Hey people I'm thinking about putting some Polyurethane Front and Rear Control Arm bushings on my Fiero from summitracing. Anyone else here do this and can explain to me how to do it, before I buy it? I don't want to get in over my head here, I hear you have to burn the old ones off with a torch?

Rear Poly Bushings
Front Poly Bushings

Also anything I should know before I attempt this? I want my car to handle better for the Run for the Hills.

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I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so I can spread

Corectomundo sir.

Or at least that is how I got mine out. Be certain to burn them out in an open area, over a non flamable surface (which you do not mind having ruined). I did mine over a bucket of sand to catch the melting/flaming globs of burning rubber as it driped down.

Than I cleaned the insides with a brake hone after a good general clean-up.

Mine slid right in, but I hear that freezing the poly for a while will allow them to become a slip fit if the do not do so on there own.

Good luck & POST PICS!!

John

yeah i am interested cause i wanna put some in my fiero.

Here's a list I made when I put polyurethanes on my car. Don't know if it's of any use or if it's the "right" way but it worked for me.

As always pay attention to which nut, bolt and washer that goes where how they're mounted. Some washers are intended to be mounted in a specific direction.
A good thing is to spray everything with penetrating oil a few hours before.

FRONT
- Loosen the wheel studs.
- Jack up the front of the car 3 inches on the middle of the cross member. Then put stands under the front cross member and remove the jack.
- Remove the wheel studs and remove the wheel.
- Remove lower shock bolt and nut and then the two upper bolts. Remove shock.
- Using a punch make a mark in the middle of the rivet holding the brake hose. Then drill out the rivet using a 6 mm drill bit.
- Remove the two bolts holding the brake line to the chassis, one horizontal and one vertical.
- Remove the two caliper torx bolts. Remove the caliper. And place it out of the way but make sure you don’t kink the hose or the line!
- Remove the sway bar end link nut while holding the bolt under the lower control arm. Pull out the bolt.
- Remove the security pin from the tie rod end link then loosen the castellated nut a few millimeters until it's flat with the bolt.
- Remove the security pin from the upper and lower ball joint and loosen the castellated nut a few millimeters. Do not remove them!
- Using a blowtorch heat up the lower balljoint stud and a little part of the spindle. Make sure the flame doesn’t get to close to the rubber boot.
- Using an extension and a mallet, give the top of the lower ball joint bolt a punch and it should brake loose. If not you should use a ball joint fork (probably ruins the rubber) or Rodney Dickmans balljoint separator tool.
- Heat up the tie rod bolt and a little part of the spindle and give it a go with a hammer, it should brake loose pretty easy. Don’t hit it too hard, you might break the spindle. Bend the tie rod out of the way
- Loosen the 2 lower control arm bolts that hold the control arm to the car. Just loosen them but keep the nuts on. The front bolt can be hard to reach because of the steering pinion. Turn the steering wheel all the way to the left to gain access to the bolt.
- Use a rope or a chain to secure the spring to the lower control arm so it doesn’t fly away.
- Put a jack under the lower control arm and lift the arm until you relieve the tension on the lower ball joint nut. Remove the nut and slowly lower the jack until the lower control arm hangs free and the tension of the spring is gone.
- Remove rope or chain and pull and turn the spring straight down to remove it.
- Heat up the upper ball joint bolt and part of the spindle and hit the upper ball joint bolt with a hammer until it brakes loose or use fork/balljoint separator tool. Remove the entire spindle from the car.
-Undo the lower control arm bolts and remove the lower control arm.
- Remove the nut on the upper control arm bolt and pull the bolt to the front of the car. Normally the bolt would have interfered with the brake line bracket but we removed this earlier on. Remove the upper control arm.
- Burn out the old bushingst using a torch, don't be afraid , just heat up the sleeve first and then rubber. Try pushing them out when they're still very hot, it makes it a little easier.
- Clean out the sleeves so there's no rubber left.
- Putting in the new polys is pretty easy. I used teflon spray on the outside of the new bushings and a vice to push them in. Put in the poly first, lubricate then push in the pin. Pretty straight forward.

EDIT: added some

[This message has been edited by Intel (edited 08-27-2005).]

i heard a good trick for removing junk rubber ones
get a pc of all thread like 2-3' so you can hold on to it, and a big washer with a nut for the all thread, place the all theread through the metal sleve, with the washer on the side by the nut, have the washer as big as possibly but not too big that it wont fit through the bushing opening, start burning them, then pull them out while on fire, theyll pop right out
then the burn time is drastically reduiced, and they should come out pretty easily and cleen
saves on beating them out and all the time to let them burn all the way out

[This message has been edited by $Rich$ (edited 08-27-2005).]

I put full poly bushings in my 88' coupe two years ago and they are great. However they do give you more feel, in other words they will beat the snot out of you on rough roads. Freezing the bushings for half a day will help the install portion. They go pretty easy, and the ones that don't can be helped a bit with a C-clamp.

