well its odvious that these damn 2.8's love blowing ignition moduals, i was just left stranded 15 miles away from home, no phone because my MSD modual that i just put in it yesterday!!! decided to blow!, my guess is heat, so the question is, can i lenghten every wire going into the modual and relocate it near the air filter or somewhere else away from heat?, i dont know what to do but this is a very agravating problem!, id guess that id have to stick an old ignition modual (not hooked up) in the stock location of the one being relocated so that the dist cap sits right and doesnt get a huge air hole inderneath it. whats your input? and will a A6 msd box hook up easy to the 2.8? that would stop it from blowing moduals also

stick with GM parts and you wont have a problem, the OEM one is still going strong at 20 years of age.... thats hard to beat

The one that was in my car was the original at 132k miles when I overhauled the motor. At 190k I swapped in another used GM module out of an old, old motor while troubleshooting another problem and it worked fine. The original module is in the trunk with a dab of heat sink compound as a spare. IMHO the best way to keep these lasting a long time is to keep the underside of the distributor body free of grease and dirt because it's the heatsink for the module and dirt is an excellent insulator, and periodically cleaning and replacing the heat sink compound.

Oh, and GM modules all the way.

JazzMan

but gm moduals power wise are inferior to the msd or jegs modual, but what about relocating

I think the hard part would be lengthening the wires to the pick up coil. I also have to wonder about the effects of the increased resistance in the longer wires on the ignition system.

BTW, I pulled my stock control module and put in an Accel one. The stock one was the original and 18 years old. It worked fine. The Accel module died in less than a year. The old stock one is back in and working fine.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: but gm moduals power wise are inferior to the msd or jegs modual, but what about relocating

Make sure you understand how ignition control modules work before making a statement like that because it is totally wrong. You've been reading too many manufacturers claims.

The type of module has NOTHING to do with the power of the spark you will get to the plugs.

well i really dont think that the gm moduals can withstand 9000 rpms and put out 48,000 volts, they die out at 4,500 rpms and put out 42,000 volts. i didnt think of resistance, id better re-think my plan, im leaning towards a gm unit and an A6 now., id hate to be replacing these things every month, well at least you can learn from me, dont ever get an after market ignition modual, il just use the new unit that im waiting for and always keep a spare and a tool on hand at all times.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: well i really dont think that the gm moduals can withstand 9000 rpms and put out 48,000 volts, they die out at 4,500 rpms and put out 42,000 volts. .

what is with this 40,000 volt talk? We're talking about modules here, not ignition coils.

another thing, you're going to put this module on your 2.8 which will NEVER get anywhere near 9,000 rpm's, so where did that come from?

now, as far as ignition coils go, your best bet would be either GM, MSD, or Crane. The MSD and Crane are preferred as they generate a hotter spark.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: but gm moduals power wise are inferior to the msd or jegs modual, but what about relocating

Actually, the trend of people on the forum is to discover that non-GM modules are inferior and fail much more often. The module has nothing to do with the strength of the spark, and for that matter the strenght of the spark of a stock GM HEI ignition system is way more than adequate to fire a stock motor. The only time additional spark strength would make a difference is on a seriously turbo or supercharged motor with high compression. On a stock motor it's not relevant at all, and is just a waste of money.

JazzMan

2 things,

1) if you dont know what a part does, dont make assumptions, ask. Ignition modules are made of semiconductor material and are like a vlave controlling the flow of the coil. They do not conduct any where near 4000 volts let alone 40K

2) If you install your aftermarket cheapest module you can find with HEAT SINK PASTE NOT DIELECTRIC GREASE, it will last. I learned this the hard way, went through 5 in a month with the cheapos, then went to radio shack and bought heat sink compound and put that on the module b4 installation and no failures to date.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: but gm moduals power wise are inferior to the msd or jegs modual, but what about relocating

you really shouldn't have to relocate it, just buy a good module and it won't burn out. You bought a crappy aftermarket one and it was fried. It gets hot in that engine bay and the GM modules can take it...assuming you don't have other problems in your ignition system that might cause premature failure of the module.

If you want to relocate it, here is what I would do. First off, look at what connectors go to it. One comes from the pick-up coil under the distributor, one goes to the ignition coil, and one goes to the tach filter I believe. You need to extend all of those connections using the same guage wire or a guage larger.

