Long time reader first time poster.

Someone said Albert Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results. That’s exactly how I feel working on the hydraulic clutch of my sons 86 Fiero GT, 2.8L, 5 Speed. I'm out of answers and have finally reached my limit of frustration with the Fiero .I'm going to either find the problem within the next week, set it on fire (just for revenge), or sell it to the highest eBay bidder.

My son bought the Fiero four years ago. It currently has 89K original miles. During the time we've owned the car we've easily spent twice the purchase price in repairs and upgrades. Of course you know the trap. Each time something breaks you weight the loss of getting rid of it or continuing to fix it. The Fiero is a blast to drive, but it's been broken as much as it’s been driveable.

The current and most reoccurring problems have been clutch issues. In the last 4 years we've replaced the master cylinder at least 5 times, typically for leaking at the fire wall. The slave cylinder has been replaced 4 times, mainly for letting air in the system. The 5 speed manual transmission has been rebuilt once. The cutch has been replaced 3 times, 1st time for slipping, 2nd time just because the transmission was out for repair. The third time (6 months ago) because someone though popping the clutch off the line would be fun.

Today the clutch will not fully disengage. We have a homemade jig that allows us to mechanically push the clutch arm the required 15/16”. This allows us to separate the problem. We get good disengagement with our jig, therefore we know the problem is not in the bell housing.
Within the last month we’ve:
(1) Replaced the Master Cylinder again (it was leaking at the fire wall again) it’s a good thing Advance Auto offers life time warranties.
(2) Replaced the Slave cylinder again. Because after bleeding the system we would not get the required amount of travel and when we took the slave off it would have air in it. Also after bench bleeding the slave we could completely submerse the input line and bleeder end in brake fluid while we actuated the plunger. After a few strokes we would start pushing air out. So we believed we must be drawing air around the umbrella ring.
(3) Replaced the Hydraulic line, just to eliminate it.
(4) Installed a new steel petal from the Fiero Store
(5) Installed Rodney’s adjustable banjo (and yes it’s pointed up).
Yet I can not get more than ¾ of inch of travel out of the slave.
I’ve read every fourm thread that discusses hydraulic clutch issues. I’ve tried every bleeding method I could find on the forum and on the internet.
When using Archie’s method the pedal just keeps getting softer after each stroke and the fluid level barely goes down.
When I try the gravity method I jack the front of the car up 3 ft and can only get a small amount of fluid to flow.
I have a vacuum bleeder, but I can only get a couple cups of fluid to flow before it stops. If you increase the vacuum the umbrella ring in the slave will start to pass air.

We have our own method of bleeding where we bench bleed the Master and Slave, vacuum bleed the line by itself, and then put it all back together. After using this metod and with the slave not installed the clutch pedal is nearly rock hard. But even after all this we can only get 3/4" of travel out of slave cylinder.

Sorry for being so long winded, but I wanted to give a little back ground. I’m at my wits end. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Sounds like you have done all the right tests. There really isn't too many things to consider in this system. Normally you'd check for slop at any mechanical joint (Clutch pedal pivot points, clutch-piston connection, master cylinder-firewall, and then slave-bracket, bracket-tranny, slave piston-lever, lever-tranny) If everything there checks out, you are only left with one option...assuming as you say, the clutch is fine...and there is absolutely no air in the system, there must be a leak. And that only leaves the master and slave cylinders, and any lines or fittings connecting the two together.

If you want my opinion, if you haven't already came to this......stop buying from advance. I've had so many problems with them, I refuse to even enter their stores now. Even if it may be a couple bucks more or a few miles further.....seriously I don't trust anything they have.

[This message has been edited by FierceGT (edited 01-24-2005).]

Are you saying you don't bleed the system again after you get it all back together? I would think it would be nearly impossible to reassemble the slave to the bracket, and then the line to the slave without losing a little fluid, and getting some air in the system. The fact that you go thru so many master cylinders makes me think you either have a misalignment problem of some kind between the pedal and the MC, or the MCs you are getting are inferior. Have you checked to see if your clutch pedal is bent?

OK, I re-read your post and see you have tried the usual bleeding methods with poor results-hence your way of doing it. Something's amiss. The vac pump should have no problem pulling fluid from the MC. Heck, on mine, if I raise the front end, and break the bleed screw loose on the slave cyl, every drop of fluid will drain out of the entire system. Is your clutch pedal sitting about 1" above the brake pedal?

