yep 1.5 weeks of owning it and its leaking coolant like a hydrant out of the back head!! (head near window), im not going to damn this thing and tell everyone not to own one, there all crap ect..., im going to fix er up and keep on truckin like it wasnt anything, i have a few questions tho, i know il have to remove the upper and lower intakes (replace gaskets), but the big question is the exaust conected on the back head, im not going to try to unbolt it from the head, i know better, but with it all attached would i be able to lift the head high enough to slide the old gasket out and slide the new one in??, or would it be eiaser to unbolt (torch) the exaust couplink right down the manifold a ways., any comments???

1.6 rockers...

while i have the head(s) apart i was thinking about going and grabbing 12 rockers (junk yard) off a 93 to 95 chevy 3.1L, they are 1.6 lift while mine are 1.5, i budy of mine (wolf on the 60*v6 board) sais that its completly doable with no alterations at all, im kinda hesitant, i dont want to screw up this pristine motor!, but i could use the extra 13hp and full power rpm range for $12!!! $.99 a rocker., whatcha think about them cookies?

damn chevy 2.8's and there head gaskets!!!!! grrr! il slowly get over it, the car is old and it sat for a 10yr period. still grrr!!!

oh i found an intake gasket set (for a 3.4 chevy) (yes it fits my 2.8) it includes both intake gaskets and valve cover gaskets for $ 17.00,. for the 2.8> head bolts for $11.99 and head gasket for $8.00, doing the work myself so itl be cheap! just a pita!!!

1.6 rockers will NOT get you an extra 13hp. It's more like 2hp at the most.
If I remember correctly the 3.1 and 3.4L rockers are all 1.5 ratio. 3100/3400 aluminum headed engines might be 1.6 ratio.
I am not sure if the 3100/3400 aluminum head rockers will work on a cast head.
The 3.4L head gaskets will not work on the 2.8L. The cylinder bore size is larger on a 3.4L.
3.1L and 2.8L have the same size bore and the head gaskets are interchangable.

Yes you can remove the crossover ("Y") pipe and leave the exhaust manifold on the head.

The 3X00 engines have 1.6 rockers. There is some debate on whether the non-roller rockers are 1.5 or 1.6, but it is believe that they are 1.6, but the roller fulcrum 3X00 rockers are definatley 1.6, the downside to those is that they are not just a bolt on, you have to modify the head to make them work.

I don't think you will see a 13hp increase, but I do think it will be more than a 2hp gain. The gain should be somewhere in the 5-8hp range. It does bring lift from .394 intake/.410 exhaust to ~.420 intake/.437 exhaust, which isn't a huge difference, but its noticable, but you also have to remember that they will also open the valves at a faster rate. It doesn't compare to a cam swap at all, but it should definately make a noticable difference. However, if you can get them for $.99 each, that is, even if its only 2hp, a pretty good power to $ ratio.

Shawn

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1990 Dark Red Grand Prix STE McLaren 3.1L Intercooled Turbo
Magnaflow Mufflers, No Cat, K&N Filter, Chip (10psi), 160 Tstat.
14.695 @ 94.49 w/2.228 60'
3100 Topend Swap, Crane H260 Cam, UD Pulley since PB. 13.957 @ 99.34, G-tech
1990 White Cutlass Calais 442, Quad 4 HO/Getrag 282.
FOR SALE: $500

[This message has been edited by dbtk2 (edited 01-31-2005).]

quote Originally posted by dbtk2: but I do think it will be more than a 2hp gain. The gain should be somewhere in the 5-8hp range. It does bring lift from .394 intake/.410 exhaust to ~.420 intake/.437 exhaust, which isn't a huge difference, but its noticable, but you also have to remember that they will also open the valves at a faster rate. It doesn't compare to a cam swap at all, but it should definately make a noticable difference. However, if you can get them for $.99 each, that is, even if its only 2hp, a pretty good power to $ ratio. Shawn

Yes the lift changes, But the duration (time the valves are open) is still short. There is not much flow increase by increasing lift and keeping duration short. On a stock engine that was dyno'd, The increase was about 2hp. Another thing is the exhaust opening at .437 is very iffy. The stock springs could bind a little at that lift. Usually with lifts over .420 it is recommended to change the springs.