Run all of those wires to the back firewall (trunk) and cut a hole into the trunk. Then pull the carpet back so you have bare metal exposed. Mount the module there by drilling and tapping holes for it into the metal firewall. Be sure to use a good heatsink grease (get it at radioshack) on the back of the module before screwing it down. Just a thin layer will do it...don't use too much.

The grease will transfer the heat from the module to the firewall to keep it cool.

that is what I would do, but like I said, if your system is running properly a GM module will last you a long time in the stock location. You can order a GM ignition control module from GMpartsdirect.com part number 10482827, about $35 plus shipping

Many on here have used the autozone module and had no problem. I would advise keeping a spare module in your trunk so you don't have to be stranded like you were before. they're cheap enough and you only need to carry minimal tools

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: and will a A6 msd box hook up easy to the 2.8? that would stop it from blowing moduals also

Yes, 6A box will hook up easy, just read the directions that come with it. 6A box will not help or hurt your ignition module... let me repeat this for everyone again... BUY AC DELCO, OR GM PART!!!

(Also, its been said, but dont forget to put the right kind of grease / heat sinc on)

just to add i went to the junk yard today and stole (whoo i stole!) 3 ig moduals, 1 name brand is "Standerd" and the other 2 say GM, are thoes 2 the good ones to keep? 1 of the gm 1ns is made in singapore while the other one is made in mexico, which one isthe "keeper" and the mexico 1 looked very old while the singapore looked like it had ben replaced withen the last few years all 3 of these came out of 2.8, 80's camaros, all of them contained the clear greese.

is the right greese clear or white? my autozone ig mod came with white while the performance ig mod (the one that failed) came with a tube of clear greese, i have two questions

1 why would several different compinies sell "performance ig mods if there not any different that stock
2. why did i notice a substantial power difference when i put the performace 1 in, and then i lost the power when it blew and i had to put ol stocky back in??

your answere..

1. so they can rip you off and make money
2. your imagining things

--had to add that so you didnt waste your keyboard life.

[This message has been edited by 88 forumla (edited 04-08-2005).]

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: is the right greese clear or white? my autozone ig mod came with white while the performance ig mod (the one that failed) came with a tube of clear greese, i have two questions 1 why would several different compinies sell "performance ig mods if there not any different that stock 2. why did i notice a substantial power difference when i put the performace 1 in, and then i lost the power when it blew and i had to put ol stocky back in?? your answere.. 1. so they can rip you off and make money 2. your imagining things --had to add that so you didnt waste your keyboard life.

No, You are confusing the module with the coil. You installed the module and the coil at the same time AND re-gapped the plugs. That is why you felt such a power difference. Put the original module back in and there will be no difference. (If you "feel" a difference, it is your imagination.) At higher rpm's a higher voltage spark is needed, This is why an aftermarket coil works better. It has been a long time rumor that GM HEI coils don't provide enough spark for the higher RPM's, But this was way back in the 70's when HEI first came out. All the ignition module does is read a pulse from the pick-up coil and then trigger the coil to fire the spark. The computer will add delay to control timing advance, but it has nothing to do with the module's ability to trigger the coil at high RPM's.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 04-08-2005).]

why would the performance 1ns be rated at 9000rpms while stock are 4.5?

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: 1 why would several different compinies sell "performance ig mods if there not any different that stock 2. why did i notice a substantial power difference when i put the performace 1 in, and then i lost the power when it blew and i had to put ol stocky back in??

same reason they sell the tornado crap junk -- its called the placebo effect and its well documented

quote [b]Posted by 88 formula: why would the performance 1ns be rated at 9000rpms while stock are 4.5?

Like it has already been said before the reason for drop off after ~4500RPMs is the flow of the intake manifolds, they were designed for lower/mid range power not for high revs... it has very little to do with the stock ignition.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: why would the performance 1ns be rated at 9000rpms while stock are 4.5?

how about a link to this information.