There is a difference in the bore sizes of different cylinders. It will make a difference.
I can't remember now if all the slavecyls are the same diameter and the MCs differ or viceversa, but it does make a difference if you use the wrong setup.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-24-2005).]

I don't know about bore sizes either, but there are two versions of each cylinder. If they are not the same size, that might be a source of problems.

After replacing the slave cylinder on my Formula, I tried three different procedures to bleed the system without success. Every time the pedal felt fine, but I couldn't get full clutch disengagement. I finally built a homemade pressure bleeder. See http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm for plans. You can also order a similar one completely assembled here: http://www.trackhaus.com/category-exec/category_id/7. After hooking it up, It only took about 30 seconds of bleeding to get ALL the air out.

Regarding Advance Auto, I haven't sworn them off completely, but I have also had numerous problems with their parts.

I killed our turkey baster myself, last Oct doing the brakes on my old Jeep. Forgot all about till Thanksgiving Day--and found to my chagrin and wife's anger that Walmart was closed for the holiday. Bad Don!! Bad!

That setup---Formula owner, looks like it would be great for both a one man bleed system, and great for doing a complete flush and bleed too-on brakes and clutch systems.

Well I decided to take the Fiero to Midas to see if they could bleed the system with their pressure bleeder. After two days they gave it back to me and told me the master cylinder is bad. They said that it is leaking at the fire wall. This is nuts. I guess I'm going back to Advance Auto and get another one. The last time we took a bad one back Advance offered to give my money back. I would take them up on it if I knew a place to get a good one. Any suggestions?

Thanks for those that responded.

quote Originally posted by davetec: Well I decided to take the Fiero to Midas to see if they could bleed the system with their pressure bleeder. After two days they gave it back to me and told me the master cylinder is bad. They said that it is leaking at the fire wall. This is nuts. I guess I'm going back to Advance Auto and get another one. The last time we took a bad one back Advance offered to give my money back. I would take them up on it if I knew a place to get a good one. Any suggestions? Thanks for those that responded.

I have owned every year Fiero but the 88, and all have been stick shift. From owning these cars I have seen something that will solve your problem that will take a few hours to do.
First off there are two designs on the master cylinder for the Fiero, I will call these 1st design and 2nd design. The 1st design has a support on the back of the housing and prevents any movement, these are found on the 84 and 85 Fiero's. The 2nd design is on the 86 to 88's, these do not have the back support that the 1st design has and are prone to leaking and heres why. When you add pressure to the lines (pressing down on the clutch pedel) you are causing the plastic resurvor to move slightly because of the non-support the 2nd design has, this causes the rubber o-ring to get torn and eventualy leak, let in air, and cause instant insanity when trying to bleed the air out as it is now impossible to do so. You can rebuild these with new o-rings but over time the caseing will warp and a new set of o-rings will leak the day you put them on.
The way to correct the problem is get a 1st design and put that on your car, you WILL have to reroute the hydrolic lines because where the line connect are in different places but it is worth the effort.
Does it work? I HAVE NEVER had any problems with my 84 and 85. I had to rebuild the 86 and 87 master cylinders three times a year untill I swaped the 2nd design on both cars for the 1st design, I have yet to this day had any problems with the master cylinders after the swap and that was 6 years ago one the first swap I did.

quote Originally posted by davetec: I would take them up on it if I knew a place to get a good one. Any suggestions?

I'd have to say the most reliable place I know would be NAPA, unfortunately they are also about the most expensive. But I usually go to Auto Zone and haven't had any problems with them. I don't know if you have those down there though. Maybe O'Reileys?

I have one major suggestion to stop the slave from sucking in air - this has worked for me every time.. pack the dustboot with heavy hightemp grease..
I'm actually supprised by your masters leaking - I've never seen anyone have this problem before

Anything new on this?

We recently purchased another master cylinder. After 4 new ones from Advance Auto we gave up on them and bought a new one from NAPA. We used our old method of bleeding (that use to work), but still only get about 3/4 of inch of travel from the slave. We are in the process of building the power bleeder that "Formula Owner" recommended. We should get a chance to try it this weekend. I will continue to post our progress. I know from experience how frustrating it is to read about someone else having the same problem your having, but they never bring it to conclusion. Did they fix it or give up?
Thanks to everyone that responded.

Keep us posted...

