I've been trolling around the boards and looking at the various fiero stores and whatnot.
I don't really have the tools or the funds for a full-on motor swap, and my 2.8L is still plenty good. I want to pull more power out of the 2.8L without having to go through the whole ordeal of swapping engines. Since I don't have a lift or ready access to one, engine swapping not an option for me, though I would love to get a DOHC motor under the rear decklid.

I have been contemplating doing the following:
1. Removing the intake (and finding those pesky vacuum leaks while I'm at it), and using a dremel or a file or something similar to gasket-match the intake, and open up the intake passageway. ( I don't think I can afford the Trueleo/trueflo/truelo? intake)
2. Underdrive pulleys for a few extra hp.
3. Removing the catalytic converter and replacing it with a section of straight-pipe. The rest of the exhaust system (cat-back) looks newer than the rest. the previous owner said his brother (the original owner) put a stainless steel high-performance exhaust into the car.
4. Changing the compression ratio by machining the heads, or porting the heads. (not sure if I would be able to pull the heads given their position... I think dropping the engine cradle might be involved)
5. Performance Camshaft? -- seems a bit involved, but still doable. -- If I do this, I will likely try to do roller rockers along with it, or possibly just RR's)
6. A bit pricey, but possibly junkyard turbocharging or supercharging the 2.8L pushrodder. Are there any S/C's that can be readily used with this motor? Did GM make a high-performance version of this motor that better components could be pulled off of, or supercharge a similar engine?
7. EGR & PCV delete

What would I easily be able to do without flat-out pulling the motor?
I have a basic set of tools and a jack, is there anything else I should look at doing to pull a few HP out of the motor? I've listed just the basic hop-up things one usually does to a motor, but I thought I might be missing something. From what I remember reading changing the fuel maps didn't really accomplish anything with a stock intake and stock exhaust, so I'm not sure changing the PCM's fuel maps would be worth it.
I finally checked the motor out, timing wise and whatnot, and everything seems to be in order save for the IAC and even that may be due to what I think is probably a vacuum leak at the EGR valve.

I am planning on budgeting a maximum of $1000 for basic hot-rod parts for the engine. I want to do what I can easily do myself with just basic tools.

What have you guys done and what would you recommend?
Sorry for the n00b questions, but I'm trying to learn as quickly as possible.

-Mulholland GT

[This message has been edited by Mulholland_GT_Racer (edited 09-14-2005).]

the 2.8/3.1/3.4 SUCKS for trying to get power out of. if I was to do again, I'd just go nitrous and be done. but, on to your list
1-good idea - porting/gasket matching is good
2-yes, good, and easy too
3-if your states lets ya, ya ya - pull the cat
4-yes, you can remove the heads in car
5-you will need to drop the cradle for this one.
6-turbo-the turbo used on the old ford 2.3 turbos is a junkyard favorite
7-you will need a new chip made if you remove the EGR - the PCV affects nothing, and is necesary
I've done ALOT on my car, and all with just basic tools. also, something to add to your list - something you can do while porting your heads - port your exhaust manifolds. when you have them off, you will see exactly what I mean. this is THE best free HP's there is.
anyways - I still stand by my opening line. the 60* V6 sucks, and nitrous or turbo are the only real things you can do

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1985 Fiero SE - Plain Red V6 Coupe
3.1 Crane272 MSD 4.10-4spd DarthChip Borla
D.A.M.M. - Drunks Against Mad Mothers

To do a cam you will have to drop the cradle, so do the cam, exhaust manifolds and the heads all at the same time. If you run nitrous you will need a spec clutch if you are running the stock one. Nitrous and a clutch would be your best bet. You could get nitrous, cam and clutch for $1,000.

Milling the heads gets you a little, but GM suggest you only mill the bare minimum. The real potential is in gasket-matching and polishing the heads. Gasket match the intake and exhaust ports, polish the intake ports, exhaust ports, and the bowls. Get a valve job. Your heads have a 4 angle valve seat, but 5 would be better.

Now the intake.....have it gasket matched and ported. Bigger throttle body.

The 2.8 is a paper weight, but if that's all you got then work with it. i will be swapping in a 3.4, only because I can't afford any other swap and my 2.8 knocks.

