brakes. The solid 10 7/16-inch rotors were swapped for vented units in 1988, and they offered 321.6-square inches of swept area. These brakes hide behind standard black or gold diamond-spoke 15 X 6.5 front 15 x 7 rear -inch alloy wheels wrapped with 205/60-R15 front and 215/60-R15 rear Goodyear Eagle GT+4 tires. The stock ventilated rotors on 1988 Fieros offer greater resistance to fading after hard use, but their one-year-only design means they are tougher to locate. If you want more braking power for your GT, some newer GM cars can donate their larger rotors and calipers.

SPACEFRAME/BODY
The Fiero's enduring legacy is its revolutionary space frame design, which was used on GM's 1990s minivans and survives today in Saturn cars. The Fiero's 600-pound space frame consisted of six modules and 280 galvanized and high-strength steel stampings joined by 3,800 welds. The finished chassis was then drilled for body panels with a precise laser system and dipped into electrically charged primer. The Fiero's unstressed body panels were painted in relation to each other, off of the car. Rigid Sheet Molding Compound (SMC) was used on the roof, the front and rear decklids, the headlamp doors and the upper rear quarter panels. Reinforced Reaction Injection Molded (RRIM) plastic could resist parking lot dents, and was used in the doors, front fenders and lower rear quarters, while Reaction Injected Molded (RIM) polyurethane made up the flexible bumper covers.

The non-corrosive body panels can hide space frame rust in northern cars; the most common rust areas are under the battery in the engine compartment, on the sides of the trunk by the wheel wells under the carpeting, and in the bolt-on radiator braces. Many Fieros have been afflicted by pop-up headlamp troubles including early mechanical relay and motor failures, but they are often fixable. Body panels are no longer produced by GM, making NOS parts highly sought and used panels the common solution.

INTERIOR
The low-slung Fiero's interior was a sporty place to be; the GT's reclining bucket seats and were covered with cloth, unless the optional suede/leather/Pallex cloth (1986-'87) or leather coverings (1988) were chosen. As in any older car, the cloth is subject to seam tears or wear. Seat bottoms and seat bottom upholstery can be interchanged from side to side by swapping the tracks, and the seat back covers are interchangeable, but only by removing the material from the frame. New headlining material is available if the optional sunroof had a damaging leak, and carpet kits are also sold. Door panels and faulty gauges must be reconditioned.

RESTORATION PARTS
Because the Fiero GT is a relatively modern car with a low production volume, it doesn't have the huge supply of aftermarket reproduction parts of an early Firebird. But its common GM mechanicals make it easy to locate new, NOS or used replacements both from Fiero specialists and from your local auto parts store. “Many GM parts are still available,” says Fiero enthusiast and restorer Paul Vargyas of Lisle, Illinois . “The most difficult GT parts to locate are the lexan quarter windows and the taillamp covers, because they're currently not being made. They will often delaminate or fissure crack with sun and heat; unfortunately, OEM replacements are rare and expensive, and the quality of some aftermarket replacements isn't up to snuff.” Paul did note that while many parts aren't being remanufactured, it's very easy to find and recondition items ranging from body panels, wheels, trunk carpeting and rear spoilers. And although factory exhaust systems aren't sold, aftermarket systems can be made to look stock with Fiero exhaust tips.

PERFORMANCE PARTS
Because they were over-engineered, Fieros are ripe for engine upgrades, and a surprising number of enthusiasts take on the challenge. “Purists who want to keep a stock appearance but increase power will stroke the 2.8-Liter into a 3.4-Liter,” Todd notes. Stock 2.8-Liter V-6s also respond well to turbocharging and computer calibration upgrade chips, and larger fuel injectors, oil coolers and free-flow exhaust systems with headers and will also add power. Todd says that actual engine swaps are easy, with popular alternatives being GM's normally-aspirated or supercharged 3800 V-6 and Cadillac's 4.9-liter V-8, although Chevrolet's 3.4-liter V-6 and Cadillac's 4.6-liter Northstar V-8 add some complication but are feasible. The ubiquitous small-block Chevy V-8, in all its wildly upgradeable forms, has also successfully found a home between the Fiero's rear wheels.