I have a question..... having to replace the master and slave numerous times due to failure, and never getting the maximum travel of the slave, have you ever considered using GM parts?

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Profile? In 20 years... Auto Detailing, Auto Body, Classic & Antique Restorations, Mechanic, Engine Performance Specialist, Porsche-Jaguar Tech, Wholesaler, Sales, Independent Full Service Repair Shop, Vehicle Vinyl Graphic Design and hard-core auto / aviation enthusiast... now searching for a new career. What a ride!

Update:
Well, we built the power bleeder. With the slave cylinder bleeder valve removed it took about an hour to push a quart of DOT 3 through. We tightened everything back down and we still only get about 3/4 of inch of slave travel. I’ve got the adjustable banjo so tight I can bottom out the master, but still can not get the required 11/16” of travel. I'm down to looking for something weird. I'm going to take the master and slave off and verify diameter and travel distance. Then I’m going to put them on a short piece of tubing to validate one to one travel. This is crazy, but it’s not going to beat me.

If I could find an OEM Master and Slave I would have bought them already.
Thanks

quote Originally posted by davetec: I'm going to take the master and slave off and verify diameter and travel distance. Then I’m going to put them on a short piece of tubing to validate one to one travel. This is crazy, but it’s not going to beat me.

good attitude. fieros are like big dogs, if you let them sense your fear, youre done for.
i think your validation approach is correct. as i read the thread ive been thinking "what if the slave and master are mismatched?" i'd even be tempted to try to find a matched set out of a junker.

Here's the latest update. We don't have the car fixed yet, but think we may have found our problem. The slave cylinder's inside diameter is larger than the inside diameter of the master cylinder. The master is .8125 and the slave is .9375. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that means even if I have it perfectly bled the slave will never move as far as the master. It's impossible to get the one to one ratio mentioned in the Archisms. The newest master came from NAPA. The newest slave come from O'Reillys.
I'm going to order a new slave from NAPA making sure I get one from the same manufacture. Of course it's about this time that we remembered that when we bought the first slave from O'Riellys is when we could never not get enough travel out of the slave.
I will post again after I get my new slave cylinder.

Some current info on cylinder sizes..........

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/059892.html

Davetec
I just moved to Barksdale last month. If you need another wrench sometime, PM me, it would be great to help. I don't have much experience with bad hydraulics, fortunately my 87 has not given me trouble yet, but I have learned alot about the rest of the Fiero! Anyway, I am availableif you need me.

Dwayne

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84 Sport Coupe
87 GT 5 Spd

quote If I could find an OEM Master and Slave I would have bought them already.

The master is available at any GM dealership or GM Parts Direct.

The slave takes a little more work to hunt down, but you can find one if you look.

I took everyones advice and found a GM dealer that could order both the master and slave cylinders. Over $320 for both, but worth it if it fixes the problem. I will let you know.

Thanks to everyone that provided information.

Dave

quote Originally posted by davetec: Update: Well, we built the power bleeder. With the slave cylinder bleeder valve removed it took about an hour to push a quart of DOT 3 through. We tightened everything back down and we still only get about 3/4 of inch of slave travel. I’ve got the adjustable banjo so tight I can bottom out the master, but still can not get the required 11/16” of travel. I'm down to looking for something weird. I'm going to take the master and slave off and verify diameter and travel distance. Then I’m going to put them on a short piece of tubing to validate one to one travel. This is crazy, but it’s not going to beat me. If I could find an OEM Master and Slave I would have bought them already. Thanks

If all else fails, like in my case, you could lengthen the rod or shaft at the end of the slave cylinder. I used an old hardedend bolt and cut it down to the length I needed and rounded the ends. Prior to doing that, I had replaced every clutch system part there is, some twice, to no avail. I got fed up, used a longer rod and was done with it in 15 minutes. No problems since.

[This message has been edited by 87GTSleeper (edited 02-20-2005).]

Bump, to keep this thread near the top. There's so much guessing going about the clutch hydraulic system that it's hard to know what's correct. I bought my '88 Formula with shifting problems two years ago. I think the lack of good release probably contributed to the failure of the Getrag third gear synchro. Replaced the transmission with an Izusu. Cannot get the clutch to release. New master and slave. Bled many times. The only thing that hasn't been replaced is the line, which is next. The transmission release lever is good. The slave moves immediately when the clutch pedal is depressed, just not far enough. I extended the slave push rod by added a 12 mm socket to the end of it trying to take any slack out of the sytem...no help. I have Rodney's adjustable rod on the master. No help. If I take all slack out, the system locks up. What's really digusting is that my '86 GT clutch releases perfectly...and I've never bled it or anything.