, even if it does only give a 2hp gain, it changes the power/ to rpm ratio, more up high, where as the stock crap cam lacks, it should balance out pretty well, oh and the rollor rockers, they will work, it was a past project of mine to prove people wrong (the people that said they wouldent work), you have to use donor parts from like an 80's 2.8 (the stud), and have to grind a lil on the rockers, (they touch when installed on head, without a lil grinding), and you have to get a 8/1mm lock not for the top., the socket barly fits in there but it works!!! dyno'd a 14hp gain, and smothen out the rpm range, no more power loss at 5000rpm (this was done to a 95 iron head 3.4 v6 (camaro) (which my stock fiero still walks all over lmao!)

oh and im only getting the intake/valve cover gasket set from the 3.4, your have to be a complete moron to think that the 2.8 and 3.4 have the smae bore/ water passages. lol,... sorry for the mis "typing" on that first post. lol my bad

any warnings before i replace the head gasket? things to watch for. (just for the record) it looks like its the very corner of the headgasket that blew out (corner closest to the driver)

[This message has been edited by 88 forumla (edited 02-01-2005).]

Questions for you to think about before putting it back together. Is the leak strictly external? Is there any coolant in the oil? Did you clean the top of the block and the head thouroughly? Are you planning to use the old head bolts? Do you have a torque wrench and a torque sequence diagram? These are some of the major, but not all of the considerations to deal with.

unless your using the edlebrok (spelling) valve covers, the valve cover gaskets wont work either.... they are cork, the fiero uses RUBBER ONLY and specifically for the fiero. i don think ANY other vehicle came with the rubber gaskets like the fiero uses, however the fiero gaskets are re-useable, but if they are more than a year old, i wouldnt re-use them.

matthew

quote Originally posted by Jim Krause: Questions for you to think about before putting it back together. Is the leak strictly external? Is there any coolant in the oil? Did you clean the top of the block and the head thouroughly? Are you planning to use the old head bolts? Do you have a torque wrench and a torque sequence diagram? These are some of the major, but not all of the considerations to deal with.

thats what I was wondering - is it the head/head gasket thats leaking? theres also the intake manifold, and the coolant crossover pipe. but, the car did sit for 10 yrs. and, sounds like its just gonna be a tear down & re-assemble w/new gaskets, so, have at it - enjoy! be sure to check the head for flatness. if you want even more power, while you have the heads off, port them. along with the intakes. adds alot of time to the job.

"unless your using the edlebrok (spelling) valve covers, the valve cover gaskets wont work either.... they are cork, the fiero uses RUBBER ONLY and specifically for the fiero. i don think ANY other vehicle came with the rubber gaskets like the fiero uses, however the fiero gaskets are re-useable, but if they are more than a year old, i wouldnt re-use them."

Brand new fiero valve cover gasket
Fel-Pro
Part# VS 50271 R 55424
Pontiac V6
Fiero '85 - '88
173 (2.8L) Engine
Replaces 10034707

WHAT????

First you posted this:

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: 1.6 rockers... while i have the head(s) apart i was thinking about going and grabbing 12 rockers (junk yard) off a 93 to 95 chevy 3.1L, they are 1.6 lift while mine are 1.5, i budy of mine (wolf on the 60*v6 board) sais that its completly doable with no alterations at all, im kinda hesitant, i dont want to screw up this pristine motor!, but i could use the extra 13hp and full power rpm range for $12!!! $.99 a rocker., whatcha think about them cookies?

By the above it sounds like your "friend" did the mod and you are making sure it can really be done so you don't screw up your engine.
Then you post this:

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: even if it does only give a 2hp gain, it changes the power/ to rpm ratio, more up high, where as the stock crap cam lacks, it should balance out pretty well, oh and the rollor rockers, they will work, it was a past project of mine to prove people wrong (the people that said they wouldent work), you have to use donor parts from like an 80's 2.8 (the stud), and have to grind a lil on the rockers, (they touch when installed on head, without a lil grinding), and you have to get a 8/1mm lock not for the top., the socket barly fits in there but it works!!! dyno'd a 14hp gain, and smothen out the rpm range, no more power loss at 5000rpm (this was done to a 95 iron head 3.4 v6 (camaro) (which my stock fiero still walks all over lmao!)

