I read somewhere that small block chevy camshaft bolts can be used on a 3800 with a machined Camaro flywheel. Will this work? What about v6 camaro flywheel bolts? Also, what are the torque specs for the bolts?

Thanks

SBC bolts will NOT work in the 3800 Series 2. The 3800 Series 2 requires 8 - 5/16" course-thread grade L9 bolts. You can get them directly from GM, but they are pricy: GM p/n: 24505092. You can NOT use the auto-flexplate bolts with the camaro/firebird flywheel because they are too short.

Torque spec is 11 ft/lb + 50 deg.

These bolts are torque-to-yeild, which means they are NOT REUSABLE, and must be REPLACED after removal.

------------------
power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Custom Computer Tuning | Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 08-10-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: SBC bolts will NOT work in the 3800 Series 2. The 3800 Series 2 requires 8 - 5/16" course-thread grade L9 bolts. You can get them directly from GM, but they are pricy: GM p/n: 24505092. You can NOT use the auto-flexplate bolts with the camaro/firebird flywheel because they are too short. Torque spec is 11 ft/lb + 50 deg. These bolts are torque-to-yeild, which means they are NOT REUSABLE, and must be REPLACED after removal.

In regards to installing and torqueing flywheel bolts... what is generally regarded as the "proper" way to hold the cranksahft from spinning?

at only 11-17 ft-lbs, you shouldn't have to worry about the engine turning.

bump so i can save in my favorites... sorry

Whoa guys, hang on a min.

For one, I think he ment that camshaft bolts for a SBC (I assume he means ARP) have the correct thin head, pitch, and strength to be used to hold on a 3800 flywheel. I personally would be a little wary about using a non ARP bolt for such a critical task unless it was engineered by GM just for the application. The ARP parts should be plenty strong, especially the top grade pieces.

As for 11-17 foot lbs, that's BEFORE you torque it another 50 degrees. Depending on bolt pitch, I'd bet that it's well over 100 or even 150 ft lbs when done. I thought (possibly incorrectly) that using a flywheel holder is SOP when it comes to torquing the bolts down. Big problem is that ARP bolts generally aren't torque to yield, and saying that you're using bolts designed for SBC camshaft use, the torque specs are probably not right unless they're tuned for maximum clamp force without permanent deformation, in which case that's as good as you get.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: SBC bolts will NOT work in the 3800 Series 2. The 3800 Series 2 requires 8 - 5/16" course-thread grade L9 bolts. You can get them directly from GM, but they are pricy: GM p/n: 24505092. You can NOT use the auto-flexplate bolts with the camaro/firebird flywheel because they are too short. Torque spec is 11 ft/lb + 50 deg. These bolts are torque-to-yeild, which means they are NOT REUSABLE, and must be REPLACED after removal.

I used the flexplate bolts and they had plenty of inserted thread. You're saying this is wrong? (I also used red loc-tite)

Edit: I used the flexplate bolts that were on the original motor, out of the park ave ultra.

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 10-03-2005).]

quote Originally posted by RandomTask: I used the flexplate bolts and they had plenty of inserted thread. You're saying this is wrong? (I also used red loc-tite) Edit: I used the flexplate bolts that were on the original motor, out of the park ave ultra.

The manual trans 3800-spec flywheel bolts are about 1/4" longer than their auto-flexplate counterparts. While they may hold the flywheel on, there is a good chance they might fail, especially since these are torque-to-yeild, ONE TIME USE ONLY bolts! If you don't mind the risk, its up to you if you want to use them, but I wouldn't.

As far as the correct way to hold the flywheel from turning during torquing, I usually have an assistant hold the crankshaft via the front balancer bolt using a long break-over bar. If an assistant isn't available, shove a rod or screwdriver thru one of the clutch pressure plate bolt holes in the flywheel so it interferes with the turning of the flywheel.

OEM SBC camshaft bolts are only grade 5. Most aftermarket ones are grade 8. The ARP bolts that places like INTENSE sells work but people using them have reported issues with them coming loose even when red loctite was used! I have never had any problems when using the OEM 3800 manual trans flexplate bolts.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 10-04-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: The manual trans 3800-spec flywheel bolts are about 1/4" longer than their auto-flexplate counterparts. While they may hold the flywheel on, there is a good chance they might fail, especially since these are torque-to-yeild, ONE TIME USE ONLY bolts! If you don't mind the risk, its up to you if you want to use them, but I wouldn't. As far as the correct way to hold the flywheel from turning during torquing, I usually have an assistant hold the crankshaft via the front balancer bolt using a long break-over bar. If an assistant isn't available, shove a rod or screwdriver thru one of the clutch pressure plate bolt holes in the flywheel so it interferes with the turning of the flywheel. OEM SBC camshaft bolts are only grade 5. Most aftermarket ones are grade 8. The ARP bolts that places like INTENSE sells work but people using them have reported issues with them coming loose even when red loctite was used! I have never had any problems when using the OEM 3800 manual trans flexplate bolts.

What is the length of the flywheel to crank bolts that are used for the 5 speed swap and can you use allen head bolts instead of hex head? I know the size of them are 5/16 course thread, grade 8, need 8 of them but thats the length?

And since this will be Archived, what is the correct bolt needed to hold the P/P onto the flywheel?

[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 10-04-2005).]

Darth Fiero is correct in advising against reusing 3800 flywheel bolts. In many tests I have conducted in the plant they have failed on the second or third retightening. The true spec reads
permanently elongated .002-.012, This is accomplished in the factory with 15 newton metres + 50 degrees which will result in a torque of approx 40-50 newton metres. On the auto flexplate our repair people just clamp on a set of vice grips and let them rest on the starter pad. Of course at this point the block is upside down.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: I have never had any problems when using the OEM 3800 manual trans flexplate bolts.

Lost me then... So i should use the 3800 Manual Camaro Trans Flywheel Bolts, OR the Buick Riviera Auto Flexplate bolts?!? the way you made that statement above confused me.

I kinda get the willies about using SBC Camshaft bolts for my flywheel... i didnt know what those were the part number for. Knowing this i am staying AWAY from them now... Maybe the ARP grade 8s but grade 5 is craziness!

Ok i got the SBC camshaft bolts... But, they have a pretty tall head and its 12 point.... Will these ACTUALLY work? They dont appear to be much longer then the Flexplate bolts might be (dont know what they look like cause dont have flex plate off yet) any opinion?

bump...

no never mind im a TOTAL moron... we wont discuss WHY.. but i think the cam shaft bolts will be just fine

[This message has been edited by The Fieromaster (edited 10-09-2005).]