I just collected my first speeding ticket in over 25 years, I think I need to get a radar detector. Any advice--pros cons, mounting locations--models????.

honest ossifer I just took my eyes off the speedo for a moment I was trying to adjust my radio and my foot must have slipped on the gas pedal a little

In Michigan you'd better by a darn good unit that they can't detect your running, otherwise it just give them a reason to go after you for anything. I quit running one about 5 years back when the Police man walked up to my window stating "Your Radar Detector is no match for our equipment". I was running the best on the market detector at that time.

What you need is a radar detector detector detector. Why is "The Big Hit" playing in my head?

What you need to do is go by the rules and you will not have to worry about a ticket.
Don

why don't you just drive slower?

Not enough excitement?

My company makes photo radar units (yea I heard it all and them some), radar detectors will save your butt about 10% of the time dependening on the state of tech in your zone of habitation. Lidar units you really can't beat unless you move at the spead of light, splash effects encluded. Jamers are more effectual but if you get caught it's a FEDERAL OFFENSE!!! I can not legally recomend it. It's bad, it's evil, and if the FCC gets ahold of you, you will wish you lived in a third world country. The only good thing about it, there are very few FCC cops out there with equipment to nap you. They very best advice I give to people who want inside advice is to not to do more the 10 MPH over speed limits in known patroled areas. Never, ever run red lights. Never, ever drive under the unfluence. And if caught breaking laws, be polite, be respectful, do not admit to any wrong doing, and if you can't do that keep your trap shut and follow directions untill your lawyer shows up.

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yellow 88 GT, not stock

Depending on which review you read, Either the Escort 8500 or the Valentine V1 is the best one. For every review that says the V1 is the best, you can find another review that says the Escort is the best. Either one will work very well.
I have an Escort 8500 and it works great.

I think you just need to take a microwave oven apart, buy a power invertor, and mount the mag tube under the front fascia that ought to do it!

J/k!!! BTW, unless you want to die of internal burns after frying your ECM and breaking a TON of laws, I wouldn't do that!

[edit]: To further cover my ass, I'll also add that at 2450 Mhz, the microwave oven doesn't operate anywhere near X, K, Ka, or whatever band...

[This message has been edited by Blue Shift (edited 03-30-2005).]

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[This message has been edited by HellYes (edited 03-30-2005).]

don't speed in areas known to use laser..
by the time a detector senses laser you are screwed.. unless you get a laser jammer (which IS legal, radar jammers are not)
I use my wit as a cop sensor and the radar detector only as a backup for when I'm not at my best or when a cop is behind a bend/across a hill/or over a mile away on a long stretch just waiting for you.

One ticket in 25 years? You don’t need a radar detector. Suck it up and keep doing what you’ve been doing the last 25 years. Well, now that I think about it, did you just finish swapping a 3800SC or 350 into your Fiero? Maybe you should get 2
Anyway, way back when I owned a detector I clipped it onto the visor, cut the cord and tied into power at the map lights. No wires hanging or suction cups.

Tom

quote Originally posted by HellYes: I am exercizing my right to remain silent. I do not consent to any searches of my vehicle or my person. Please contact my lawyer.

Playing that game got my buddy an overnight in jail for a few miles per hour over the speed limit. Cop went in to power trip mode and hauled him in. My buddy's a clean cut, white guy, about 23 years old, driving a clean white Camaro - he looks more goofy than suspicious of anything - but he denied the 'search the car' request, simply because he felt like it (he doesn't have anything to hide, even has a Texas CCL)... If you have time to kill, clam up, play the lawyer card, and deny everything. It'll get you a stay in the county lockup.

quote Originally posted by ka4nkf: What you need to do is go by the rules and you will not have to worry about a ticket. Don

Please don't insult our intelligence.

The Mk I eyeball is just as good as a radar detector in most instances. A buddy of mine had a V1... I've seen him do some dumb things right in front of cops because he was relying on the detector too much.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 03-30-2005).]

I used to get tickets for doing 39 in a 30, 42 in a 35, 65 in a 55, etc, when I was not passing and just keeping up with the rest of the traffic. Haven't had a ticket since I got a detector. If the police in your area are using laser, then forget the detector. Reason: by the time the detector blows off, it's too late. I have a valentine 1. Only problem with the valentine 1 is that if you get up to within 10' of the back of certain GM trucks, it mistakes the brake lights for laser and blows off. Maybe valentine has fixed that now, but I would check before I bought another valentine 1. The valentine will pick up all of the regular radar bands, including photo, will not be detected by another detector, and will reach out over a mile in any direction even over a hill. My only recomendation is too get a good one, because the cheapos will drive you nuts with all of the false alarms created by cell phones, micro waves, etc. I could be wrong, but last count radar detectors were illegal in, West Virginia, and Washington, D.C., and in all of Canada.

They're also illegal in the Commonfilth of Virginia.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: unless you get a laser jammer (which IS legal, radar jammers are not)

Seriously? I only have a problem with laser - radar usually gives you plenty warning, but instant-on really chaffs my arse. I can see how shining lights is legal, but interfering with police equipment seems to be a bad thing......... Anybody know for sure?

quote Originally posted by California Kid: In Michigan you'd better by a darn good unit that they can't detect your running, otherwise it just give them a reason to go after you for anything. I quit running one about 5 years back when the Police man walked up to my window stating "Your Radar Detector is no match for our equipment". I was running the best on the market detector at that time.

HAHA where was this? I hope to god it was Oakland county sheriffs department cause they were lying their asses off to you. And if it was Macomb or Wayne they where lying too. As of 1 year a go, none of them had a Lidar, my only encounter with that was in Chicago. I spent 3 years tanning with Oakland county and I know many of their in and outs, and still have lots of friends there. If you get a good laser radar detector you’ll be fine. Now if you got to Chicago you might be in for a rude awaking... Huston too apparently. But in Niles you’ll be fine, ill doubt the Niles PD has a even a laser gun.

Last time I got pulled over for speeding I was alone and I told the cop pulled me over and asked me why I was going 86 in a 70 I told him that I was trying to get to the next rest stop because I have IBS and I don’t know how much longer I can hold it. He looked at me like he didn’t believe me and then he said ok its a mile up, go there. He followed me and I went in the bathroom for like 15 min when I came out the cop was still sitting there. I got in my car and left. He didn’t follow me but I spent the rest of the trip at the speed limit.

1 speeding ticket in 25 years. What's your problem. shut up pay the fine, LEARN SOMETHING, and then be on your way.
As for radar detection. What a WASTE. MOST systems will sound an alarm when the signal from the law has been recieved. IT'S TOO LATE AT THIS POINT. What your system just told you is, " the law knows how fast you are going, be prepaired, you will be pulled over soon"
The real high end units that avoid this kind of information processing, are far more expensive then that ticket you are about to pay.

Another note for those out west with detectors...beware of Oregon! The "freeway" speed limit is only 65 throughout the state and the state police have Ka and laser but don't usually use it, instead the've been using X band because everyone thinks they are false signals. I've almost been nailed twice in the last 3 years. Lately I've been staying just under 70 and haven't had any problem. BTW the roads in Oregon are in great shape due to the hefty traffic fines....$93 for not wearing a seatbelt and they go up quickly from there!

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http://www.raceme.cc/helmet/

quote Originally posted by Kohburn: don't speed in areas known to use laser.. by the time a detector senses laser you are screwed.. unless you get a laser jammer (which IS legal, radar jammers are not) I use my wit as a cop sensor and the radar detector only as a backup for when I'm not at my best or when a cop is behind a bend/across a hill/or over a mile away on a long stretch just waiting for you.

The radar and laser jammers that they sell (like the "phazer") as "legal" do NOT work. The only way to "jam" speed radar (it is a doppler style radar.) is to use a repeater style jammer and it is illegal, Noise style jammers won't work. As for laser, You need to absorb or refract (not reflect) the beam. Problem is you would need to cover the entire car for it to be effective. You cannot "jam" the laser it uses a pulsed beam so a CW beam will do nothing. By the time your detector goes off, he already has your speed.
Laser is not always on like most radar. The officer aims at your car then fires the laser. It's even faster than instant-on radar.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 03-30-2005).]

I dont really rely on detectors anymore. Ive got one for 3 cars, and it stays in the Ferraro. My eyes are my best protection and common sense where they hide. I trust my CB and police scanner more. If you have to have one, the higher you mount it the better because it will pick up their signals sooner. With photo or laser, your screwed no matter what. A side problem is if you leave it or the wire on the windshield, your asking for some thief to bust out you window to get it.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: If you have to have one, the higher you mount it the better because it will pick up their signals sooner.

Can only see it if you're inside the car... or lower than a fiero (ha!)

quote Originally posted by Oreif: You cannot "jam" the laser it uses a pulsed beam so a CW beam will do nothing. By the time your detector goes off, he already has your speed.

I disagree..... Yeah, just shining a constant source at it won't do anything..... But if you figure out their base wavelength, and pulse it at their rate, and overwhelm the reflected light, it'll just read like if you pointed it at a wall. What do they use? Infrared laser diodes?

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: I disagree..... Yeah, just shining a constant source at it won't do anything..... But if you figure out their base wavelength, and pulse it at their rate, and overwhelm the reflected light, it'll just read like if you pointed it at a wall. What do they use? Infrared laser diodes?

Sorry, That won't work. I work with lasers everyday for military use and jamming or blinding the laser diode is not as easy as you think. Their wavelength is 904nm. The pulse rate varies depending on the vehicle speed. They send out a base PRF (varies by manufacturer and calibration adjustment) and as your vehicle moves it reflects the pulses back at a different PRF. The unit subtracts the received PRF from the base and calculates your speed. (Actually the radar works the exact same way. It just uses a radio instead of light.) The only way would be to "jam" them would be to fire a laser back at the same wavelength but X 10 the photons so it couldn't see the pulses (basically burning out the receive sensor.)

The problems you would have would be first, You would have to hit the laser unit dead on. Since lasers are a direct beam and not a radio emission like radar. Not very easy to do in a movng vehicle without some very expensive military grade hardware.

Second, The laser you would be using would be considered a huge hazard and possibly by law be a weapon. With that much power at the IR wavelength, the human eye would not close the iris and you would burn the back of the retna causing permenent damage and/or blindness. I can assure you that if you are caught blinding traffic officers with a laser, The federal agents will also be visiting you.

Third, Even if you did fire back with a pulsed laser, You would need to know the base PRF (which varies by manufacturer and calibration adjustments.) in order to fire back the correct pulses to match the speed you want the unit to read. Hence you would need to build a repeater type of jammer. This would then receive the orginal laser, process it, and send it back pulsing at the speed you want. Of course it would need to know 2 variables. How fast you were going (could be tapped off the VSS sensor) and the speed limit of the road you were on. (It would be really bad if you had it set for 55mph and were driving in a 25mph zone. )

The police are only using 100uj of power in a pulsed beam that is roughly 4" in diameter when it hits your car 1000ft away. You would need 10mj on a 4" beam or 1mj at 1" beam to "blind" it. Now remeber the officer is looking thru a scope to properly aim the laser on a specific car. Even a 1" beam will be seen by his eye. At that power, he would be blind in the eye in about 3-5 seconds.
A laser pointer which is roughly 200-300uj of a constant beam can damage your eye in about 15-20 seconds and the laser pointer is using visible light so your iris in your eye will react and close some and actually try to protect your eye.

its pretty pointless to use a detector anyway, nowadays they dont hold out there beams like a bunch of num nutz, they click it AS you pass! no time but to get that ticket!!, there all a waste of money!, if you want to get something get a jammer, or something that will permanatly screw up there guns, and hard wire it into you main works, so that it can never be found on you., and btw dont ask the cop if you can see the radar gun (to prove your speed) youl go to jail
and any time you get a speeding ticket, ask the cop when the last time he calibrated his gun, they need calibrated every day before there shift!, if its not calabrated, the ticket is on him!.

Just wanted to add... I have an Escort 8500 in my Fiero.. Not exactly mounted, because the stupid suction cups keep popping off the windshield, but sometimes it's mounted.. I even bought new 'cups, and it does the same thing. My car must not like it. (suction cups go permanantly "flat" after about 1 month in my car....) Anyway, one REALLY REALLY annoying thing I've found with it -- when I nail the gas to go fast, something in the car sets off the LASER warning. The first 2 times it happened it scared the crap out of me, I thought I was bagged. (Can go as fast as I want and it won't do it, only on >70% throttle takeoffs) It's a horribly loud shreiking sound too, much worse than the radar warnings. Don't know if it's just something with my car / engine swap (3800SC) or what. I don't see how I can possibly be sending out Laser from my Fiero, so it's got to be some sort of interference. Unless I have an officer with a Laser gun permanantly glued to my butt...

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Bob Williams
Multi-colored '86 Mutt, a work in progress! (3800SC running great! Fixed the bent roof, now I need an intercooler! Yeehaa!)

Don't waste your money on a radar detector.

Just drive closer to the speed limit.

Ed

quote Originally posted by dezie36: HAHA where was this? And if it was Macomb or Wayne they where lying too.

Was in Macomb County on M-59, my Escort wasn't visible to him, but he knew, or assumed I was running a detector. I do OK with just staying focused along with the swivel head bit.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Sorry, That won't work.

Well... when you gotta fight fire with fire....... Time to build a farraday caged fiero, and blast out EMPs from a capacitor bank

Nevermind the other cars on the road, especially those with BlondeStar.

I was just kind of curious about the detectors. I'm normally a fairly cautious 5 or 6-over type driver. On the open road I usually pace myself at about 5 mph faster than the big rigs. I drive too many miles for my work to want to waste gas going too fast--usually. I actually bought the F-car for the economy--initially.
I got busted for 72 in a 55, about 50 yards inside the speed limit change sign. I WAS tweaking the radio, I'd just had the starter replaced an hour earlier that moring (It was a GREAT day) and all my presets were wiped out. I found out in that county courthouse from one of the county cop security guys that Columbia City (in IN on US 30) is notorious for lurking there--significant contributor to the local government revenue.
Live and learn and pay the ticket for the education. At least they have a remediation program that lets you get off with a flat fee and no reports or points on record. the fee was less than 5$ more than the actual fine and costs would have been

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: its pretty pointless to use a detector anyway, nowadays they dont hold out there beams like a bunch of num nutz, they click it AS you pass! no time but to get that ticket!!, there all a waste of money!, if you want to get something get a jammer, or something that will permanatly screw up there guns, and hard wire it into you main works, so that it can never be found on you., and btw dont ask the cop if you can see the radar gun (to prove your speed) youl go to jail and any time you get a speeding ticket, ask the cop when the last time he calibrated his gun, they need calibrated every day before there shift!, if its not calabrated, the ticket is on him!.

Actually, Working nights the radar detector has been great. At night the radar's by me are always on. I can pick them up over 1.5 miles away.
Anyhow, To each his own.

Asking a police officer to show you the gun will NOT get you arrested. It is the evidence by which he is writting the ticket. He doesn't have to show it to you, But he cannot arrest you for requesting to see it. That would be a big false arrest lawsuit. Asking the officer for the cal info won't work. He does not have to give you that info, But after you get the ticket you can send a written request his training record and the maintenance and calibration records. You will not get them as they will delay the request, But it can get the case dismissed in court. Since you requested them and they were not sent (they are public record and can be used in your defense), In court the prosecutor has to either get you a copy or dismiss the case. I have yet to see one provide the info. Everytime I had the case dismissed.

A good detector can be of value - as long as you recognize its limitations.

They're almost useless around town; too much interference from radar door openers, etc. Even if your detector filters them out, they're so much "louder" than the signals you're looking for that you probably won't detect it in time to do anything about it.

On the open road, they're VERY valuable. Some here will tell you that cops have instant-on radar so they're reading your speed when your detector goes off. That would be true if you were the only car on the road, but when they check the cars up ahead, you pick up the signal and get enough advance warning to make the necessary correction.

Laser detectors are another story, though - when one of those gives an alert, it's because your speed has been measured. Not much help there...

I have a $90 Cobra, and an old Radio Shack unit. I drive the same roads every day, usually at the speed of traffic, and know the normal background. The CHP doesn't seem to use stationary traps in my rural area--they are on the move, and I pick them up probably once a month or so--KA band. My detector tells me if anything unusual is going on. If it detects radar, and I'm a little over the limit, I at least have a chance to slow a little. I've detected well-hidden traps, too, but not often. Knowing the normal background is the key, in my area, for my driving style.

In fact, just this morning there was a photo trailer unit on a quiet side street on the way to the hospital. Never been there before. The detector went off, surprising me just as I rounded the corner. I braked (doing 27 in a 25, probably), and passed the unit at 21 mph. The guy in front of me blew past the radar unit, never slowing. I didn't catch his speed, but it was probably 35+. This is a good reason to own one, in my opinion. Those 25 mph zones, 2 blocks off the 65+ mph freeway, will getcha.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Sorry, That won't work. I work with lasers everyday for military use and jamming or blinding the laser diode is not as easy as you think. Their wavelength is 904nm. The pulse rate varies depending on the vehicle speed. They send out a base PRF (varies by manufacturer and calibration adjustment) and as your vehicle moves it reflects the pulses back at a different PRF. The unit subtracts the received PRF from the base and calculates your speed. (Actually the radar works the exact same way. It just uses a radio instead of light.) The only way would be to "jam" them would be to fire a laser back at the same wavelength but X 10 the photons so it couldn't see the pulses (basically burning out the receive sensor.)

Ok, here's a real physics based possibility... won't deal with laser, but should work nicely with radar.

Built a rotating gizmo with two or more arms on top and set it up with retro-reflectors on each arm so that as the retro reflector is pointed forward, the arm is moving backward. Controlling the RPM of the device controls the speed of the reflector.
The retro-reflector will likely be the strongest reflection from your vehicle. Since the reflector is going backwards relative to the car, it's going slower than the car relative to the radar. The radar will pick out the retro reflector signal and think that you are going more slowly than you actually are.
You you might need some "radar camouflage" to make sure that your car doesn't have any other strong reflectors (like the vertical surfaces of the front impact beam), but this is really no more complicated than lining your forward facing body panels (especially the front fascia) with course wire screen.

