My Fiero currently has a 2.8 liter V6 and I am going to swap in a 3.4, but I can't seem to find a good solution to the stock restrictive intake manifold. I know that trueleo sells one for 600$ but thats a bit much considering victer junior intake manifolds for V-8s are about 300$. Does anybody have a good solution???

quote Originally posted by I wear pants: Does anybody have a good solution???

If you find one let me know

[This message has been edited by Sullivan (edited 07-04-2005).]

For port fuel injection is the Trueleo
For TBI injection or a 4-bbl carb is the Edelbrock Performer (about $200 new)
The 4-bbl carb'd 3.4L I built had over 220hp.
Or the stock intake bored and ported (about $150)
These are basically your only options if you want to use a 3.4L pushrod.

There is the 3400's and the 3.4L TDC engines where you just swap the entire motor and piggy-back the ECM.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 07-04-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: For TBI injection or a 4-bbl carb is the Edelbrock Performer (about $200 new)

Where can one be bought, all I've seen are for 8 cylinders?

Hey Sully the summit racing p/n is EDL-3785 . That is for the base manifold (lower) . You will also need the upper portion that allows you to bolt on the carb. There are two differant types. One is for a 2 BBL and the other is for a 4BBL carb.
This is the base
http://store.summitracing.com/largeimage.asp?part=EDL-3785
this is the 4BBL upper portion
http://store.summitracing.com/largeimage.asp?part=EDL-3789

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"but when equipped with NOS, sometimes I feel invincible..."
"but when I race from a roll it's hard to hit 2nd"

Thanks for part # I looked at summit before could not find it. I want low end, and throttle response so 2 bbl

I looked at the 2BBL top portion and it looks like it's for a stock carb. You could always use the 4BBL top portion and use an adapter that allows you to use a 2BBL on a 4BBL manifold.

http://store.summitracing.com/largeimage.asp?part=TRD-2065

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"but when equipped with NOS, sometimes I feel invincible..."
"but when I race from a roll it's hard to hit 2nd"

Orief was running a 390 cfm carb. Its the same carb I will be running as well from edelbrock. If he can make 220 + with only other minor things, then why not step up to the 4 bbl? A 2 bbl carb will not really give you any more low end, as the 4 bbl isn't really 'over flowing'. Plus if you ever wanted to add more performance, you could, and have that extra little kick of a 4 bbl backing you up. Just a thought.

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Fiero 2MCUSTOM - 3.4 Pushrod swap in progress....

Thats what I was thinking just go with 4bbl, If it doesnt do like I want use 2bbl adpt.

I have the older (about the same) Torker II Edelbrock made for the 4 barrel but with the 2 barrell conversion and 2 barrel Holley 2300-7448 carb.

I can say this.

The added plenum space with the conversion spacer makes for less low end torque but higher top end torque. Height is a huge issue. With this setup a scoop is absolutely necessary in my book. I am also dealing with heat issues. The carb requires 6 psi fuel and the cooler the better. At normal Fiero operating temps, gas will 'boil' (at about 156*F or above). This means if you don't get your air flow right (like I did not and Oreif did) you will get vapour lock issues (like I did and Oreif did not)

If I was looking at a 3.4 with the Edelbrock intake, I would seriously consider the Holley TBI system. BTW, I can't endorse the notion that the 2 barrel in fact produces better low end torque in small displacement application. On primaries, the 4160/4150 4 barrel carbs actally have a smaller venturi and probably produce as good or better torque than the 2 barrel.

Just my .02

Arn

Well here is my real world experience of living with the 390 4 barrel and Edlebrock intake.
I have had the set-up on my 3.4 for almost 2 years. The engine has a couple of cylinders with tired rings so performance wise it is not a fresh motor by any means.
The car has great throttle response, does not bog, pulls hard and runs clean through the entire rpm range.
I get about 25-26 mpg on average. The car is using a 4:10 4 speed trans which hurts the highway mileage but the engine runs really strong in the midrange and is a lot of fun with the 4:10.
I did spend some time setting it up with regards to jetting and timing but it was not hard just a new learning curve.
In the winter time I do adjust the idle screws slightly but it has been a set it and forget it type of car.
It is used as a daily driver when the weather is nice, year round.
The only problem I have had, and it is more due to blow by from the tired rings than the carb set-up, is seepage between the intake bottom and riser.

I have not experienced the hot soak issue that Arn has and I am sure he wil get that sorted out.
My motor is stock except for a crate motor cam and I gasket matched the heads and swapped to the correct springs for the cam.

I have run a best of 15.3 at 87 mph in the quarter. If the motor were not tired and I were a better driver it would be a mid 14 second car.

Hope this helps,
Rich

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85 GT 4-speed
3.4 pushrod, 390 Holley carb, Edlebrock intake, MSD 6A ignition. 04 Gran Prix exhaust tips, Ported manifolds and lots more to go.
Richey

So if you use the 4bbl theres no clearance issues with stock deck?

quote Originally posted by Sullivan: So if you use the 4bbl theres no clearance issues with stock deck?