I want to see where it says that a GM module is rated at 4500rpm and a "performance" module is rated at 9000rpm.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: same reason they sell the tornado crap junk -- its called the placebo effect and its well documented

OMG, don't mention any other "gimmicks". He'll go out, buy one, and claim a 10hp increase

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 04-08-2005).]

quote Originally posted by ditch: OMG, don't mention any other "gimmicks". He'll go out, buy one, and claim a 10hp increase

MUST......RESIST.....MUST......RESIST.......... Oh forget it,

He wants "Power"? Here you go the best power adders for the cheapest prices. With these mods, he'll have a 500hp 2.8L !!!!

http://www.getodd.com/more/springs/springs.html

http://www.kalecoauto.com/perf.htm

http://www.kalecoauto.com/tuneup.htm

http://www.myauto.tv/tfs/?PHPSESSID=3af5b1c06ae8fca505ada6aeea8c18fa

I have 1/2" spacers made out of fuel hose on mine. The MSD delivers more consistant spark at higher rpms due to the multiple spark pattern. It is noticable.
Perfectly true that the high output coil is needed. It all works together. Here is my MSD.

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I have 1/2" spacers made out of fuel hose on mine. The MSD delivers more consistant spark at higher rpms due to the multiple spark pattern. It is noticable. Perfectly true that the high output coil is needed. It all works together. Here is my MSD. Arn

yes a full MSD ignition does help
but just an msd coil that goes inplace of the stock coil.. they are junk

Another tip. I replaced my module with one from OReily's. They have the BorgWarner brand.

They offer two part numbers. CBE27P and CBE27

The CBE27 is a select, IE prime part while the CBE27P is run of the mill production.

I am running the CBE27 and have had no problems yet.

alright enoug is enough were all starting to act like a bunch of porch monkey knuckle draggers here,
i didnt mean that the stock coil stops at 4.5 i meant that is isnt as efective at higher rpms, so how come before you guys say that the coil and modual work together to produce a few hp, but now all the sudded there both gimicks and a waste of money?, just quit all the damn knuckle dragging and be civil ! , but when i get thoes 1/4 mile time slips i will post them, im not the kind of jack off that lies about his car, i have 2 "friends" 1 has a probe and the other a prelude, there both claiming 12.4 and 12.6 out of there cars!, all they have is a cold air intake and a big gody wing, see THOES are the morons, im being atleast somewhat reasonable about my claims! no bolt on will add more than a few hp, they all add up eventually tho.

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: im being at least somewhat reasonable about my claims! .

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 04-08-2005).]

Your plug are gapped to far, that's why you blew the modual right away. Wouldn't surprise me if you didn't put the grease on either after reading your responses though. Put your gap back to 45 and put in a GM module.
Nobody said that the module would give you more power. Most of the people in this thread told you what works and doesn't work in your other thread.
Yes you do make outlandish claims about your car! Oil will not give you 8HP. That's an outlandish claim right there that you made. You're no better than your friends in the outlandish claims dept.

Arns; the MSD 6a box stops giving multiple sparks above a certain rpm BTW. It just gives it more/hotter spark after that rpm supposedly. I took mine on and off my GT and there was no power difference. Pedal was slightly more responsive but no real power gain. Certainly no gain worth $125.

------------------

Actually Dave, the MSD manual says right to the point, (no mystery here)

"Above 3000 rpm there is simply not enough "time" to fire the spark plug more than once, so there is only one powerful spark".

The point I was making is that the Blaster coil and 6A series ignition work well together, and have done well for me. There is no doubt at all that on my engine I have a better 4000+ rpm response, and less hesitation from idle. We are talking about better response and you'd have to do some pretty intense testing to see what difference it made to your ET's.

Arn

when the hell did i say 8 hp out of an oil change? going from thick to thin syn is a good help but not 8 hp!! mabey .8 like i said a long ass time ago? where did 8 come from?

I read an article in hot rod may 05 that says bad grounds between the distributor and battery cause ign. modules to go bad, plus the coil can cause it also. maybe this will help

------------------
85 GT 3.4
Auto 3.08
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60"

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: when the hell did i say 8 hp out of an oil change? going from thick to thin syn is a good help but not 8 hp!! mabey .8 like i said a long ass time ago? where did 8 come from?

This thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/061300.html
You said on 3-31:
"heres what ive done...