Which sounds like you already did the mod to a 3.4L and dyno'd a 14hp gain. This is pure
First off, The "power/to rpm ratio" isn't controlled by lift, It's controlled by the split between the intake and exhaust lifts AND durations.
With 1.6 rockers you are only increasing lift by .027 and you are doing it equally to the intake and exhaust so there is no change in the power curve. You are only slightly increasing the power curve by 2hp and this is only at the peak hp rpm which doesn't move.
Second, Do a search for an article call "Fiero's all fired up". They take a Crane H272 cam and install it in a Fiero 2.8L and gained 15hp out of it on a dyno. Now the cam is a .454/.480 lift 272*/284* duration. These are roughly a 20% increase in lift AND duration to gain 15hp, Now you want us to believe a 7% increase in lift ONLY will give you a 14hp gain???? No way.

As noted above, since you say it was a valve cover, A 3.4L valve cover gasket will not work on a Fiero valve cover.

What area of the rocker gets ground down a little?

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: yep 1.5 weeks of owning it and its leaking coolant like a hydrant out of the back head!! (head near window),

that sucks,
hope it isn't leaking into the engine too. I guess you could get lucky like I did with my head gasket:

(1988 pontiac sunbird 2.0 OHC 4cyl) We were driving back from Chicago and it blew on the interstate. Coolant was going into the cylinder. White exhaust, hot motor, green milky oil. I said screw it, drove it home (80 miles total). Temperature guage was just under the red the whole way home, heater was working intermittently because coolant was low (it was in winter), and it was belching out a good smoke screen. I later replaced the head gasket (didn't even mill the heads or block), bolted it back together, changed the oil (creamy green color). It's running today (2 years later) and has an additional 15,000 miles on it...no problems.

Unfortunately, my luck is all used up from that one

good luck
Dave

i know that the fiero uses rubber gaskets, and i also know that its a waste of rubber!, not needed! cork is fine, and if your thinking that the valve cover is designed different..well that same 3.4 ive been talking about has fiero valvecovers, with the 3.4's gaskets, works fine., and the part on the rocker that i grinded was the sides, it was the little lip that goes around the acual roller part of the arm, and if you want to get technicle, it was a "moving mass" weight reduction. to grind it.

i drove the car to orientation today (im starting a new job) it was all highway driving about 40mon drive, when i got there i parked the fiero, and went to look under the car...no leaks..when i came back 2 hrs later, still no puddle or leak or anything., and i was running about 3,000 rpm the whole way., and i havent lost any coolant in the rad/motor/resivour at all in the week that its been leaking., oil is slightly gassy (not really) but valvoline dura blend come out of the bottly smelling like crap to start with, so i dont know whats going on here., no exaust smoke at all, motor runs like new., can i get a diagram of the coolant tubes that run in the back of the motor? i cant find any.

does anyone else find this post humorous?

just so you know, if your using fiero valve covers the Cork valve cover gaskets will leak like crazy on there.

NO WAY will the stock fiero alloy valve covers work with cork gaskets.

matthew

Although I know the 1.6 rockers will give you more than 2HP, they will not give you 14. I have them on my formula. 5-7 maybe but not 14. I'd say more towards 5 than 7 even.
Also, as Oreif already stated, the stock valve springs are supposedly only rated up to .420 lift so going beyond that might cause bind. I changed to Crane valve springs when I put my 1.6 rockers on. I'd rather be safe than sorry. I wish they gave 14 HP but they don't.

As for cork gaskets; even if they did fit, cork is garbage. They don't last long.
I had the Edelbrock valve covers on my old engine and I really liked them but I sure didn't like having to use cork gaskets with them since the Fieros wont fit those. The Edelbrock covers also don't have the channel that holds the gasket in place like the stock covers do.

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Activities Director N.I.F.E.

www.fierofocus.com

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: i know that the fiero uses rubber gaskets, and i also know that its a waste of rubber!, not needed! cork is fine, and if your thinking that the valve cover is designed different..well that same 3.4 ive been talking about has fiero valvecovers, with the 3.4's gaskets, works fine., and the part on the rocker that i grinded was the sides, it was the little lip that goes around the acual roller part of the arm, and if you want to get technicle, it was a "moving mass" weight reduction. to grind it.

