ok, the stock motor in my 86 GT is done for...has been for a long time now actually. i've finally got some money to where i can start fixing the old girl up. eventually i'm planning on a SBC swap but for now i just want a 2.8 in it so i can at least drive it and this leads to my question. I know that the best way to swap a motor is to drop the cradle but i have no way of hoisting the car up. so is it possible to remove the motor from the top?? my mechanic told me that it wasn't possible but i'm thinkin that he just wanted me to believe this so i would take it to him. if it's not possible, is there any way of doing this myself without having a car hoist?? this is my first fiero and to tell you the truth it has been sitting in my garage for the past year slowly being taken apart. any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

It is possible, but if you have the capability to take the engine out the top, you can lift the body off the cradle. I can drop an engine in 1:45, but it took me and a friend 8 hours to pull an engine out the top, it was a "it cant be that bad, lets do it, just to see if its really that hard" kinda deal. YES IT IS THAT FREAKIN HARD! not really, but in comparison to the breeze of dropping the cradle, its not worth it. You have to take off all the extra crap, even the tranny mounts to squeeze it out, and then you're risking breaking the rear window.

BTW, Ive got a good 2.8 FS if interested. Marion Ohio

i'll be dropping the cradle ina few days, pulling the quad and getting ready for the 3800 i want to put in. any tips/tricks you guys have learned that would help? ive got access to a cherry picker, floor-jack and a few jackstands. how would you guys suggest i go about doing it?

quote Originally posted by ShaddowGt: i'll be dropping the cradle ina few days, pulling the quad and getting ready for the 3800 i want to put in. any tips/tricks you guys have learned that would help? ive got access to a cherry picker, floor-jack and a few jackstands. how would you guys suggest i go about doing it?

here ia post on how to pull the cradle to do a clutch but it is a very good one
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055063.html

[This message has been edited by fierobrian (edited 10-20-2004).]

I've done it both ways, and here's what I've found:

1) Pull the center console, and take out the computer and loosen the driver's side harness (including the backup switch and ALDL) to go out with the engine. Trust me on this. Much easier than fishing the harness off the engine. Do this whichever method you use.

2) Disconnect everything else at the engine. This means dogbone, slave cyl, exhaust (Y-pipe), hoses, fuel lines, ground straps, etc. Also remove the deck lid. These you will also do in either case.

3) Get under the car, remove the brakes and axles, and also all the engine/tranny mount bolts. On the engine mount, remove the two nuts from the bottom. On the tranny mounts, try to remove the mounts at the tranny casing, so the mounts themselves will stay on the cradle.

4) Lower the car on jackstands, and use a hoist to raise the engine/tranny out through the top, taking GREAT CARE not to break the rear window, and making sure everything is disconnected as it comes up. In retrospect, I should've used a piece of plywood or something to protect the window.

I have had a unit out in less than an hour, without air tools (no BS), but I had done it many times, and already knew what size each bolt was, etc. You will need to be patient in doing this, or you will break your window or something else. It would also help to have someone there to assist you when you lift it out. I had to lift mine about an inch to clear the edge of the trunk. You will definitely need a spotter while you are lowering it back in, so you can be under the car lining the mounts back up.

As for the other method, there is an excellent procedure outlined at www.v8archie.com so I won't go through that method here. I will, however tell you some problems I had in doing it that way.

-A cherry picker alone wouldn't cut it. If you have a big picker, then you might be able to just use that. I had to build an overhead hoist out of 4x4s and 2x10s. This set me back about $200 in wood and tools, not to mention time to calculate angles and build it. It weighs about 200 lbs, and is very difficult to move around by myself.

-I had a heck of a time removing various bolts that had seized up. Particularly, the forward cradle bolts had to be cut out, thus another specialty tool was needed (after I wasted weeks with WD40 soaking, heat torch teatment, impact wrenching, etc).

In all fairness, I have only done this once. It was necessitated for a V8 swap. You will also need to do this if you want to service the cradle mount bushings. And everything does come out (eventually) in a nice neat package. You won't have to worry about the window.

Still, if all I was gonna do is swap 2.8s, I would just pull it out the top. But that's just me...

Good luck either way, and let us know what happens.

[This message has been edited by Hulk (edited 10-20-2004).]

just dropped my first cradle.

as said above, I removed the center console, unplugged the connections, and fished the wires thru the firewall. This way you don't have to disconnect all electrical connector to engine (sensors, etc). There were two "plugs" going thru the back firewall. I just fished the one closest to the driver thru (computer/guages). The one on the passenger side doesn't have to be disconnected as it goes along firewall to battery area...not connected to engine.

