Unless you like having $2.50-$300 a gallon fuel just vanishing from you tank, don't do this. The evap systems saves gallons over time.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurasic Park)
I was told by "someone" that somebody doing this could just put a filter on the end of that line that you are speaking of.
What he said.
If you plug the line you'll draw a vacuum in the gas tank. If you must remove the evap canistor put a filter at the end of the line so you don't suck in dirt.
So would removing the evap system cause problems. Exactly what do I remove? Where do I put the filter? Will lose gas mileage? Gain any performance?
Removing the evap system will not gain you any performance at all, not even 1/1000 of a horsepower. Removing it will cause your car to smell like gas because of all the gasoline fumes that will leak out into your engine compartment, gas that cost a whole lot nowadays. Though you probably won't get a measureable increase in gas mileage by leaving it on, it wouldn't surprise me if you evaporated a few gallons of gas every year that without an evap system would just blow away in the breeze.
The evap system is a total win-win emission control, there's absolutely nothing to be gained by removing it.
Ok. Answer this please. I understand the emissions part of this, as well as the undesirable fume accumulation in the 'people' compartment. If you leave the evap system in place, how is this preventing any gasoline from evaporating? Isn't evaporation still taking place? Aren't the evaporated fuel vapors(Gallons over a period of time?) just being pulled into the charcoal canister instead of being released into the air? It seems to me the evap system isn't preventing evaporation, just masking, treating, or containing the undesirable effects of it.
Ok. Answer this please. I understand the emissions part of this, as well as the undesirable fume accumulation in the 'people' compartment. If you leave the evap system in place, how is this preventing any gasoline from evaporating? Isn't evaporation still taking place? Aren't the evaporated fuel vapors(Gallons over a period of time?) just being pulled into the charcoal canister instead of being released into the air? It seems to me the evap system isn't preventing evaporation, just masking, treating, or containing the undesirable effects of it.
Gus, the system will "saturate" with fuel vapor--vapor will build up to a point that no more fuel evaporates--even with the charcoal canister. All the canister does is provide a "storage facility" for vapors between times that the engine is run.
Without this system, fuel vapor just escapes into the air.
Think of it like humidity; when you sweat in humid air, the sweat doesn't evaporate as quickly as when you sweat in dry air.
I do not have evap on mine and no gas smell. the canister i had was busted so i just deleted it. Had to replace the sensor with a 10 watt 500 ohm resistor to keep check enginee light off but been that way over 2 years no probs never smell gas i just tucked the hose to the outside of the engine bay.
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87 GT series 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft) 86 GT Archie F40 Style Body kit SBC / 5sp
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12:11 AM
PFF
System Bot
Capt Fiero Member
Posts: 7657 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2000
I removed mine a few years ago and all related vacumme lines to it, I simply put a rubber hose with a U on it. With the evap system gone and and removeing a lot of other un-needed vacume lines. It really cleans up the 2.8 engine bay.
------------------ 85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com
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12:24 AM
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5922 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
Jazzman is 100% correct in his post. To go a bit further, if you remove all EVAP related hardware from your vehicle you can cause one of two situations:
1) Leaving the system vented to atmosphere could result in raw gas fumes to escape from the tank which can be annoying or even dangerous.
2) Plugging the EVAP system can cause pressure to build in the fuel tank on those hot days.
Remember when the engine is running, the fuel is constantly getting circulated thru the fuel rail / injector(s) on the engine which heats it up. Heated fuel returns to the tank and raises the fuel temp in the tank which causes increase evaporation.
Like Jazz said, removing the EVAP system isn't going to help you any but could lead to problems.
------------------ power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely. Custom Computer Tuning | Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com
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12:58 AM
watts Member
Posts: 3256 From: Coaldale, AB, Canada Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by jb1: I do not have evap on mine and no gas smell. the canister i had was busted so i just deleted it. Had to replace the sensor with a 10 watt 500 ohm resistor to keep check enginee light off but been that way over 2 years no probs never smell gas i just tucked the hose to the outside of the engine bay.
Umm... there are no sensors on the evap system.