Just a rant.
Robert

Please describe further 'the system locks up'? Do you mean that air gets in the system and it fails?

"Locks up". If I remember correctly, I didn't have any slave motion when there wasn't any free movement at the clutch pedal nor would it bleed fluid by gravity. I think a hole in the master has to be uncovered by backwards movement of the cylinder so that it resets.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by westtexas:
I extended the slave push rod by added a 12 mm socket to the end of it trying to take any slack out of the sytem...no help.

I never tried extending the slave cylinder rod. The only time it should help is when the slave cylinder piston is bottoming out (fully extended), before moving the clutch arm the required 15/16 of inch needed to completely release the clutch. If you lengthen the slave cylinder rod the slave cylinder compensates by pushing excess fluid back to the master cylinder reservoir. Hydraulic clutch and brake systems self adjust to compensate for pad wear. The spring in the master cylinder keeps its piston tight against the banjo and therefore the pedal. The spring in the slave keeps its piston tight against the clutch arm. As the clutch pad wears the distance between the two pistons increases and more fluid is drawn out of the master cylinder reservoir to compensate. Therefore self adjusting it self to compensate for wear.

http://imageevent.com/lynchfamily/davetecstuff

87GTSleeper wrote

"If all else fails, like in my case, you could lengthen the rod or shaft at the end of the slave cylinder. I used an old hardedend bolt and cut it down to the length I needed and rounded the ends. Prior to doing that, I had replaced every clutch system part there is, some twice, to no avail. I got fed up, used a longer rod and was done with it in 15 minutes. No problems since."

Lets assume Davtec is right, and his explaination looks good to me. Why did 87GTSleeper get good clutch action when his slave rod was extended?

Not knowing his specific situation, I can only guess on some possible scenarios. But all of them still say the slave was bottoming out or the piston was jamming before reaching its full travel.

If the diameter of the master and slave cylinders are the same size (per Archism #7) I would have one to one movement between the two cylinders. If the master cylinder is pushed in one inch the slave would push out 1 inch (assuming no air in the hydraulics).
My current master cylinder has a maximum stroke of 1.5 inches, which means I should be able to push my slave out 1.5 inches. Of course we know that if everything is correct 15/16 of an inch will provide full clutch release.

http://imageevent.com/lynchfamily/davetecstuff?n=0

1.If the clutch arm was rotated on the fork shaft so that the slave cylinder was near the end of its travel then the slave might bottom out before traveling the needed distance.
2.If the rod from the slave cylinder was not the correct length to begin with. It might allow the piston to bottom out before it traveled the needed distance.
3.If something was wrong with the slave cylinder wall that would not allow the piston to travel the full distance. Then it might cause this type of scenario.
4.If the spring in the slave cylinder is broken or missing and not keeping the slave cylinder piston tight against the clutch arm. Then the master could push the full distance, but the slave piston would need to push out to the clutch arm before moving it. Therefore the clutch pedal could be on the floor before the slave can release the clutch.

Of course these are just guess.

The local GM dealer called and said my new master and slave are in. The thing I'm most anxious to learn is if they are the same diameter.

Davtec, very knowledgeable answer on possible scenerios of a longer pushrod making a difference. I assumed that his slave was in good condition and everything stock...because that's the way mine is. But you are right, he may have had to fix a problem by lengthening the pushrod.

I considered resetting the clutch arm so that it engaged quicker. Removed it from another Izusu I have laying around and found that there's a section of splines on the shaft and arm that fixes it in place. From what i could see, the limited number of splines on the arm and shaft means the arm will slide on the shaft in only one position. No option of readjusting the position.

The differnces in clutch and slave cylinder diameters may designed that way to increase the leverage at the clutch arm. I checked every clutch master cylinder and slave I have, all had smaller master cylinders diameters than slave cyclinder diameters. I think it would be worthwhile to adapt another cars master with a larger diameter.

Your drawing is excellent. It shows the rise and fall of the clutch line as it leaves the master cylinder. With all of the lore about bleeding the line, I wonder how gravity bleeding could possibly get the air out of that arch. Air bubbles rise fairly rapidly in the master cylinder when I pour more fluid in. They would rise slower in a smaller diameter steel line but still could outrace a drip flow of brake fluid. Power bleeding would do it...if the flow was fast and furious. A post I read about power bleeding said that it took around 30 seconds to push a quart through. I believe that would do it. A hour isn't power bleeding.

I hope your GM parts do the job. I'd like to know how they are superior. We need to know if the parts houses are selling junk. A lot of frustration can be avioded if we know that we have to have the GM parts and NAPA masters are useless. (Mine was made in England)

quote Originally posted by westtexas: Bump, to keep this thread near the top. There's so much guessing going about the clutch hydraulic system that it's hard to know what's correct. I bought my '88 Formula with shifting problems two years ago. I think the lack of good release probably contributed to the failure of the Getrag third gear synchro. Replaced the transmission with an Izusu. Cannot get the clutch to release. New master and slave. Bled many times. The only thing that hasn't been replaced is the line, which is next. The transmission release lever is good. The slave moves immediately when the clutch pedal is depressed, just not far enough. I extended the slave push rod by added a 12 mm socket to the end of it trying to take any slack out of the sytem...no help. I have Rodney's adjustable rod on the master. No help. If I take all slack out, the system locks up. What's really digusting is that my '86 GT clutch releases perfectly...and I've never bled it or anything. Just a rant. Robert

sounds like a bent clutch pedal to me -

I went to pick up my new GM master and slave cylinder today. As Fiero luck has it, the slave was the wrong one. Of course then they show me on the computer that the original slave is NO LONGER AVAILABLE. But they do claim they have a recommeded replacement. I guess we will see next week when it comes in.

quote Originally posted by davetec: the slave was the wrong one. Of course then they show me on the computer that the original slave is NO LONGER AVAILABLE. But they do claim they have a recommeded replacement. I guess we will see next week when it comes in.

Don't buy it.

The "recommeded replacement" is nothing more than a aftermarket slave in a GM box at a much higher price...

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/049165.html

Did you have them run the original slave part number on the nationwide parts locator?

If you come up empty handed there, my next step would be to find a nice used working GM slave in good condition and rebuild it to perfection.

[This message has been edited by Skybax (edited 02-25-2005).]

Dude, I thought I was the only one who thought they were fighting a never ending battle with the clutch gremlins. I've had my 85 2M4 for 11yrs only on the road about 50% of the time due to clutch. Here is what I learned .
1) DO NOT BUY from Discount/Advanced , lifetime warranties are great if the products were really going to last that long.( bought my slave through the Fiero Store)
2) If you have to put in a new pressure plate make sure you put a metal ruler across it to make sure it was plained right.
3) do not extend the slave cylinder rod (that worked great till it put the throw out bearing through my pressure plate fingers, 6 months later).
4) check your clutch fork were the throw out bearing touches , for grooves worn into it replace if needed.
5) make sure you have the little plastic insert that snaps into the Banjo of the master cylinder/ if applicable .
AND finally my latest discovery hair line cracks in the stamped metal clutch arm that the slave cylinder pushes against. Even if you have the cast (pot metal) version I'd really examine it. I spent all of new years eve & day pulling the tansmission for no reason, come to find out the arm was cracked and took only 15minutes tops to pull & replace.
I don't know if any of this will help in your case ,
Maybe this info will help some one else though.

"3) do not extend the slave cylinder rod (that worked great till it put the throw out bearing through my pressure plate fingers, 6 months later)."

"I never tried extending the slave cylinder rod. The only time it should help is when the slave cylinder piston is bottoming out (fully extended), before moving the clutch arm the required 15/16 of inch needed to completely release the clutch. If you lengthen the slave cylinder rod the slave cylinder compensates by pushing excess fluid back to the master cylinder reservoir. Hydraulic clutch and brake systems self adjust to compensate for pad wear. The spring in the master cylinder keeps its piston tight against the banjo and therefore the pedal. The spring in the slave keeps its piston tight against the clutch arm. As the clutch pad wears the distance between the two pistons increases and more fluid is drawn out of the master cylinder reservoir to compensate. Therefore self adjusting it self to compensate for wear."

I feel like we are in a fog here. One person says lengthening the slave push rod cannot make a difference and another says it will extend too far and will ruin the throughout bearing.

My clutch pedal isn't bent. It's an '88 steel pedal. I've examined it, even added Rodney's adjustable banjo to take any slack out. The slighest movement on the clutch pedal results in movement of the push rod in the slave.