I raised one side of the car at a time. Raised side one, supported cradle with a hydraulic jack, removed cradle bolts, lowered cradle onto 20X30 furniture dolly ($25 at Lowes, holds 900lbs). Did the same for the other side. I then raised the vehicle using jacks/jackstands until the rear was high enough to slide the cradle out the side. I just disconnected the shock tower bolts (3 on each side) and the whole assmebly comes out with the cradle. Better than removing axles and stuff....I'm just replacing my engine though.
Dave

My engine just came out the top.

If you are putting a fresh engine in, you have to remove the stuff anyway.

Mine did not have a plenum on it so that helps.

We used a Cherry picker, no sweat.

[deck and vents off]
Alot of bolts to undo, alternator off, main pulley off, starter off, block drained of all fluids, battery out, crossover off(not really necessary).

It took about an hour, but that does not include time to remove all the wire connections etc. We also had air guns, which is a really big time saver.

Good luck either way. I was lucky. I had a pro to stickhandle the job.

Arn

[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 10-20-2004).]

thanks for all the hints and help guys, i thinkt that i'm gonna try it thru the top...next time i take it out when i swap the SBC in i will lower the cradle, figure out which way is easier myself. i just needed to know if it was possible. so thanks again!

If you can rent or borrow a hoist:
I found an 1986 Fiero Gt with a 2.8 L V-6 and I was told it had
a 5 speed but after picking up the wrong clutch kit we found it
had a 4 speed in it. The car was in rather poor shape at a
friends garage. The owner couldn't pay to get it fixed, the
clutch was broke. It had 2 bolts than came loose and the rest
were broke off. I gave him $250 for it and now its mine. I drove
it for a few months after getting it working.
I found a Northstar for sale in the Indiana Auto and RV. I got a
4.6 L V-8 "L37, 300 H.P. and 295 FT torq." it came out of a 1993
Cadillac Seville STS. I paid $1,100.00 for a complete engine,
wiring harness, alternator, starter, A/C compressor, power
steering, oil cooler, motor mounts, the E.C.M., most of the
heater core tubing, both exhaust manifolds and the Y pipe.
Step by step swap:
1. Pull the Fiero in the garage
2. Drain the oil from the motor, while the motor is still warm
3. Disconnected the battery and removed it
4. Disconnected the ground cable near the dipstick
5. Gave the motor time to cool
6. Drain the water from the cooling system
7. Disconnected the wires from the ECM and pushed them through
the firewall
8. Disconnected the wires from the wiring harness near the
battery tray
9. Removed the louvers
10 .Mark the position of the compartment lid
11. Removed the trunk/hatch lid
12. Removed the air filter system
***DO NOT REMOVE THE TORSION ROD RETAINING BOLTS
13. Remove the torsion strut bolt
14. Disconnected the throttle cable from the throttle body
15. Disconnected the cruise control cable from the throttle
linkage
16. Labeled all hoses just incase they could be used in the same
location
17. Removed all vacuum hoses
18. Disconnected the fuel line fittings from the fuel rail
19. Removed the clutch slave cylinder and shield
20. Removed the shift cables, the back up light switch, and the
speedo sensor connection
21. Removed the lower radiator hose and the heater hose from the
water pump
22. Removed the A/C lines from the compressor and the A/C wiring
harness
23. Removed the lower engine strut front bolt
24. Raised the Fiero up approx. 28" off the ground
25. Removed the rear tires
26. Disconnected the parking brake cables
27. Removed the brake calipers and hung them with clothes wire
28. Removed the suspension struts
29. Removed the nuts from the front engine cradle
*** DO NOT REMOVE THE BOLT YET, THE MOTOR WILL FALL
30. Put a transmission jack under the motor and the cradle
31. Remove the rear bolts and then all four cradle bolts
32. Lower the motor/transaxle/cradle
***A MOST: mark the cradle and measure the loction of the motor
A. measure from the sides of the cradle to the center of
the crankshaft
B. measure the height of the center of the crank to the
cradle
C. measure from the corner of the cradle to the center of
the crank on both sides
33. Disconnect the rear of the motor from the transaxle
bellhousing
***LEAVE THE TRANSAXLE MOUNTED AT THIS TIME
34. