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[This message has been edited by joshua riedl (edited 04-09-2005).]

quote Originally posted by WHEELIE: Alright!! Got my header flanges coming for my 96 3.4 dohc. Now all I need to find is the 3/1 collectors.I want nice smooth long ones.anybody know where? thanks ken (wheelie) wheeler

www.headersbyed.com

I used HeaderByEd for my Z34's set. OVERPRICED BIGTIME. But his collectors are nice. As for pipe, Stahl Headers has the cheapest I've found yet.

I never said that the WCF headifolds won't add power, but a good tuned set will add double if not triple the power without a doubt.

I did a lot of drawing, and I mapped out how I plan on running the DOHC headers. Mine will be slightly different than the sets I am going to sell, as the ones to be sold won't be true dual, unless the buyer specifies that he wants that. These should fit every other 60* V6 as well, with the only modifications needed at the flange. Of course I'd change the primary specs with a 2.8 though.

to see pics of my exhaust go to this thread..
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/049605.html
big room for improvement, dont you think?

Yah just a little bit...

Judging formt he pics, it is pretty tight back there. It will tkae a lot of work designing my headers for ease of install.

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[This message has been edited by joshua riedl (edited 04-09-2005).]

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: no answers on better tubing? headman elite series headers use 14 gauge tubing so that will be the only thickness i will use. say what you want but when you have a good experience you stick with it. so now the question is where do you get 14 gauge mandrel bends. jeff, if they can't be bought can your fabricator make them for us? i just noticed stahl headers sells boxes of bending mistakes. 50 lbs of bends should be enough.

Headman headers are the worst headers available. Period, no argument. Who cares if they last forever? My stock manifolds not only will outlast Headman headers, but probably outperform them as well. Plus they are still emission-legal.

Assuming your welds are good, which by having a shop do it they will be, 18 gauge is fine, but I'd go with 16. But why ot just put a braided flex pipe in their? It costs about $20, yet will save you hundreds instead of buying 14 gauge. IMHO, that is overkill, and assuming you make the headers well, you will nto run into any problems with durability.

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[This message has been edited by joshua riedl (edited 04-09-2005).]

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: your headers are the worst headers, period. you admit they leak in more than one place, everyone can see they look like crap and even you admit they sound like crap. a thicker tube is a stronger tube and a quieter tube. and obviously a stock manifold will outlast any header, good point on that one. just because you read the info page on headersbyed doesn't make you the all time authority. some people would rather have a clean look over equal length. no one is arguing that equal length doesn't make more power so stop getting all excited when other people don't want the extra hassle and mess of extra tubes in their engine compartment. so go about your buisness, try and sell leaky $800 dollar headers that spray paint can't even fill in the pit holes and the rest of us will try and make a quality product for ourselves.

Let's stray away from the bashing eh? That is my opinion, and I did not bash anyone personally on this thread. I criticized a company, but as the owner of a company, that is to be expected.

About my headers, whatever. I don't even need to argue, I taught myself how to weld in 1/2 hour, and that was my first set. That was my mockup, that was my test set. IMO, they turned out great, and I think they look awesome as well.

The headers I make aren't going to be like mine. They will fit perfect, they will not leak, they WILL sound bad (that is good btw), and most of all, they will make a 3.4L DOHC outrun a L67 with ease. And I didn't read his page, hell I will honestly never reccomend anybody to him, and his word is definately not the word of God. And they will be coated by Jetcoat, and that is not a spray paint...And as for the spray paint on my set, I was under the impression that is was a professional $260 ceramic coat done by American Coatings in southern California...I aplaud you taking it upon yourself, it is a great experience to have, and I wish you luck. We need all the 3.4L DOHC enthusiasts we can get. Thicker tubes are stronger, and they will help keep some of the noise insulated, which will also improve the car's sound slighty, but overall, I'd rathe rhave the performance. But in my opinion, it is an additional cost that is not neccessary, and could go towards making more power.

Break...... for standing 8 count, take a deep breath, every one here makes valid points. Some find one area more critical, others find others,
that in and of it's self makes no one right and no one wrong just different. The tubes are essentially Helmholtz (sp?) resonators, the exhaust
pulses travel at about the speed of sound, and most bends won't affect the timing of the pulses at any one collector more or less than 1/4 wave-length not enough to sneeze at. There is a point of diminishing return on your effort, and only you yourself can find that point.
Having that miracle set that had every bend, weld, and millimeter of length dialed in to the enth degree would be very peaky and behave like a mismatched turbo.
OK ....GENTLEMEN back to the program ... keep it clean

Norm

Josh, I dont know what you meant by that? He orders a box of bends, anyone can, heck thier in my summit racing catalog. So if that was your question, you could order them yourself. If your question was could he do the finish welding, yeah he can. he cant (as far as i know) make mandrel bends, he orders boxes of bends and collectors. He has several different styles of collectors that he bought for his big block, so if you want we could go over there and take a look at them and see what style we want. he can help direct us to the right place to order them. We should go over there anyhow, he's got one heck of an impressive header set going on for his 57 chevy. Hes doing like slip ins(?) where their not all one piece because he cant get them in there with just one piece headers. anyhow, i think that i covered your question???

[This message has been edited by fieromadman (edited 02-27-2005).]

16 gage is plenty thick. Many of the bend suppliers offer only .049 wall, and that is a bit thin in my opinion. Type mandrel bends at your search engine as a start to see just how many suppliers there are.

