A while back, I had a post on here about a "smoking" problem my car has. After driving for a while and the engine oil is warmed up, white smoke would start to come out of the passenger side vent. Unfortunately this could be caused by many things on a Fiero. But it seems that I got it nailed. Apparently, when I'm driving, the oil "splashes" around and comes up and out of the front crank seal. As it comes out, the oil hits the belt and gets thrown up onto the engine block and/or manifolds, which causes the "smoking".

So now that I know that, I just need the tools and know how to change the seal. I'm not too sure if my standard tools are enough, and even then, I don't have a clue as to the best way to change it. If someone would be willing to let me come over and walk me through it, it would be greatly appreciated. All you have to do is sit back with a cold one in ya hand and tell me what to do. I'm not afraid of the work, just don't know what I'm doing.

I live on the south side of Chicago so the closer the better. But the car can be driven some distance. It's just a little scary when you look in your rear view and white smoke is bellowing out behind you.

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BLADE

'86SE
Engine rblt by Jasper
Hypertech Chip
Low-temp Fan Switch
Low-temp Thermostat
Grand Am rear brakes
215/45-17 front, 235/45-17 rear Falken Ziex ZE-502
Kenwood D-Mask Head Unit
Kenwood 859 5-ch Amp
Pioneer 4x10
Kenwood 4x6 plates
Rockford Fosgate 10" HE-2

its not to bad of a job.
the only special tool you will need is a harmonic balancer puller, which you can rent free at major auto parts stores.
basicly, you just remove the balancer, and pry out the seal, replace the seal, and put the balancer back.
while that sounds simple enough, theres not alot of room for the puller.

Hmmm....I was told that the front crank seal was behind the timing cover gasket. I was told to buy the timing cover gasket set and the front crank seal would be included (which it looks like it was to me). Are you saying that it's not behind the timing cover gasket?

Not to mention, if I did get the puller, I probably wouldn't know how to pull it anyway without direction. Never used one before.

[This message has been edited by Blade_69 (edited 07-14-2005).]

nope, its on the front side & accessable. at least on my '85. there are 2 different covers
the puller is easy - its basicly a plate, with a threaded hole in the center, you remove the crank bolt, then you bolt the plate to the harmonic balancer, and when you start running in the center bolt, it pushes against the crank, which in turn pushes the plate out, with the harmonic balancer bolted to it.

Okay. Just talked to my contact and he said exactly what you said. For a second I was confused again. He said that the seal gets pressed into the timing cover. Okay. Now we got that straight He said the other important tool I'd need is an installer I'm starting to think I should just take it to a mechanic and let him rip me off

Hopefully someone close by has experience with and can help me out. Like I said, I'd do all the work, just let me know what to do.

Thanks Pyrthian

As above, not a hard job. Just did mine, much easier than I was anticipating. First off let me say mine is a 4cyl. This is where I look like an idiot!! Not sure what an SE has, a 4 or 6, or only a 4 or only a 6. One way or another even if you have a 6 I bet it will be almost the same.

Basically, quick and dirty.

Disconnect the battery just because.

Raise the car, support it on stands. Obviously, and I have to say this, if it falls don’t come to me!! Any way.. Pull the wheel on the pass. Side.

Remove the inner wheel well and the 2 lower skirts that are located in front of and behind the axle. It is all held in with a series of center push rivets. Grab the little nipple with a pair of pliers and pull. They operate like a drywall anchor, when you get one out it is obvious. There are, at least on my 84, 2 at the very top and center that are not like the others. These are basically plastic “classic style” pop-rivets. Leave them in, they only hold the 2 halves together. I also seem to recall a trim screw at the belt line molding.

Remove the belts. On my 4 I had to loosen the alt and A/C compressor. The A/C on the 4 is a pain as it is held in with 2 bolts at the top and 2 at the bottom. I have to remove the battery and its plastic surround as well as the heat shield on the firewall to get access to the upper bolts.

You have to lock the flywheel in place to get the bolt out of the crank snout. My car is an auto. On the 125 there is a shield that drops with 2 10mm bolts which opens up about a 5”x2” or so gap in the bell housing exposing the flywheel. I use a couple of vice grips locked on to the flywheel the hold the motor. Make sure the head of the vice grips don’t wedge against anything as you clamp them. I notice mine hit the bell housing and flex the flywheel so I had to change their position.

Get a breaker bar and large socket and take out the snout bolt.

Now, the fun… For laughs I tugged on my pulley a few times. Low and behold it popped right off!! No puller needed. If you need a puller, as mentioned above, most chain stores lend them out or get one from Harbor Freight. They are not all that expensive.

Once it is off inspect the machined snout on the pulley/dampener. Many times the seal wears a grove where it rides. Mine had a slight one on a 29K engine. To take care of that I used some very fine sand paper and wet sanded it. I wet the paper and the pulley, wrapped the paper around the snout and rolled the dampener to evenly polish it. If yours is real bad what you do is instead of getting just a seal you get a repair sleeve and the associated seal. When you go to the parts store for the seal they should list the repair sleeve and its seal in the same place in their computer. Look up the seal on-line at AZ, you will see what I am talking about.
Get the seal out of the timing cover. First take a good look at it to get an idea of how deep or shallow it is so the replacement can end up in roughly the same place. For removal I used various punches, drifts, small hammers, and pliers. I crushed in the edges of the seal to relieve tension and allow me to pull it out. Careful not the beat up the crank or deform the timing cover. On the 4 the timing cover is stamped, rather thin, steel. I think it will take some abuse but I was darn sure I did not want to mar is up so I took some care.

