I'm about to purchase an engine rebuild kit for the 86 2.8 4spd I purchased as a summer project. I was going to get the rebuild kit without a cam and just go with a Crane H260. The place I'm getting the rebuild kit from has this cam (below) available in place of the stock cam at no charge (substitute for stock, no extra cost):

Melling HP cam #MTC5
Lift: INT .420 EXH .443
Dur at .050 : 204/214 deg.
Lobe spread: 112 deg

Should I just go with this? It will only cost me $70 for this cam to be in the rebuild kit and that includes lifters. In case it isn't obvious, I don't know cams too well so I don't know what to look for in the numbers.

Anyone have software to tell me in what RPM band it will be good?

thanks for any help
Dave

I don't know much about that cam... but if there's anything I can do to convince you to get the H260 instead... please let me know what it is..

I went with one of those "builder cams" that the machine shop that sells the kits offers to you. Right now, I'm in the process of building parts for my next rebuild because I am totally unsatisfied with the cam they gave to me.

I can lay tracks of rubber like there's NO tomorrow... but... at 4,000 rpms.. the cam ceases to produce any real power.. it's almost like I put the gas to half throttle... (and I KNOW there's nothing wrong with my exhuast, I'm running 17lb injectors.. etc..)

The BEST, I mean BEST advice I can give is to go with a cam that you KNOW what to expect from.

You KNOW that the H260 will improve the averall performance of the motor through a much wider power band...

If I knew then, what I know now.. I never would have picked that cam... it said the power was from 1,000rpms to 4,500 rpms.

I think 4,500 rpms is pushing it because the cam dies at anything over 4,000.

The H260 and H272 produce power to a much higher rpm, 5,000 or 5,500 I believe...

------------------
Todd,
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1997 Pontiac Grand Am GT
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 5-Speed
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2L) Auto
1984 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 SE
1981 Pontiac TransAm (sbc 350)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

Ditch: I have a rebuild 2.8 w/ an awesome cam, which I get GREAT performance out of the motor w/. Unfortunately the info on the cam is at work. I will get it tomorow and post for you as a comparison.

r/

Frank

thanks for the info so far. I definitely don't want to get a cam that is sub-par. It's not like this is a bolt on. If I pick the wrong one it will be a pain to switch it.

I'm just doing a basic rebuild with a few mods. I have a set of rebuild ported heads, ported manifolds, and will likely port/match the three intake sections. I'm going to have the TB bored as well.

The H260 seemed like a good cam to go with. I might even go with the H272 as long as I don't have to switch to larger injectors (17#)....I don't want this engine running lean. I might be able to fix that with a custom chip and fuel pressure regulator though.

It would be nice if the cam mentioned above is good because the price is right, but if it isn't, then it will be worth it to put in a bit more $$$ for one like the 260 or 272.

thanks
dave

and fklucznik, I would be very interrested in your cam info.

Those are the same specs as the Edelbrock Performer Plus cam.

The rebuilder cam you're looking at will make less power than the 260 or especially the 272 cam but it probably will make a better around town economy type of driving. From the sound of all those mods you're talking about, plus the fact that you have a manual trans, I don't see an around town economy as what you're looking for in your car but I could be wrong. The cam is one of the most important decisions you make in an engine so you should chose one that suits your type of driving. For me, performance is number one and I have a manual so I would chose the 272 without hesitation.
BTW by around town/economy I mean that the cam will be more low end friendly thus for more low end torque but less mid and high end power. With a lightweight car like the Fiero, plus fairly low gears of the 4-speed stick, you have plenty of grunt but the midrange and higher rpm areas of the engine are where power fails/dies out which is where the improvments need to be made. Keeping this in mind, it makes sense to use the bigger 272 than a smaller cam such as the rebuilder cam you're looking at but, again, this still depends on what you're doing with the car. If all you're doing is picking up groceries or cummiting then the smaller cam makes more sense.

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i looked at your specs. and the crane H-260 and your's is just a tad smaller . I don't think you could tell the difference.if they were installed. In the future you could switch to 1.6 rockers and would have you close to the H-272 cam. Just make sure you have the right springs. This is just my opinion.

------------------
85 GT 3.4
Auto 3.08
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60"

that cam is basicly a glorified stock cam. I would go bigger also.

yes, like everyone else said - thats a mild cam, barely an improvement over stock. In fact, I've had that cam - was $90 for me - its OK. yes, the price is hard to beat. its all in what you want out of your car. most would pass on that cam, and go for the HP's from the Crane 272 - which is also what I have now.

thanks for all the advice.
looks like my mind is made up, Crane H260 or H272.