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[This message has been edited by joshua riedl (edited 04-09-2005).]

anyone know where to get the donuts for extra tight bends?

I dunno if this helps, but I plan on using stuff from burns stainless. They have all kinds of header building supplies. As the name states they mostly have stainless and some aluminum. They even have oval tubing. If the oval tubing came in a smaller size it looks like it would match right up to the 96+ ports.

These people don’t list their pre-bend stuff, but try calling them.
I bought a bunch of tube from them about 6 months ago.
http://www.tubesol.com/html/contact.html

quote Originally posted by XzotikGT: I dunno if this helps, but I plan on using stuff from burns stainless. They have all kinds of header building supplies. As the name states they mostly have stainless and some aluminum. They even have oval tubing. If the oval tubing came in a smaller size it looks like it would match right up to the 96+ ports.

For matching the 96 ports, I have found that using a 1 5/8" diamter pipe, cut it right down the middle for about 2". Then spread the edges apart, leaving a V openign at the top and bottom. Then fill this area in with similiar sized sheet metal. It may take a bit of length, 2-4" minus the bend, but it is a clean, cheap, smooth solution. As for the 91-95 ports, you will need a way to lower it from about 2" to your desired diameter. I used bells for this, they are really smooth.

The cheapest pipe I have ever found is from www.stahlheaders.com. But if anyone find cheaper, please let everyone know, I'm sure the company will appreciate the business, and prices might even go farther down.

Honestly, you may need more J bends than you think. When I bought my "set," it came with 10 U-bends, 2 J-bends, and 4 straight sections of 1 5/8" pipe. If I was to do it over again, I'd buy 10 J-bends, 2 U-bends, and no striaght pipe. The striaght sections I have were longer than the U-bends tails, but perfect for the J-bends. I would have saved AT LEAST 1-2 welds on each primary if I had moe J-bends. Trust me here, in this tight of a setup, you will consider J-bends to be a blessing. But you should not need to buy any striaght piping, I didn't use any of mine. So do what you want, but coming from someone who has built headers on a similiar configuration, J-bends are 100% worth the extra 20 bucks.

Josh, yes he's almost always home, that looser

www.kurtcarloni.com should have his phone number if you dont have it. I have off work today if you would like to go out there with me, give me a call after 3 262-567-7254

I will be using them unless I find cheaper (not likely). Also I'll be buying $1200+ worth of pipe, so they should cut me quite a deal.

As for collectors, I may go with headersbyed, cuz I used his once and liked them, but if I could find similiar ones for cheaper I'd like to. His stuff is not cheap. His collector was about 6" long, so that or even longer would be ideal.

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[This message has been edited by joshua riedl (edited 04-09-2005).]

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: i just got my flanges. they look pretty good. they have little nicks on the inside of the port where the cut was started but otherwise are perfect. i'm at work so i can't tell if they are oversized or not to put the tubes through them or if they have to be butt welded.

Normally they need to be butt welded, cut to the exact size of the port. This is also how I prefer it. Be careful welding it, if you stay too long in one spot, it will easily warp the flanges and then they leak (Guess how I figured this one out?)

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[This message has been edited by joshua riedl (edited 04-09-2005).]

hmm.. nice to know, because if i dont go with headers right away i was gonna swap a front manifold to the rear and run a custom crossover. Looks like the ol porting tool might finally have to get put to use knowing my budget. Thanks for the info Josh! BTW, you got a pm...

Yes that is correct, the top of the ports are slightly more rounded. But if you notice the ports are consistently about 1/8" bigger than the ports on the ehad, all the way around. Therefore when you flip it over, it does not block the outlet flow any becuz it is oversized.

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[This message has been edited by joshua riedl (edited 04-09-2005).]

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: well i can flip my flanges around and stack them with the bolt holes lined up and they show at least 1/8 inch being blocked. i'm sure you are right though.

thats just the flanges though - if you want to really do it right use your flanges as guides to portmatching te heads to the headers with the one flipped ..

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[This message has been edited by joshua riedl (edited 04-09-2005).]

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: well i just went out to put the flanges on my spare engine to prove me right and learned a few interesting things. the most important being they don't fit. not a big deal, i find things like this humorous. the one piece flanges are spaced too far apart. so everyone may as well order the seperate pieces because i'm going to have to cut mine anyway. the second thing is they are oversized and will allow the tube to go through the flange, i'm happy with that because it will allow them to be welded on the inside and outside. third as far as the blockage goes, i'm right. it's less than an eigth inch because the flanges are oversized so i can't say what the stock manifolds look like, maybe the same, maybe worse. hope this helps.

Very odd indeed. Maybe the flanges aren't the same as the manifolds are, cuz my manifolds are oversized slightly compared to the head. You should email the company and let them know that they don't fit.

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1988GT 5-speed
Black with grey leather, I pick it up this May!
1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed
14.78 @ 92.688, high 13s at sea level
1992 Lumina Z34 5-speed
Stock, new crate engine and trannsmission

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[This message has been edited by joshua riedl (edited 04-09-2005).]

True, but if you apid for something, the least they can do is get it right. And operating a laser cutter isn't hard, just transplant into it the CAD image.

Now I am worried about ordering from them, as I am going to need MANY different styles of flanges.

just out of question, why are you gonna need many different types of flanges??

Well I am building them for every 60* V6 Fiero, not just the 3.4L DOHC.