how do I hunt down a short? What should I be looking for? I have a short in my turn signals and keep blowing fuses. I know people said to look at the blinker lights, but what am I looking for?

I take it I measure the voltage with one of the reading tools. I have a haynes manual with the electrical diagram in the back. Should I be comparing #'s I get to #'s that are in the manual? If so, what #'s?

I just need to get this short fixed but have never done anything regarding shorts before.

edit: saw an old thread that said that it might be the reverse lights not working. I had my dad stand behind the car while I reversed and he said they are not coming on. So going to replace the bulbs and see if that fixes the problem. I hope so.

[This message has been edited by enthashyt (edited 09-29-2005).]

quote Originally posted by enthashyt: how do I hunt down a short? What should I be looking for? I have a short in my turn signals and keep blowing fuses. I know people said to look at the blinker lights, but what am I looking for? edit: saw an old thread that said that it might be the reverse lights not working. I had my dad stand behind the car while I reversed and he said they are not coming on. So going to replace the bulbs and see if that fixes the problem. I hope so.

A blown fuse could also be a old electronic device (maybe relay or flasher) that pulling more power then it should. It can also be a connector thats corroded and isn't making a good connection. I think your on the right track find out every thing that get power from the fuse and check the condition of the wiring to them. Does the fuse blow almost instantly or when you turn something on? It you can keep the fuse from blowing for a short time check if anything else on that circut isn't working. If the fuse blows as soon as you turn something one it probably a problem with that device but it doesn't have to be.

------------------
Low 14 sec 99 Pontiac GTP, 3.2L V6 4 sp 86 Fiero GT

well, turns out that it is not the back up lights. They weren't working because the fuse is blown, but the bulbs are fine. I put another fuse in and the turn signals were working. I clicked it on right and left, no problem. I started the car, again no problem. This is all with the door open and the trunk open. i close the trunk and close the door. Click the turn signal and nothing.

Sometime in that time period it blew. I don't know if it has anything to do with closing the trunk lid or closing the driver side door. I don't have another fuse to mess with right now. Damnit. Otherwise I would replace it and then leave it clicking while I close doors and see if that has anything to do with it.

I pulled the bottom part of the dashboard cover off. I see all the wires in there(battery not connected right now). I now need to know what to look for.

The haynes manual said to check the turn signal divise. So I guess I need to figure out how to get the turn signal out of the car and check the wires on that. Going to check some more posts on here.

There's a trick you should know. "read the fuse" If it seperated slowly leaving curls or balls, then you have something pulling a little too much power a little too long. However if it left a smoke mark in the fuse casing, then you have a solid short to ground. The latter is more common. In which case trip each function once then trace and check that circuit. You've possibly got a damaged wire.

I had an ECM fuse go on an S10 years ago. Pulled the ECM and still blew fuses. Turned out a wiring harness melted against an exaust pipe.

Quick blind guess. Pull out your tail light lenses. If a lens was installed pinching a wire and you slammed the trunk lid it could make it happen.

If you want to bring it here I can show you how to trace it out, but you live a ways away.

There are 5 electrical problems. Short to ground, short to positive, open in circuit, High resistance in wire, and Low resistance. Shorts to ground are sometimes easer to find. Make a short finder with a flasher unit, use it instead of a fuse, it will temporary give power to circuit giving you enough time to un plug items to find short. If you're all out pissed and cant find the short and time is a factor with a fire extinguisher handy I have used a Heavy gauge wire instead of a fuse and look for smoke. (Not for everyone) unhook wire and look for a wire melted.. High resistance is, corrosion in wire, terminal, assembly, look for green. Short to positive is one wire touching another wire.

what is a flasher unit?

I went to advanced auto and they didn't have any of the circuit breakers there. The ones that reset after they cool down. So I bought a pack of fuses.

Here is where I am, besides annoyed:

I spent the last few hours in the dark(it is 2 am here, no garage) with a flash light pulling the steering wheel. I was thinking, maybe if I can get to the turn signal connector I can see if something is wrong there. I got all the way to where I use the compressor and I am supposed to pull that annoying pin out that holds the metal plate down. Well, couldn't get the damn ring out. The only needle nose pliers I found at the house have a small bend at the tip making them useless for fine jobs. The haynes manual said to use a small screw drive. I would like to beat whoever wrote that. If they know a secret I don't know then maybe, but using a small(one of the type you would use on glasses) screwdrive did not help at all.

So that went nowhere. Put it all back together. That took far less time than taking it apart.

So got the car all back together, replaced the blown fuse. Turned the left blinker on with the car off and doors open. Waited a while and it stayed on just fine. I then turned on the right blinker. Again, just fine. I got in the car with it blinking and started the car. Still good. Closed the door, still good. Turned the blinker off and turned the other one on. All good. Then turned the right blinker on. I made a right hand turn. All good so far. Actually, it might have been the left on at the right turn. Anyways, I make another right turn with the right blinker on. It snaps back like it is supposed to, and it goes.

I pull over, change that fuse. Blinker working again. I figure I will drive to the end of the street and turn without the blinker on. See if maybe it is the spring action that is killing it somehow. About the time I start to accelerate it blows again. I pull over. Turn car off. Change fuse. Get back in and it is working. I drive down the road and it seems all fine and dandy. I get back to my house where by the time I do it has blown.

So I change it, yet again. I am thinking, maybe it has something to do with the accererating. From a turn or straight. So I think the car is off, turn it on, all is good and fine. I slowly accelerate, all is fine. I turn the headlights on. Driving down the street switching back and forth between blinkers and I think about the time I make a turn it blows again, but not at the point of acceleration, just while driving.

I will have to get the fuses out and see what they are saying. They are on the carpet in the car.