Now here's a question for those of you savy on radar operation... AIUI, police radar locks onto strong reflections and high speeds... how much stronger does a low speed reflection have to be to drown out a weak high speed reflection?
For instance, if I'm passing a Semi truck, how much faster than he will I have to be going in order for radar to pick up my speed over his? This also bears on the design of the retro-reflector device outlined above...

This thread reminds me of a Mythbusters Episode (scroll down).

I say just slow down a tad, and watch the signs - and the traffic ahead of you (see brake lights over the top of the hill? brake!).

Instant on radar was mentioned in several of the replies. Instant on will catch you sure if you are the only car within a couple of miles on the road. But..........a good detecter can sniff out instant on radar if there are other cars on the road besides your own, every time the cop zaps one of the cars in front of you. Aslso, a good detecter like a Valentine (the one I have) or Escort is not useless in the city, as it registers few false alarms. FWIW: Car and Driver magazine did a report several years back on laser detecters, which proved, as many of you have said, that your detecter or so called jammer, is useless. But they were able to make a car less susceptable to laser by blacking out the chrome, taping over the head lights, drining a dark colored car, and generally making the car less reflective to the laser gun. As I recall, they got the laser gun down to about 100' of reach to the car, any more distance and the laser gun would not register on the vehicle. Their laser proof car was not practical to drive of course. The only thing good about laser for us drivers is that the gun is very labor intensive for the cops to use, and can't be used by the police while driving, and as a result, most police don't use them.

quote Originally posted by Will: Ok, here's a real physics based possibility... won't deal with laser, but should work nicely with radar. Built a rotating gizmo with two or more arms on top and set it up with retro-reflectors on each arm so that as the retro reflector is pointed forward, the arm is moving backward. Controlling the RPM of the device controls the speed of the reflector. The retro-reflector will likely be the strongest reflection from your vehicle. Since the reflector is going backwards relative to the car, it's going slower than the car relative to the radar. The radar will pick out the retro reflector signal and think that you are going more slowly than you actually are. You you might need some "radar camouflage" to make sure that your car doesn't have any other strong reflectors (like the vertical surfaces of the front impact beam), but this is really no more complicated than lining your forward facing body panels (especially the front fascia) with course wire screen.

The thing with radar is it "sees" the largest closest returns first. Each vehicle has what is called a Radar Cross Section (RCS). Some vehicles like the Fiero and Corvette have a lower RCS than say a Grand Prix. The only way to fake out the radar is to give it a larger RCS in front of your car to see or make your car have an ultra low RCS. Anything that rotates will in effect reflect the radar waves better. Mythbusters tried numerous things to fool radar and the spinning thing on the roof allowed the radar to read the vehicle's speed sooner.
If it was cost effective, You could "paint" your Fiero with radar absobing skin and the police radar wouldn't be able to read your speed until you were less than 100ft away. This is how the stealth aircraft work. They don't become "invisible" to radar, It's just a fighter now has the RCS of a toy glider and a radar station 5 miles away can't see something that small.

quote Originally posted by Will: Now here's a question for those of you savy on radar operation... AIUI, police radar locks onto strong reflections and high speeds... how much stronger does a low speed reflection have to be to drown out a weak high speed reflection? For instance, if I'm passing a Semi truck, how much faster than he will I have to be going in order for radar to pick up my speed over his?

Yes you can use semi trucks and SUV's as "cover". You just need to keep their RCS inbetween you and the radar. Example: If you are doing 75mph coming up on a truck and the truck is doing 65mph with a police radar is straight ahead in the median, As long as the nose of your car doesn't go past the front of the truck, The radar will never see you. This is why they like to sit in the medians rather than the side of the road. It puts the faster cars closer to the radar.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: The radar and laser jammers that they sell (like the "phazer") as "legal" do NOT work. The only way to "jam" speed radar (it is a doppler style radar.) is to use a repeater style jammer and it is illegal, Noise style jammers won't work. As for laser, You need to absorb or refract (not reflect) the beam. Problem is you would need to cover the entire car for it to be effective. You cannot "jam" the laser it uses a pulsed beam so a CW beam will do nothing. By the time your detector goes off, he already has your speed. Laser is not always on like most radar. The officer aims at your car then fires the laser. It's even faster than instant-on radar.

I stated radar doesn't work - but then again their are ones that work but will land you in jail -- but laser jamming DOES work

http://www.radarbusters.com/support/product-tests/active-laser-jamming-tests.asp

[This message has been edited by Kohburn (edited 03-31-2005).]