Did you stick a resistor in place of your IAT probe? (bad bad bad)
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09:45 AM
FierOmar Member
Posts: 1646 From: Glendale, California, USA Registered: Dec 2001
Jazzman is 100% correct in his post. To go a bit further, if you remove all EVAP related hardware from your vehicle you can cause one of two situations:
1) Leaving the system vented to atmosphere could result in raw gas fumes to escape from the tank which can be annoying or even dangerous.
2) Plugging the EVAP system can cause pressure to build in the fuel tank on those hot days.
Remember when the engine is running, the fuel is constantly getting circulated thru the fuel rail / injector(s) on the engine which heats it up. Heated fuel returns to the tank and raises the fuel temp in the tank which causes increase evaporation.
So then, as I understand, changing to a carb eliminates the need for the tank. Even less important if the tank is never 100% filled?
------------------ FierOmar
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10:22 AM
jb1 Member
Posts: 2146 From: Tullahoma, Tennessee Registered: May 2003
Look at jb1's sig--not sure if he was talking about his SBC or the 3800, but IIRC the 3800 uses an electronicly actuated cannister purge valve instead of vacuum.
[This message has been edited by dguy (edited 08-18-2005).]
Fumes don't get absorbed into the charcoal. The vapor clings to the surface of it. This is important and why the canister works at all. Also, as I remember the canister uses "activated" charcoal what is not the same as the stuff in your grill.
The canister carbon has an insane amount of surface area and will trap a large amount of fumes before allowing anything thru. It's not the so much volume of carbon but the surface area that is a factor and why the carbon is ground the size it is. The particle size sets both the surface area and how air can flow thru durring purge.
When the purge valve opens... The engine glups some air thru the canister and that litteraly knocks the fumes off the carbon carrying them to the engine. (Just when the valve functions varies by model/year.)
Fiero ECM doesn't know anything about EVAP. Many PCM thru the 90's controlled the EVAP purge valve but had little other info. Newer cars have active testing of the fuel system that will trip DTC in the PCM if you even leave the gas cap loose.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 08-18-2005).]
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06:59 PM
jb1 Member
Posts: 2146 From: Tullahoma, Tennessee Registered: May 2003
Look at jb1's sig--not sure if he was talking about his SBC or the 3800, but IIRC the 3800 uses an electronicly actuated cannister purge valve instead of vacuum.
thanx dguy , i started thinking i was loosing my mind, it has been so long since swap was done I could not remember if it was from factory 2.8 or in harness with 3800.
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87 GT series 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft) 86 GT Archie F40 Style Body kit SBC / 5sp
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11:53 PM
Aug 19th, 2005
watts Member
Posts: 3256 From: Coaldale, AB, Canada Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by dguy: Look at jb1's sig--not sure if he was talking about his SBC or the 3800, but IIRC the 3800 uses an electronicly actuated cannister purge valve instead of vacuum.
Wasn't looking at jb1's sig, as the thread was centered around Ken_86GT's car.
Fiero evap systems have no electronics. Some others do.
So what are the effects if I just remove the caister and let the tube release the gas into the air? Does it matter where the can is located...can I move it?
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12:20 AM
PFF
System Bot
dguy Member
Posts: 2416 From: Beckwith Township, ON, Canada Registered: Jan 2003
So what are the effects if I just remove the caister and let the tube release the gas into the air?
Your car perpetually smells like it has a fuel leak, especially on hot days during the summer. Depending upon where the fumes collect, it also may present a fire hazard.
quote
Does it matter where the can is located...can I move it?
Yes you can move it, but it needs to be the highest point in the fuel system to work properly (i.e. above the filler neck)..
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09:28 AM
JacobHaley Member
Posts: 269 From: Columbus, OH Registered: Feb 2003
I have a question about the two ports on the top of the can. I have a v8 in my car and those two ports are just open to air. on hot days I smell gas very strongly from that area and i'm assuming that those ports need to be plugged into something. according to the diagram on the back of my deck lid, those ports go to engine vaccuum. can I just run a vaccuum line over there or does it matter where they get plugged in? any suggestions?
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10:53 AM
watts Member
Posts: 3256 From: Coaldale, AB, Canada Registered: Aug 2001
IIRC, one goes to a ported vac' source, the other is constant.
The ported one act like a switch, so the system isn't sucking the vapours out at idle (which would make the car run funny). When you're on the throttle, it opens up the valve in the evap canister, and the engine sucks back the vapour & fumes.