I cannot believe this is a real person. First he says: "have to grind a lil on the rockers, (they touch when installed on head, without a lil grinding)" Now he says it's ""moving mass" weight reduction" ?????????? If the tip of the rocker touches the head, It isn't centered on the valve and will damage the valve rather quickly. I've built two 60* V-6's from the bare block up in the past 2 years and nothing you are saying is correct.

The Fiero valve covers will NOT work with cork gaskets. The valve cover will not seat to the head. It has a 1/2" channel and the cork gasket too thin.

Please quit trying to BS everyone.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 02-01-2005).]

ok you biches seriosly dont have to jump down my neck for being stupid, yes im feeling dumb, i have a few problems with the cork gasket, they leak, the bastard that put em on said that they were fine, but i asked him again and now they leak, so im sorry for that BS misunderstanding. il go with the $17 rubber ons, and the grinded part on the rocker is balanced, no off side grinding , i did it smothly not ghetto., and how will a narly cam work with the stock springs, but a sissy .1 bigger rocker is going to bind them??? dont think so, so when you put the 1.6 ers on ur forumla did you notice a difference? 5hp isnt alot, but compared to 130hp, it should make a small difference., mabey a 10th in a 1/4 mile??, i did purchase the rockers today tho, 6 out of a 95 grnad am 3100v6, and 6 out of a 94 cutless 3100v6, il admit i was worried about the springs before you guys even brung it up, but im doing it anyway, i might as well be the first to try this crazy risk right? well see., im hoping to get all this work done in 2 days, thurs and fri. .

im new take it easy on me would ya!

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: and how will a narly cam work with the stock springs, but a sissy .1 bigger rocker is going to bind them??? dont think so,

No we put in new springs. Even Dave above stated he installed new springs with his 1.6 rockers.
We are just letting you know about the springs so you are not re-doing the same work next weekend.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 02-01-2005).]

ive heard somewhere that the stock springs were used, unfortunatly i cant prove it right now., i wont argue that there to weak for the rockers. i wont say that you didnt "told me so" but im trying it anyways, im not judging, but most of you people are the type of people that sais "if it doesnt cost an arm and a leg and bolt right in, then it dont fit" im the complete oppisite of that., but ofcorse im a moron, i race a minivan. with a v6 front wheel drive. N/A i bent the rules so much on that motor! ended up with 200 hp out of a stock 140hp and theres not one single bolt on for it! not even a k&n filter!!.

ive already "bent" the rules with putting V8 accel spark plug wires on my fiero (V6) the do-it-ur-self kinds, i cant count the number of people told me that they wont work....it allways works

[This message has been edited by 88 forumla (edited 02-01-2005).]

quote Originally posted by 88 forumla: ive heard somewhere that the stock springs were used, unfortunatly i cant prove it right now., i wont argue that there to weak for the rockers. i wont say that you didnt "told me so" but im trying it anyways, im not judging, but most of you people are the type of people that sais "if it doesnt cost an arm and a leg and bolt right in, then it dont fit" im the complete oppisite of that., but ofcorse im a moron, i race a minivan. with a v6 front wheel drive. N/A i bent the rules so much on that motor! ended up with 200 hp out of a stock 140hp and theres not one single bolt on for it! not even a k&n filter!!. ive already "bent" the rules with putting V8 accel spark plug wires on my fiero (V6) the do-it-ur-self kinds, i cant count the number of people told me that they wont work....it allways works

The people who told you those wires wouldn't work are stupid. A do it yourself wire set will work on anything since you're putting them together and cutting the size to fit. My thought is, judging by your writting, that you explained what you were doing incorrectly and that's why people told you it wouldn't work. Either that or you're just BSing again which is also likely.
The stock springs aresupposedly rated for up to .420 lift so a bigger cam, that's above 420 lift, or 1.6 rockers should have better springs installed which is what I did. There are others who have used the stock springs with bigger rockers or cam in the past but I have heard of problems from some of them so I put the springs on to be safe, which is what I said above in the first place if you took the time to read it instead of getting defensive.
Why would you sit there and tell people that cork gaskets work if you're leaking? That's diliberate misinformation. Why would someone do that? This forum is here to help people with what they're doing with their cars and here you are trying to screw people up with bad information. That's why you're getting the reaction from people that you're getting. That's just wrong and friggin crappy on top of it.

wel sooooory! i was telling you what i was told, i didnt know my sorce was dumb and wrong. il only do it 1nce, sorry bout that.