With the Edelbrock 4-bbl riser, the Holley 390cfm 4-bbl carb and the Edelbrock 10" signature series air cleaner you will have about 1/8" clearence under a stock 85-88 notchback or a stock 86-88 fastback decklid. It will not fit using an 84 decklid.

A Mr. Gasket 6.5" round air cleaner will work as well but restricts flow slightly. (best used on a 2-bbl.)

If you do the conversion to carberation what changes do you have to make to get rid of all of the electrical stuff from the FI? Also how can you use the Edelbrock with a throttlebody? Thanks for all of the responses guys.

Anyone ever thought of doing alittle extrude honing of the stock intake manifold? I'm kinda curious if any has done this. This is probably gonna be the route I'm gonna go.

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'88 Fiero GT - 3.4L GM Crate engine
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/707857
'91 GMC Syclone - #449
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/716108

If you're going for a 3.4 liter motor, consider a '90-94 Camaro/Firebird transplant. It comes with a pretty good intake, and DIS. I've got one of these in a '74(?) Porsche 924, so I'm fairly familiar with the motor.

The key to this swap is to treat it like a real swap! Use the Camaro/Firebird computer, and either mount the air cleaner on the right side of the car where the battery used to be or flip the entire intake manifold end-for-end. The starter will have to be moved to the other side, but Rodney Dickman sells a jig for that.

By the way, the Camaro/Firebird computer incorporates the Passkey security system, and a speed governor that limits the original Camaro/Firebird to 108 mph. You can get around this by getting a custom chip.

quote Originally posted by I wear pants: If you do the conversion to carberation what changes do you have to make to get rid of all of the electrical stuff from the FI? Also how can you use the Edelbrock with a throttlebody? Thanks for all of the responses guys.

When switching to carb the ECM will be disconnected. You can trim the harness and remove wires to sensors no longer used and the "check engine" light bulb is removed from the dash. You need to add 1 wire for the electronic choke.

If you want to go tp TBI, Holley makes a 670cfm 2-bbl pro-jection TBI system. It is completely stand alone and easily adjustable. You would need the 2-bbl riser from Edelbrock. The TBI set-up can also be made to be Emission testing friendly where the carb set-up will not pass.

With a 4-bbl it will look like this: (Note: I used a 3" air filter instead of the original 1" air filter to raise the air cleaner into the decklid scoop.)

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 07-05-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: When switching to carb the ECM will be disconnected. You can trim the harness and remove wires to sensors no longer used and the "check engine" light bulb is removed from the dash. You need to add 1 wire for the electronic choke. With a 4-bbl it will look like this: (Note: I used a 3" air filter instead of the original 1" air filter to raise the air cleaner into the decklid scoop.)

How about pic of the scoop

quote Originally posted by Sullivan: How about pic of the scoop

Sure, It is a 1970-1972 Trans Am scoop that has been glassed onto the decklid:

Thats a really nice looking Fiero. Areo notchback are my favorite.

quote Originally posted by I wear pants: Thats a really nice looking Fiero. Areo notchback are my favorite.

I agree with both statements.

bump for today

Is this the carb? http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=HLY-0-8007&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp&x=29&y=11 can you use the throttle body cable, if not what cable do you use?

quote Originally posted by Sullivan: Is this the carb? http://store.summitracing.com/default .asp?Ntt=HLY-0-8007&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp&x=29&y=11 can you use the throttle body cable, if not what cable do you use?

Yes that is the carb and you use the stock throttle cable. You do need to get a throttle cable bracket.
I used Jegs part number 555-15230 because it is easily adjusted and mounts easily. Some others like the Mr. Gasket ones mount to the valve cover but due to the 60* of the engine it is hard to line up (originally designed for a 90* motor)
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=156862&prmenbr=361

Orief do you know of any other scoops that will allow you to use the larger air filter? I don't have the resources to fiberglass one in.

[This message has been edited by I wear pants (edited 07-06-2005).]

Oreif; what do you think the total cost is for doing the carb setup, what with the intake, adapter, new carb, linkage (if needed), and maybe hood mods? Having used 4bbls on my Cuda etc, I'm partial to fuel injection and was wonding what the cost dif betwenn doing our $600 intake/chip and carb really is? I suspect that it's not as big a dif as it may appear. To me, $200-250 would fall into that catagory especially when you consider how much less complecated the install would be. And I do know that to some folks that extra $200 is lot of money. BTW: your setup looks great and I'm sure you have it working great too. Before I decided to build my own intake, I almost went the carb route too.

quote Originally posted by I wear pants: Orief do you know of any other scoops that will allow you to use the larger air filter? I don't have the resources to fiberglass one in.

The bolt-on version of the mustang scoop works as well.