Dave

The big thing to look at with those kinds of cams is if the grind is designed for fuel injection, or carburetor. F/I cams are more round, carb cams are pointier. It makes a HUGE difference. Get the cam designed for your fuel delivery type.

[This message has been edited by Taijiguy (edited 04-29-2005).]

Don't buy Crane. I have one in my engine and their QC stinks these days. We had to machine I think 3 valve boses to compensate for thier springs which were way too high and would have quickly worn down the cam. Also, the shop we work with (HP Proformance) said they stopped using Crane after too many cams they installed failed or wore out too soon because they were not hardened proporly. I'll with an Isky next time around.

Ok bench flow data on the Fiero V6. States that .450 lift at valve or as close as you can get to that is your optimal flow.

208 @ .050 is a good duration
.420 @ 1.5 bumped up with a 1.6 rocker gets you around .448 which is a good lift.

Here is mine. Pulled strong to 6000 and beyond with 1.6 rockers to push up the lift.

(slightly off topic)

quote Originally posted by Francis T: Don't buy Crane. I have one in my engine and their QC stinks these days. We had to machine I think 3 valve boses to compensate for thier springs which were way too high and would have quickly worn down the cam.

I won't be buying Crane valve springs, then. How about the Comp Cams springs?

I don't have any personal experience with Comp Cam products, you may want to do a post on them and see who has. Anyway, no matter what brand you get, always measure. Before you buy, you may try contacting Comp Cams and ask if they will swoop out any springs that are out of spec. At least it's easy to measure springs before you use them.

quote Originally posted by ditch: Melling HP cam #MTC5 Lift: INT .420 EXH .443 Dur at .050 : 204/214 deg. Lobe spread: 112 deg

Ok...I finally found my cam specs. Sorry it took so long. But the cam in my engine came from A.R.I. and is listed as a Phase 2 Pro-Builder camshaft. It is as agressive as you can get w/o some kind of vacuum assist to help it idle. Ironically my cam has the exact same specs as yours.

PHASE II

VACUUM 16-18
DURATION @ .050: Intake: 204 / Exhaust: 214
ADV. DURATION: Intake: 270/ Exhaust: 280
LIFT: Intake: 420/ Exhaust: 443
LOBE CENTER: Intake: 107/ Exhaust: 117

Like I mentioned earlier, thier Phase III cam needs a vacuum assist to idle and specs out as:

PHASE III

VACUUM LOW
DURATION @ .050: Intake: 214 / Exhaust: 224
ADV. DURATION: Intake: 280/ Exhaust: 290
LIFT: Intake: 433/ Exhaust: 466
LOBE CENTER: Intake: 107/ Exhaust: 117

For more info on CAMS check out: http://www.engine-parts.com/GMV6/gm28stroker.html

The guy who built my engine used the Phase II cam w/ a new crate block and heads, used the original crank shaft, Keith Black pistons (std, not dished or anything), new connecting rods, 1.6 roller rockers from Comp Cam, hogged out and reinforced exhaust manifolds, removed the cat converter, added Flow Master muffler, and Borla Exhaust tips. All of the internal parts were highly recommended by the A.R.I tech staff, and I have to say after 10k miles they knew what they were talking about. Afterward, I completely rebuilt the entire ignition system; all of it (e.g. new coil, ignition module, wires, plugs, distributor pickup coil, etc.), added a 57 mm TB from Darrel Morris, port matched intake manifold, 180 degree thermostat, replaced every sensor on the motor, and installed a set of fuel injectors from an 88 GT that were cleaned and flowtested w/i 1% by http://www.CruzinPerformance.com.

I love the motor...figure it gets the most HP you can get out of a 2.8 w/o adding a turbo. The exhaust is VERY throaty and sounds like a V-8, it idles around 1100-1200 and is moderately rough. You certainly know the motor was tweeked some... Lots of power starting at the 3,500 rpm range and VERY strong all the way through 6,500 rpm. I normally shift before 6k rpm, but have hit 6,500 twice w/o realizing it. It clearly felt like it had more to give, but I've been told the lower ends on these motors are not overly built and I'm not about to sacrifice a motor this good for a one time thrill.

Anyway...I am more than happy w/ it. My 86 GT is a later model and has the 5 speed...and there is nothing like cruzin at 70 mph, having a Mustang come along side ya, and droppin her into 3rd and showin him what she's got. :-) Long as someone else is entertaining Mr. Policeman somewhere else...

r/

Frank

[This message has been edited by fklucznik (edited 05-04-2005).]

quote Originally posted by fklucznik:

thanks for posting the good info

+

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 05-04-2005).]