This link is to the 60* V6 Chevy service power manual...it has alot of the technical info about these motors you want/need to know. It pertains to what they did to get the most out of them in the all motor form.
http://www.60degreev6.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=19&POSTNUKESID=cfb73bbef43c6ad80f8ace6b174a09f4

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 09-14-2005).]

oye. I know that motor's worthless, but I looooove the exhaust note it currently has... sounds like a 350z, for some mysterious reason. :]

I have been on same quest for power in my 2.8 too. My first round of mods was a hypertech chip, cat by pass pipe, and under drive pully. That was absolutely worthless, and a waste of money. I could tell a very very small change in power. Round 2 of mods was polished heads, valve job, fiero store "perfrmance cam" (crane compucam), 1.6 roller tip rocker arms, ported exhaust manifolds, and MSD coil. I thought for sure this would pull some big power out of this little mouse, and it didn't really do as much as I had hoped. Right now I am trying to tune in my new turbo, and hopefully the car will make big power. I guess what i'm trying to say is skip the bolt on stuff like cam, under drive pully, or chip and go straight with a turbo or even cheaper nitrous. I read somewhere that a 2.8 can reliably take a 50hp shot of nitrous, and all the bolt ons I have together probably only make a 20 hp difference. My dad has a 2.8 with a design 1 turbo kit and his car is very quick and reliable. The 2.8 has had a turbo for 50,000 miles and he hasn't had a problem at all, and its fast enough to have a 4 car lead on a audi A4 1.8t by 3rd gear in a 4 speed.

Over all don't waste your money on cheap bolt ons.

if you do buy a turbo kit most have said get it from KFG.

You can run a 75 shot on a 2.8 just get the engine tuned for whatever shot you run.

2m6turbo - The cam you have is about equal to running octane booster. The crane compucams suck a$$. You got the heads polished, buy you need to port them too. NO chip has been found to work better than the stock chip unless you have a custom one AND some serious mods. The cat bypass doesn't do much...atleast hp wise...it allows you to have a slightly higher rpm band. Under drive pulley has been said to help with the revs and off the line...but not worth $100 from the fiero store. The only mods you did that matter are the coil and rockers. Not trying to bash you just trying to help clarify what you did to your motor and why there were no huge gains.

Word to the wise the fiero store rapes people on the price. The mark up is pathetic. Do a search before you buy something...some many people buy $hit then come on here and say it sucks when Like 50 ppl have already confirmed that.

I still think a real cam (COMP CAM 260) some nitrous and a spec clutch.

I really wish peope would quit digging on the Fiero Store... yes some of the prices are high some are comparable and some parts are almost just impossible to find any where else.

so the chip is a waste of money? iv been looking at doing it..

I've just finished another turbo build. The system is available for sale if interested.

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: The 2.8 is a paper weight, but if that's all you got then work with it. i will be swapping in a 3.4, only because I can't afford any other swap and my 2.8 knocks.

I agree, the 2.8 is a 20 year old engine, yes you can squeeze some extra performance out of it, but I can't figure out why people even try. The 3.4 pushrod probably gives you the best bang for your buck if money is tight. Next the 3800 II is probably your best bet for making serious reliable power.

quote Originally posted by 2m6turbo: I have been on same quest for power in my 2.8 too. My first round of mods was a hypertech chip, cat by pass pipe, and under drive pully. That was absolutely worthless, and a waste of money. I could tell a very very small change in power. Round 2 of mods was polished heads, valve job, fiero store "perfrmance cam" (crane compucam), 1.6 roller tip rocker arms, ported exhaust manifolds, and MSD coil. I thought for sure this would pull some big power out of this little mouse, and it didn't really do as much as I had hoped. Right now I am trying to tune in my new turbo, and hopefully the car will make big power. I guess what i'm trying to say is skip the bolt on stuff like cam, under drive pully, or chip and go straight with a turbo or even cheaper nitrous. I read somewhere that a 2.8 can reliably take a 50hp shot of nitrous, and all the bolt ons I have together probably only make a 20 hp difference. My dad has a 2.8 with a design 1 turbo kit and his car is very quick and reliable. The 2.8 has had a turbo for 50,000 miles and he hasn't had a problem at all, and its fast enough to have a 4 car lead on a audi A4 1.8t by 3rd gear in a 4 speed. Over all don't waste your money on cheap bolt ons.

Thanks for the input. Sounds like my mods are going to be a trueleo intake/chip, and a turbocharger. How much is your setup running you?

The most economical mod (for a fairly low mileage 60°V6) would be nitrous in my opinion.

I bought a highly modded 3.4 from a fellow forum member (Oreif). I installed it in my 87 5spd. This motor has full porting, holley 390cfm carb, exhaust headers, and a high lift cam. Don't get me wrong, it is a blast to drive with the ~220hp, 240tq (at flywheel, the amount of power he pulled from this motor is very impressive...my hat is off to him), but I'm still not satisfied (is anyone ever satisfied with the output of their motor ). I've turned to nitrous for that extra punch.