Packing the slave boot with grease may be a solution for me when I try to vaccuum bleed. I may be sucking air past the cup. I'll try it. Thanks.

The way I see it, problems can be caused by one or a combination of problems at once:

1. master cylinder
2. leaking clutch line/air in line from poor bleeding
3. slave cylinder
4. clutch arm
5. throughout bearing/clutch fingers

I understand the difference between a mechanic and me is the ability to diagnose problems and not throw parts at it. I hope this thread will bring some clear thinking to this problem.

Robert

Well now, I'm very concerned for the well being of my project. I'm in the middle of putting a 350 in my fiero and got a getrag for it. I purchased a salve cylinder from gm and had no problems getting it. However, I didn't know that there is a "suitable replacement". Since I have the car apart I'm going to go and check the measurements on the bores.

I didn't mean to create controversy over extending the slave rod. Simply put, after replacing all the clutch system parts and carefully bleeding the system, I still needed about 1/2" of travel to get the clutch to release.

At the time, in my mind, I wanted less fluid in the slave. I don't know if it was due to a new clutch and TO bearing or what but my master cyl was at max travel and I was not getting enough movement in the slave to release the clutch. Reducing the amount of fluid in the slave by extending the rod by the exact amount of travel I needed worked for me. I did not like having to do that. In my mind I should not have had to. That said, my clutch works. I know some say extending the rod should make no difference. What can I say? I don't believe in majic and my stuff works. After I stopped throwing new parts at it and actually started to think and really make my best attempt at troubleshooting, extending the rod is all I could think of that may solve the issue and it did.

I do realize this may not work for you but it did for me. I'm just passing this along in an attempt to help.

quote 3) do not extend the slave cylinder rod (that worked great till it put the throw out bearing through my pressure plate fingers, 6 months later).

That's been my concern with an adjustable banjo on the master cylinder as well. I'm not even sure it'spossible, but it seems to me that IF the clutch pedal is bent, making the MC banjo rod longer will result in longer than designed travel of the MC piston, thus longer than designed travel of the slave rod & piston. Maybe I'm envisioning something that can't physically happen tho.
I looked hard at my clutch pedal and the U-braket and stud the banjo fastens to. Couldn't see it being bent in any way, so I went with an adjustable rod. I lengthened it ONLY enough to get 15/16 travel on the slave rod. Still not quite 1" above the brake pedal but works fine.

I have noticed something odd of late tho. I sometimes get a soft clutch pedal and hard 1-2 shifting--only when making a right turn. A quick pump of the pedal and all is well. Doesn't happen often-but it's definitely there and confined only to right turn activity. Air?

A plus to Davtec for hanging with this thread. GT87Sleeper, I gave you a plus earlier for your door hinge thread. I like your explaination for the longer pushrod. Who knows what's going on in that slave? I don't. Perhaps less fluid is more. Perhaps pushing the slave piston against the end of the cylinder helps. Worth a try, before I spend more money on a new clutch line. It's cheap, if it doesn't work...for me....one more possible solution tried and discarded. I buy brake fluid by the half gallon, they keep the shelf stocked for me.

Maryjane...a possible cause for right hand turns and your clutch pedal going soft....centripetal force is pushing the slave piston towards the drivers end of the slave causing slack between the pushrod and the clutch arm. Try turning slower during right hand turns

Please, no flames, I'm trying to have a sense of humor about this clutch thing.

I don't think the clutch pedal is going to have more stroke with a square bracket or a bent bracket and an adjustable banjo. I believe the arc will be the same...of course my clutch isn't working right now, so my thoughts are definitely without credibility.

Just FYI, I bought a new clutch master cylinder for my 88GT
several years ago from the dealer. It was listed at $109. Part
#10079730. I also bought a new slave cylinder, but don't have
the reciept for it (part #10038878). I've never had a leak from the
firewall. I replace it because the seals were going out and I had
alot of black junk at the bottom of the resevoir.

I also have a clutch slave cylinder rebuild kit I got from Napa
(in 2000), before I went with a new one from the dealer. It cost
$35. Has anyone tried a rebuild on their slave? Just wondering
as all I've ever seen is people buying a new one. Don't even
know if they are still available. Part #1947

My basic problem was the clutch was just wearing out and
needed replacing.

[This message has been edited by Larry Nakamura (edited 02-27-2005).]