Once the seal was out I cleaned the timing cover lip where the seal rests. Mine had a touch of surface rust so I actually used some fine sand paper to clean it up followed by a rag saturated with a little carb cleaner.

Push the new seal in. Using just my thumbs it made it about 2/3 of where I wanted it o go. There is not much room for a driver or a large socket to act as a driver so what I did was use a large fender washer to distribute the load (hold the washer to the seal edge and tap it with the hammer) and small hammer to walk around the edges to seat the seal about where the old one was located. Toward the top I had to get fancy and hold a drift against the washer, which was resting on the seal, while I tapped the drift. There is not enough room for the hammer.

Clean up the damper snout and install the sleeve if needed. I smeared a very thin coat of anti-seize on the INSIDE (the area that contacts the crank snout) of the snout so that it would come apart easier should I ever have to do it again. Reinstall the dampener and bolt then torque to spec.

Now reverse all of the above to put it back together.

I think that’s about it!! Good luck!

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Brent

'89 Turbo TA
Real Ram Air.
Accept NO substitute!!

'84 Indy Fiero
'88 Fiero GT
'68 Bird (Project!)
'87 Bird (Project #2!)
'99 F350 PowerStroke Diesel

'01 Arctic Cat 400 4X4

Uh.... Yeah...... Now what did I do with that number to Firestone

Dude Im in Oswego, have a garage and basic tools, napas a block from my house and auto zone is about 3 miles, pm me if I can help. Good Luck

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Failing to prepare - Is preparing to fail....

I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so I can spread

quote Originally posted by Blade_69: Uh.... Yeah...... Now what did I do with that number to Firestone

It's not that bad, I just have a tendancy to over explain. Here is my thinking, if some one is asking it is becasuse they don't know. No problem, I have been there, will be there again. If it is something I have done I try to give as much detail as possible to help out. Nothing like unexpected bumps to make a simple job turn bad!!!

Brent

Be sure to check your balancer for a groove. If there is a groove you need to install a repair sleeve on it. As far as I know there are two different kinds. One you have to carefully tap on with a rubber mallet. The other has a installation tool with it (just a thin metal cup used to help push it down using the same rubber mallet).

Good luck

Vinny

Are you sure it's the crank seal and not the front lip of the oilpan where it meets the timing cover?

I'd offer to help but for the next 3 weekends I'm booked up between car shows and races.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 07-14-2005).]

For a little insurance, i would put a dab of gasket sealer on the outside edge of your seal where it mates to the timing cover and also on the crank snout especially on the key way. You don't want to do it twice. Just my two cents.

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85 GT 3.4
Auto 3.08
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60"

quote Originally posted by WBailey1041: Dude Im in Oswego, have a garage and basic tools, napas a block from my house and auto zone is about 3 miles, pm me if I can help. Good Luck

Thanks Bailey. While the car itself is in good shape, I'm pretty sure that by the time I get half way to your area it'll be smoking like Cheech and Chong and I'd have to resort to driving 40mph to make it the rest of the way. Hmm...I do have a truck. Does anyone have any idea on how much it would cost to rent a tow bar or trailer? Now where's that number to U-Haul

quote Originally posted by vinny: Be sure to check your balancer for a groove. If there is a groove you need to install a repair sleeve on it. As far as I know there are two different kinds. One you have to carefully tap on with a rubber mallet. The other has a installation tool with it (just a thin metal cup used to help push it down using the same rubber mallet). Good luck Vinny

Hey Vinny. Yeah I was warned about that whole sleeve thing. But I was told that it's rare that I'd need it. The Fiero Store sells both kits. One with and one without. Right now I have one from Murray's that I think has it. Not 100% sure.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Are you sure it's the crank seal and not the front lip of the oilpan where it meets the timing cover? I'd offer to help but for the next 3 weekends I'm booked up between car shows and races.

Hey Orief. I figured you'd chime in. Thanks. As it happens, I'm busy for the next four weekends. I'm almost positive it's the crank seal because once I explained the symptoms to this guy at the Fiero Store (I'm assuming he knows what he's talking about) he explained to me what it was and why it was happening. Seemed feasible to me. But of course, what you say makes sense also. How about I get an oil pan gasket also and we go from there??? So how about Saturday Aug. 13th? Let me know.

quote Originally posted by Lilchief: For a little insurance, i would put a dab of gasket sealer on the outside edge of your seal where it mates to the timing cover and also on the crank snout especially on the key way. You don't want to do it twice. Just my two cents.

Every little bit helps. I use the same philosophy. Do it right the first time.

quote Originally posted by Blade_69: So how about Saturday Aug. 13th? Let me know.

I am available that Saturday.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: I am available that Saturday.

Thanks Orief. I have your address in Schaumburg. Still There?