CHASSIS UPGRADES
Because of its super-strong space frame, the Fiero is a great base for chassis upgrades. Spring, shock and strut rates can be upgraded for taunter handling, and stock Delco shocks can be replaced by adjustable Konis. Upgrading the brakes of a pre-1988 GT is easy; install the vented front rotors and calipers from 1988 Grand Am and the master cylinder from a full-size 1992 Chevy Blazer 4x4, or use four rear 11.25-inch rotors from a 1989-1995 Chrysler LeBaron with 1982-1992 Camaro front and 1979-1985 Eldorado, Seville or Riviera rear calipers. If you have a 1988 GT, you can re-use your stock calipers and upgrade the front rotors to the 12-inch versions from a 1988-1995 Corvette. Fit your upgraded brakes behind a set of 16- or 17-inch alloy wheels; if you don't care for aftermarket wheels, nearly any stock wheel with a 5 lug, 100-mm bolt pattern will fit a Fiero, including those from a Pontiac Grand Am or Vibe, those from a Beretta GTU, a Celica GTS or a PT Cruiser. With minimal cash and some creativity, you can make a Fiero GT into the corner-carving semi-exotic sports car of your dreams.

FOCUS POINTS
• Headlamps- Headlamp motors tend to weaken with age; the inner gear, pins and brushes will often wear, but they can sometimes be rebuilt.
• Brakes- Although the Fiero's power four-wheel discs were standard, its brakes are easily upgraded with larger, vented off-the-shelf GM or Chrysler discs.
• Coolant pipes- Careless use of jacks or lifts can damage the rocker panel-mounted pipes that carry coolant from the radiator to the engine; check for bends.
• Body panels- Although most body panels aren't reproduced, Fiero specialists carry many replacements, and bumper cover repair is feasible.
• Engine- Low oil pressure can damage the 2.8-Liter V-6, but performance upgrades and engine swaps can make Fieros into extraordinary performers.
• Interior- Dashboards and interior trim panels aren't reproduced, so restoring originals or locating nice used examples are the only choice for many owners.
Transmissions- The Getrag/Muncie 5-speed manual was specific to the Fiero, isn't reproduced, and used or reconditioned examples are becoming very pricey.

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2000RagTop
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Report this Post10-25-2005 01:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2000RagTopSend a Private Message to 2000RagTopDirect Link to This Post

2000RagTop

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Good advise from ka4nkf

#-21 Check for rust on the frame rails in the trunk....pull back the carpet in the trunk, look for rust
#-22 Check the coolant tubes that they have not been crushed by someone not knowing how to jack/raise the car

[This message has been edited by 2000RagTop (edited 10-25-2005).]

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stadt_soldat
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Report this Post10-25-2005 01:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for stadt_soldatClick Here to visit stadt_soldat's HomePageSend a Private Message to stadt_soldatDirect Link to This Post
Thanks guys! Here's a pic:

Also, how can I check the dogbone?

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PaulJK
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Report this Post10-25-2005 03:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKDirect Link to This Post
Looks beautiful but $4300 sounds high to me. ONe thing to keep in mind is that A/C repairs can be VERY costly and a lot of work. If the A/C deosn't work, you might wanna get an estimate on repairs before you buy the car if A/C is important. For $4300, it should blow cold.
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ka4nkf
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Report this Post10-25-2005 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ka4nkfSend a Private Message to ka4nkfDirect Link to This Post
That is a nice looking Fiero. If that is the orignal paint and everything checks out, Then I say try to get them to $4000.00 And buy it. Good Luck
Don
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Report this Post10-25-2005 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CC RiderSend a Private Message to CC RiderDirect Link to This Post
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/5007/fiero_osg/osg.html

[This message has been edited by CC Rider (edited 10-25-2005).]

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