I have also done the carbed V6 (WIth MUCH help from Oreif, thanks again).

The car honestly pulls MUCH better now with the carb than it did with the FI. There was something wacky going on with the FI system, and we couldn't get it sorted out. It could have been a bad/leaking injector, bad sensor, etc, I'm not sure. The car used to have an iradic idle, and used to flatten out on the top end. Now the car starts smoothly, idles rock solid, and pulls very strong. The mpg in the city went down a hair but the highway mpg isn't bad if you keep your foot out of it.

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I have also done the carbed V6 (WIth MUCH help from Oreif, thanks again). The car honestly pulls MUCH better now with the carb than it did with the FI. There was something wacky going on with the FI system, and we couldn't get it sorted out. It could have been a bad/leaking injector, bad sensor, etc, I'm not sure. The car used to have an iradic idle, and used to flatten out on the top end. Now the car starts smoothly, idles rock solid, and pulls very strong. The mpg in the city went down a hair but the highway mpg isn't bad if you keep your foot out of it.

Hey thats looking pretty good. I noticed you have an msd ignition in there too, any other mods?

quote Originally posted by I wear pants: Have any of you guys that have done the conversion to carberation upgraded your camshafts to go with the higher performance carb/intake? If so what kind of results have you gotten? Thanks again, Matt

I used a cam that was about the same as the Crane H272 cam. Engine was dyno'd at 223hp/239 torque.
As a reference my engine had:
Ported/polished/shaved heads (bumped compression up from 9.0:1 to 9.4:1)
5-angle valve job
Comp Cams Roller tipped 1.52 rockers and heavy duty pushrods
Edelbrock cam and performance lifters (custom grind but very close to the Crane H272 cam)
Coyles double roller timing chain
Crane HI-6R ignition and coil (Like the MSD)
Hi-vol GM Performance Parts oil pump
Fiero Store Sprint exhaust manifolds/ Borla Exhaust.
Edelbrock intake with Holley 390 cfm 4-bbl carb

The last time it was chassis dyno'd and fine tuned I had 193hp to the wheels which was about 228hp at the flywheel.
86 SE with TH-125 trans (with street/strip torque converter and shift kit) car ran a best time of 14.2 in the 1/4 mile. Another member had a nearly identical set-up but with a 4-spd manual and he was running about 13.7 in the 1/4 mile.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 07-07-2005).]

Thats a pretty sweet setup I think I will do something similar, but I dont have the cash to do as much as you have done. 14.2s is really impressive 13.7 with the manual is too I like the way 13s sound.

The entire engine/trans, etc assembly is being replaced by a 3800sc/4t65e-HD. The setup will soon be for sale as a complete assembly. If the complete setup won't sell, I will be parting out the intake/carb setup. The 2.8 was recently rebuilt so its preferred that it all goes as one piece. There isn't much demand for a rebuilt block whereas the entire setup is ideal for someone looking to upgrade from 4cyl since you don't need to go crazy with wiring/ecm/fuel pump, throttle cable, etc.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: The bolt-on version of the mustang scoop works as well.

Do you know if the indy pace car style scoop will work?

quote Originally posted by Jim Gregory: If you're going for a 3.4 liter motor, consider a '90-94 Camaro/Firebird transplant. It comes with a pretty good intake, and DIS. I've got one of these in a '74(?) Porsche 924, so I'm fairly familiar with the motor. The key to this swap is to treat it like a real swap! Use the Camaro/Firebird computer, and either mount the air cleaner on the right side of the car where the battery used to be or flip the entire intake manifold end-for-end. The starter will have to be moved to the other side, but Rodney Dickman sells a jig for that. By the way, the Camaro/Firebird computer incorporates the Passkey security system, and a speed governor that limits the original Camaro/Firebird to 108 mph. You can get around this by getting a custom chip.

The starter is on the wrong side if you use the f body block, but the intake would be a good way to go and deff use the f body managment

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85 fiero GT stock FOR NOW!
94 bonniville ssei stock
85 S-10 turbocharged 3800
83 Citation x-11 turbocharged 3.1 with AWD 6000 running gear

quote Originally posted by markviiisvt4: The starter is on the wrong side if you use the f body block

This is true but there is a jig sold by Rodney Dickman that allows the block to be re-drilled to put the starter on the opposite side.
http://rodneydickman.com/
By the way welcome aboard
Rich

quote Originally posted by I wear pants: Do you know if the indy pace car style scoop will work?

Only if you get the race car scoop. The carb does not sit in the center of the engine compartment.
The race car indy scoop has a base that extends towards the passenger side of the decklid. The regular indy scoop does not and is designed to sit in the middle.

If you look at the pic you'll see the scoop I now have ( I did have an indy scoop on the car originally.) is offset to the right side of the decklid.

Do you know where I could get one of the indy race car style scoops and how much I can expect to pay?