I've heard that some folks have put in grease fittings to shoot some lube, but I don't think the outer portion of the poly is what you want greased. If you can come up with some way to shoot some grease and have it reach the inside where the pivot bolt is you would be well ahead of me.

Just my .02 cents
88Ironduke

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Pilots with out maintainers are just pedestrians with a cool jacket and sunglasses.
I.Y.A.M.Y.A.S.

Thanks people, sounds like a lot of work though. I'm thinking of doing it next weekend (tomorrow I'm gonna fix the TCC lockup solenoid).

Tinton, there's an exhaustive article about this in the Ogre's cave. He covers everything. I just removed the rubber ones from my cradle with a ball joint press and 1/2" impact gun. It worked better (I think) than burning them would have, but it did leave bits & pieces that need to be scraped or burned out. I haven't looked to see if I can do that on the CAs yet though.

Since I'm going with a V8, I'm putting poly on everything in the back, but I think I'm gonna leave the front alone for now and see how it rides. I suspect that putting poly on the front will lead to severe understeer. I'm also putting the Eibach pros/Konis on it, and I'll put the sway bar on the rear, but like I said, I'm gonna leave the front alone and see how it rides at first.

Just my $.02.

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86 Fiero GT
-Stage eleventy billion...

04 Mustang Cobra
-K&N FIPK (first mod, woo-hoo!)

I just checked out Ogre's Cave. Anybody have any issues with the polyurethane bushings squeaking a lot? I just want to increase the handling of my car and still drive it on the street, I don't want it to squeak all the time. I was going to put poly on the front control arms and in the rear (not the cradle or the engine or tranny mounts), anyone have any handling issues with that? BTW anyone know where I can get poly for my swaybars?

The supposed improvement in handling when comparing poly to rubber on an 88GT is negligible as far as I'm concerned - I'm just not interested in "feeling" every cigarette butt that I drive over. I just had all my one year old poly replaced with rubber. The ride with poly was far too harsh for my taste - if you live in an area with bad roads - stick to rubber, you'll be glad you did.

Oh, and while I'm on the subject of poly did I mention the unrelenting squeaking that emanates from poly bushings? This is not a function of temperature changes (cold weather yada, yada yada) - it will haunt you all year round. If you must go "poly" then make sure you either buy them with greaseable fittings or have them retrofitted - no amount of competent pre-lubing will prevent poly from squeaking. And don't bother telling me to turn up my stereo.

Rant mode off. Happy with rubber.

[This message has been edited by Garethster (edited 08-28-2005).]

I dunno why everyone cries about squeaking with poly. I've done 2 cars complete with poly now and I have yet to hear 1 squeak. I've been driving one for over a year daily driving now and the other for 1 month.

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Christian Thomas
87 Pontiac Fiero GT Burgandy/Silver 5.7L ZZ4 5spd
301rwhp/345rwtq

Next Mod: Not sure yet

I've done poly just on my front control arms. No handling problems at all. Even drove it around the racetrack at Waterford Hills that way.
The 88 cradle is solid mounted (only the earlier cars have a rubber mounted cradle), so that's a set you don't need to bother with.
The only soft bushings in the rear are the long locating links that go from the bottom of the knuckle to the front of the cradle. The lateral and toe links (the short ones that stick straight out from the cradle) are fairly hard plastic, at least on mine.
Personally, I would not replace the locating links with poly. I can explain this opinion if anyone cares.
The front and rear swaybar bracket bushings, where they bolt to the frame, are also soft rubber. I left mine as they were. I haven't had any trouble with squeaking, but I silicone lubed the kwrap out of the inner sleeves when I installed my bushings.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-28-2005).]

Raydar I care about your opinion on putting poly on the locating links.

The locating links control forward and backward movement of the knuckle. The lateral loads imposed in a turn don't really exert that much fore and aft pressure, I don't think. Even if they did, the forces would tend to just move the wheel forward or backward in a straight line, but the alignment would be fairly well maintained.
The rubber allows the wheel to deflect backwards when you hit a pothole. Solid poly would make the wheel resist deflection and impart those shock loads into the rest of the car.

It's a tradeoff, though. I think the smoother ride in this case is worth the extra deflection that is allowed. I don't think the benefits of using poly in those arms is worth the sacrifice in ride quality, for a street car. OTOH, If you're on a smooth racetrack, driving at the limit, then it's probably worth it.
As I mentioned before, the lateral and toe links already have fairly hard bushings. IMHO, they don't need to be swapped unless they are worn or broken.

The front is a different story. If the control arms deflect, all sorts of ugliness happens to the alignment.

I'm sure that others will argue this, but it's just my opinion. YMMV.