If I was in your shoes I would do it economically. Run a 50-75hp shot of N2O and you get a great boost cheaply. You can get a good N2O kit for about $400. Get a wet kit (sprays both gas and nitrous, not just nitrous by itself) to be safe. A lean condition (not enough fuel, too much nitrous) would grenade the motor.

You say your motor is "plenty good". I ask, how many miles are on it? If under ~60,000 I would suggest a 50-75hp shot of nitrous. Have it dyno tuned and have a custom chip burnt to be safe if you go N2O. Heck, some people have run N2O on high mileage 2.8's without a problem.

good luck with your fiero

Dave

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 09-14-2005).]

I personally was looking into moddin the 2.8 but realized it was a waste of money so i have decided to upgrade stuff that i will keep once i get the cash for an engine i really want. I put money to the side for this swap, i have done koni shocks struts short shifter and about to by rims and 12 in rotors upgrade. Just my two cents -austin

quote Originally posted by Vendetta: I personally was looking into moddin the 2.8 but realized it was a waste of money so i have decided to upgrade stuff that i will keep once i get the cash for an engine i really want. I put money to the side for this swap, i have done koni shocks struts short shifter and about to by rims and 12 in rotors upgrade. Just my two cents -austin

my bet is that you're after a 3800SC or 3.4DOHC? those are the best bang for the buck IMO..the 3800SC being the better of the two IMO

quote Originally posted by carbon: I really wish peope would quit digging on the Fiero Store... yes some of the prices are high some are comparable and some parts are almost just impossible to find any where else.

The reason I go to them as a last resort is because ALOT of the stuff they sell summit has for almost HALF the price. Even their "impossible to find" stuff can be had on other fiero sites for cheaper. $100 for a pulley and belt or go to ASP...2 pulleys for less then that.

I have done cams, pulleys, headers, porting, etc. etc. and even a 3.4. Then I added nitrous to my stock 117k miles 2.8. That is the only one that added a huge difference with just a 75hp shot. 0-60 dropped from 8s to 6.2s. Also $1000 on 2.8 hot rods parts will get you nowhere near close to the performance of a nitrous kit. If you want power all the time save your money and do a SC3800 or good SBC. For best bang and fun winning races go nitrous

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Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 09-15-2005).]

The kind of races I need to win are SCCA races, and other than that, my passion is canyon-carving.
I don't really dig on drag racing, but freeway racing is a lot of fun, but I don't think this is the car for that. My last car did 140 or so on the 210 Freeway in SoCal, with this car's gear ratios I don't think I could get the car going that fast stock.

I think the Trueleo intake looks good for a decent amount of power, but it depends on cost.
Ideally, I'd like to put together a custom junkyard turbocharger or supercharger setup and run low boost and keep the rest of my motor stock, save for maybe minor EFI modifications.

The motor has 140k on it, but it's been very well taken care of up to this point, and I've been doing the basic maintainance on it so it's doing pretty good. Compression all came up okay, and everything else turned out great.

-Mulholland GT

1. Intake porting good idea, but time consuming and not a great return without investing in a ported throttle body
2. Underdrive pulley, another good idea but return is pretty much limited to 4-5 hp.
3. Cat removal, another good idea
4. Machining the heads, not a good idea for your budget. machine shop time is expensive and when it's apart, you will be amazed how many parts you'll buy
5. Cam, again, not a good idea for your budget. You have to drop the engine cradle to do this, and with your mileage a new cam really needs to be accompanied by some valve work.
6. Junkyard turbo, good idea if you have the brains and the time. I have a friend who did up a Volvo turbo, home brew and it worked out. Definitely not for the faint of heart and needs alot of knowledge.
7. EGR is a PITA but your ECM likes it, and the PCV is probably a good thing to keep.

What you missed.

Porting the exhaust manifold 6-8 hp.
Getting your crossover Y reamed out. (It is as bad as the exhaust manifold)
Making sure your electricals are perfect.
Adding roller tipped 1.6 rockers - the poorman's cam upgrade.
Porting your heads - big gains.

Arn

PM sent.

I am looking to swap to a stock 2.8 and mod it, but if the returns ain't worth it I think i will save my money for a bigger better swap, I like threads like these that open your eyes before you drop 5k or more onto a project

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86 Pontiac Fiero SE aka "STEALTH FX""