1. 1.6 rockers 5 hp gain
2. advanced timeing 7 hp gain
3. accel spark plug wires 2 hp gain
4. accel dist rotor 0.2 hp gain
5. copper spark plugs 0.1 hp gain
6. mobil 1 full synthetic oil 5w20 (repalced 10w40 conventinal crap) 8 hp gain
7. high flow cat 3.5 hp gain
8. removed water seperater shitz and giggles gain 0hp
9. K&N air Filter 5 hp gain
10. MSD ignition modual 4 hp gain
11. MSD ignition coil 4 hp gain
12. will remove thermastat for a run or 2
13. a secret of mine 3hp gain
all for 360 $$"

You can edit your post all you want, But if someone quotes you it doesn't change. There are at least 2 posts that quoted your first post and there is no "." before the "8".
Just scroll down in the thread and see what a liar you are.
Good job trying to edit it today. I see you changed many of them. Earl even mentions it on his 04-07 post so you changed it TODAY. So now you are lying?????

Isn't it funny how you changed it from:
"were talking 2560 lb car with 178 hp like 141 to the wheels."

To:
"were talking 2560 lb car with 158 hp like 128 to the wheels."

Maybe we should start quoting all your posts so later when you try to deny something we can prove you wrong again.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 04-08-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: This thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/061300.html

Good catch Oreif

so here is his unedited post for anyone who wants a good laugh:

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: heres what ive done... 1. 1.6 rockers 5 hp gain 2. advanced timeing 7 hp gain 3. accel spark plug wires 2 hp gain 4. accel dist rotor 0.2 hp gain 5. copper spark plugs 0.1 hp gain 6. mobil 1 full synthetic oil 5w20 (repalced 10w40 conventinal crap) 8 hp gain 7. high flow cat 3.5 hp gain 8. removed water seperater shitz and giggles gain 0hp 9. K&N air Filter 5 hp gain 10. MSD ignition modual 4 hp gain 11. MSD ignition coil 4 hp gain 12. will remove thermastat for a run or 2 13. a secret of mine 3hp gain all for 360 $$ there nothing serious, but every little bit helps, and i figure if i pull 100lbs out of the car, pass seat, spare tire crap no gas or washer fluid and make my 110lb fiencee run it down the 1/4 mile i should be getting into the 14.9 to 15.5 range right?? were talking 2560 lb car with 178 hp like 141 to the wheels. this should do it!, il run er soon and give you a time slip input?? what should an auto no options 88 formula run stock?? 17's? 16.7? so

and here's what it changed to after his editing job: look closely...he changed qtr mile times and hp numbers

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: heres what ive done... 1. 1.6 rockers 5 hp gain 2. advanced timeing . 7 hp gain 3. accel spark plug wires .2 hp gain 4. accel dist rotor .2 hp gain 5. copper spark plugs .1 hp gain 6. mobil 1 full synthetic oil 5w20 (repalced 10w40 conventinal crap) .8 hp gain 7. high flow cat 3.5 hp gain 8. removed water seperater shitz and giggles gain 0hp 9. K&N air Filter 2 hp gain 10. MSD ignition modual .4 hp gain 11. MSD ignition coil .4 hp gain 12. will remove thermastat for a run or 2 13. a secret of mine 3hp gain all for 360 $$ there nothing serious, but every little bit helps, and i figure if i pull 100lbs out of the car, pass seat, spare tire crap no gas or washer fluid and make my 110lb fiencee run it down the 1/4 mile i should be getting into the 14.9 to 15.9 range right?? were talking 2560 lb car with 158 hp like 128 to the wheels. this should do it!, il run er soon and give you a time slip input?? what should an auto no options 88 formula run stock?? 17's? 16.7? edit: god damn this thred got way outa hand!

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: i have 2 "friends" 1 has a probe and the other a prelude, there both claiming 12.4 and 12.6 out of there cars!, all they have is a cold air intake and a big gody wing, see THOES are the morons

yep, they're morons, and they're your friends too....we all know that people of the same type, morons in this case, stick together

I try to be nice most of the time, but you are a complete $hithead. You have no idea what you're talking about and you don't listen to good advice. That's the perfect recipe for a moron. You're a credit to your breed.

-

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 04-08-2005).]

ah far as i know mine is stock

car runs great

im thinking of buying a new scdelco one an throwing the old on in the trunk

just in case

Getting close to route this thread to dev/nul...

JazzMan

you like to disrespect me, well back at ya!
sorry mr. pennock great forum! bad guests!

------------------

[This message has been edited by 88 forumla (edited 04-08-2005).]

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: you like to disrespect me, well back at ya! sorry mr. pennock great forum! bad guests!