The only other things to note of the car is that I do need another exhaust hanger for the driver side. The rubber part has ripped allowing it to hang. Dunno if that has anything to do with it. Also the drive axle, also driver's side is going to get replaced tomorrow. I was hoping to have that and the short both solved and fixed by the close of tomorrow.

The only things I can think of that have changed lately is that this started happening after letting a friend of mine use the car. She did move the steering wheel and seat(she is shorter than me). Shortly before that I had changed the battery and the positive terminal connector(it was badly corroded to the point of not working). I have the car connected to the battery terminals uptop instead of on the side, using adaptors.

Hmm...that is all I can think of. I guess I will try and take a pic of the fuses and post them here if possible. Tomorrow I guess I will go into cleaning the light bulb connectors, see if that improves anything.

Now after taking the bottom cover off to see the wires earlier I did find one brown wire that had a small nick in it. I wrapped that in electrical tape though before all the testing tonight. I guess I just need to take a picture of all the wires down there so people can see what I am seeing.

Is there any way I can use a voltometer(I think that is what it is called) to see where the electrical problem is occuring?

quote Originally posted by enthashyt: just thought of something that might be important. My hazard lights still function fine, even with the blown fuse. I will have no turn signal, but I do have hazard lights.

The hazard lights and brake lights are on on e fuse, the turn signals and back-up lights are on another fuse.

After your new descripton my new guess is that you have a back-up wire shorting someplace on the engine.

quote Originally posted by KA: There's a trick you should know. "read the fuse" If it seperated slowly leaving curls or balls, then you have something pulling a little too much power a little too long. However if it left a smoke mark in the fuse casing, then you have a solid short to ground. The latter is more common. In which case trip each function once then trace and check that circuit. You've possibly got a damaged wire. I had an ECM fuse go on an S10 years ago. Pulled the ECM and still blew fuses. Turned out a wiring harness melted against an exaust pipe.

I think it is the curls thing you mentioned. There is no smoke or burn marks inside the fuses. Then seperation points look kind of melted in a away, I think it matches your curly description. The best description I can give it is if you hold a piece of metal to a flame and it starts to kind of wither away before melting.

Yet the fuse can blow regardless of if I have the turn signal on or not. The first time it ever did it on me I was making a u-turn in the street I live on. No turn signals were being used and there was the pop with the spark from the fuse box.

Another trick: substitute a light bulb for the fuse. You can then move wires around, shake and pound on parts till the lamp glows bright. You can usually isolate the problem that way without going through boxes of fuses.

To make it easy to see the test bulb, attach it to a long piece of zip cord. Put 1/4" spade lugs on the opposite end of the wires and plug those in where the fuse would normally go.

Like Spark1 said, but go to Radio Shack & get a buzzer. That way you don't have to see the light, you can hear the buzzer.

Also!!!

Did the signals blink at the customary rate? (Neither faster or slower than usual.) If one side or the other flashes really fast, then that side has the short.

[This message has been edited by Jim Gregory (edited 10-01-2005).]

the problem with all that is I only seem to blow fuses while driving. I can't exactly do much searching while in the driver's seat. I'm not going to hang onto the outside of the car in the engine bay while someone else drives either.

Thing is that this morning when I tried figuring out where it is coming from I reved the engine up plenty and never blew a fuse. I was thinking that maybe the engine movement would do it. Yet it didn't(figure it has to move even from just reving it).

I wish it would blow while being still. That would make this a lot easier to find.+

if it is something pulling too much current could that be the turn signal switch? That is located inside the steering wheel. I bought some new needle nose pliers today so maybe I can get it all off again. Just don't want to have to go to that trouble if that is not where the problem is.

[This message has been edited by enthashyt (edited 10-01-2005).]

I don't want to start a flame war, but you should take it to someone who knows what they are doing. You will save a ton of time. Electrical work is trickey and you need to understand how to read a wiring diagram. Intermittent electrical problems can be a real pain in the ass to find. I would start by trying to recreate the problem. If the car has tilt steering, try moving the steering column back and forth, mabye the harness is being pinched. Look at the turn signal wires at the base of the column. Look for someone's butcher job - did some hack try to install an alarm, neon, radio crap and F**k up the harness?. You might want to remove the trim and carpet and follow the harness as it goes back (actually, I think it is in the console) and to the front signals. Follow the harness into the engine compartment and look for cut, pinched or melted wires. The rear frame rails get crusty on these things and a bad ground may be causing high resistance (more likely an inoperative condition than blowing fuses). Look at the harness as it goes to the bulb holders. Check the bulb sockets themselves. They are 20 years old and could be corroded, the terminals that touch the bulbs could be damaged. My fiero had issues with the front lamp sockets. The point is, you have to follow some kind of logical procedure to find the problem.

no offense taken crow. If I have to I will take it to a shop, but going to try first to do it myself. I had a good tip given that it might be shorting at the reverse switch. Being mine is a manual that would put it on the transmission, which would make sense since it only shorts out while driving. Last night I went out and took pics and found something that bothered me.

I had the car jacked up to change the drive axle since the cv joint is bad. This is the rear driver side. I notice there is this sheild like looking piece of metal that isn't bolted correctly it appears. It has two holes that I would assume are used to keep it in place somewhere, but there are no bolts in those holes. It has rubbed against a piece of metal back there causing a bad scratch. Now, on the other side of that, where I have to get under the car to see, there is a piece of metal broken it seems there. That piece of metal has a plug looking attachment to it. I read on here that the reverse switch has a brown and blue wire. I'm going to go out today and see if that is what it is. If so then that means that it is floating freely and might be why it is shorting while driving. I need to see if there is a way to fix or repair that "sheild"

I have pics but I need to get them scanned in first. I will post them once that is done.