FWIW, the Formula that I'm working on will be lowered in the front like my coupe, but it *won't* be getting poly, anywhere.
At least for a while.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: I just checked out Ogre's Cave. Anybody have any issues with the polyurethane bushings squeaking a lot? I just want to increase the handling of my car and still drive it on the street, I don't want it to squeak all the time. I was going to put poly on the front control arms and in the rear (not the cradle or the engine or tranny mounts), anyone have any handling issues with that? BTW anyone know where I can get poly for my swaybars?

if you adequately pre-lube EVERYHING, and i mean everything, with the teflon grease, then no, they wont squeek,, at least, mine dont.. i lubed every part of the bushing though, the outsideand inside of the poly bushing itself, the inside and outside of the inner metal sleeve, and even the surface of the inside of the outer metal sleve it was sliding into. I also lubed the **** out of the slot where the control arm fits back into.. the bushings were so slippery , i had a hard time getting them to go into the metal sleeves on the control arms. Ot was worth it though, no squeeking. yes, the ride is harsher, but if you have high end shocks/struts, its not so bad..

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Anybody have any issues with the polyurethane bushings squeaking a lot?

Yes, but it was installer-induced. Not sure what I was thinking when I installed the zerk fittings on my front UCAs, but there's no way in hell that I can freshen the grease in them without disassembling the front suspension. Zerk fittings on the LCAs & stabilizer bar pillows are all easily accessable however, and I give them a shot of grease as part of a normal lube job now. Only the front UCAs make any noticable noise.

quote I just want to increase the handling of my car and still drive it on the street, I don't want it to squeak all the time.

Whether you'll like the difference between poly & rubber is an entirely personal thing. I like it. Others who drive the same roads as I do in their Fieros don't. YMMV.

quote I was going to put poly on the front control arms and in the rear (not the cradle or the engine or tranny mounts), anyone have any handling issues with that?

Consider replacing the cradle mounts with either poly or aluminum. The cradle is also the lower mounting point for the rear suspension, and achieving optimum handling will be impossible without first preventing the thing from shifting under stress.

quote BTW anyone know where I can get poly for my swaybars?

Same place you posted links to earlier (Summit Racing), or the Fiero Store. Prothane has a "total" kit which covers all four corners plus the stabilizer bar. Last time I looked (a couple of years ago now) it wasn't listed in Summit's online catalog--had to phone them to order it.

Dguy where you get those zerk poly bushing from?

Hey, just an FYI, summit sells a full kit that had all the arm bushings, dust boots, connecting rod, and frot swaybar for like 78 bucks... much better deal then getting just the front and back arm bushings.

I'm doing this to my car right now... hope your bolts arn't as rusty as mine were

Edit... part number was PTP-7-2034 for mine.. 86GT, red bushings

[This message has been edited by B_Jr21 (edited 08-29-2005).]

My red car has all poly since 1999. No sqeaks at all. I have found the most noticeable difference to be the sway bar (end links and brackets). My yellow car got front polly a month ago. You can press them in easily with a big C-clamp or a big bench press. Not too much force required. We burned the front 8 pieces in about 1.5 hours with a sinlge torch.

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Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: Dguy where you get those zerk poly bushing from?

Prothane's Total kit + drill + tap.

I installed the bushings in the outer sleeve dry, then chose a location on the outer sleeve which I could access with the suspension re-assembled & drilled a hole through to the inner sleeve. Tapped the hole, thoroughly cleaned out any poly and/or metal shavings left behind, and installed the grease fitting. Nothing to it.

the zerk greese fittings can be purchased at most hardware stores - I got mine from ace

first you run the drill bit around the rubber to remove the old rubber from the metal sleeve that must be retained
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/kohburn/Cam_0452.jpg

then you press your poly in with grease and
drill through just the sleeve with the correct drill bit for the size fitting thread you purchased
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/kohburn/Cam_0453.jpg

then drill all the way through the first side of the bushing and through both sides of the inner metal sleeve with a 1/8" bit and blow the shavings out
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/kohburn/Cam_0455.jpg

install fitting
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/kohburn/Cam_0459.jpg

install arm and grease
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v435/kohburn/Cam_0461.jpg

this method has always worked well for me and has a few side benefits - for example the pivot bolts have never rusted to the inner sleeve due to being lubed - makes for much easier maintanance later down the road

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 08-29-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: this method has always worked well for me and has a few side benefits - for example the pivot bolts have never rusted to the inner sleeve due to being lubed - makes for much easier maintanance later down the road

Ha... I was about to ask you why you drilled through the inner sleeve, but apparently you're precognitive.

I removed the lower control arms from one of my cars today (rear). Just FYI, it's 18mm. Out of the car that's easy to fugre out, but when you are working with a cradle that is in the car and a bolt with 20 years of funk on it, it'll drive you nuts. Especially if you have cheap tools. 16 and 18mm are commonly skipped sizes in cheap sets. God save you if you break one of the bolts. I did, and It'd be a real pain in the ass to get the broken bolt out with the cradle in the car. Took me 10 to 15 min with it on sawhorses.