Disrespect you??? How does you posting one statement, then later changing it and saying you never said it, and people posting proof you did, harm your respect?
Bad guests? Everyone who has replied has told you that the bolt-ons will not gain you the power you think. Instead of asking about what mods do work or trying to learn more about your specific engine, you mock and insult us with:
"i oata fart a chilly bean skid mark across your face "
"close minded sob's!!"
"id rather leave and deal with my own problems rather than listen to you bunch of richy listening to rap pot heads. peace u buncha a knuckle draggers"

And the pic in the other thread which I won't post here.

But it looks like you are leaving us.
Bye.

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Actually Dave, the MSD manual says right to the point, (no mystery here) "Above 3000 rpm there is simply not enough "time" to fire the spark plug more than once, so there is only one powerful spark". The point I was making is that the Blaster coil and 6A series ignition work well together, and have done well for me. There is no doubt at all that on my engine I have a better 4000+ rpm response, and less hesitation from idle. We are talking about better response and you'd have to do some pretty intense testing to see what difference it made to your ET's. Arn

I was thinking it was 3k but I couldn't remember for sure so I didn't want to throw a number out there that I wasn't sure of. There's been enough of that in this thread already.
I really think your increased response has more to do with the coil than the 6a personally but, then again, your set up is different than mine was so who knows. Besides that, you do make a good point about testing to see the difference in ET.

....

------------------

quote so how come before you guys say that the coil and modual work together to produce a few hp, but now all the sudded there both gimicks and a waste of money?

Because... it's simple ignition basics combined with research and development. Allow me to explain.....

A stock or even slightly modified 2.8 can only produce good power up to the 4500 to 4900 rpm range. The stock coil will not fall on it's face at that range. The stock coil is more than enough.

Imagine it's a nice cool day and your driving down the coast about 25 feet above sea level. You've just installed a new cap and rotor, a fresh set of spark plugs gapped at .045", and a new set of plug wires. For good measure, you just changed the oil and washed the car, so it's really running sweet.

So how much voltage do you need? Oh, about 12,000 volts (12Kv). What about when you nail it to pass the Good Sam going 35 in the 65 zone? Okay, maybe 14Kv.

But that monster coil you just installed is still putting out 60,000 volts to the plugs just like it says in the magazine ad, right? Nope, sorry. See, once the voltage has built up high enough to jump the plug gap, its job is basically done.

So just how do you get 60,000 volts (or even half that) to the plugs? You don't, except maybe in the lab. You see, high voltage is a strange beast. It tends to crawl over things or go through things you'd expect would stop it. If you kept opening the plug gaps, you'd find it increasingly difficult to get the voltage to the plug. At about 25KV, it would much rather run down the outside of the plug though the oil and dirt left from your fingerprints when you screwed it in or arcing through the tower of you new coil.

Does this mean 60,000 volts is complete fiction? Well, that depends on your view of reality. If you string together two car batteries in series (24 volts) and fire the coil a few times with no load attached, and it makes 60Kv just before it dies, is that coil not in fact capable of producing 60,000 volts?

One thing you will never see on a coil box or ad is "This coil is capable of producing up to 30,000 volts when measured in accordance with SAE specification XYZ " Even more enlightening would be a graph of how the coil voltage falls off with rpm. Of course this would be death in the marketplace. Can you imagine the shiny yellow coil promising nothing short of the ability to arc weld, next to the one that says "well, I start out at 30,000 volts and go down from there - buy me". Which would you choose?

On the modules failing issue. You could have several reasons why..... not useing heat sink compound, distributor needs overhauled because it's creating too much heat, pick-up coil was not replaced when the module was replaced, aftermarket junk parts, and so on. You should always replace the pick-up coil when you replace the module, it's standard procedure in the industry. Here is a R&R that I wrote on how to replace your pick-up coil and rebuild your distributor...

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/057306.html

On the reliability issue... I can't tell you how many times I have seen the aftermarket ignition parts fail in 2 miles, 2 days, and 2 weeks. This is one area of the vehicle aftermarket parts cannot match. (fuel pump is another) If everything on your engine is working "correctly" your AC Delco coils, modules, and pick-up coils should last over 10 years and 100,000 miles. I can't stress enough the idea of properly matched components. The best plan for optimal ignition performance and reliability is using the original designed ignition system with a factory-matched module, pick-up coil and coil.

You could take my advice, somebody who has been through it all, or learn the hard way, it's your choice.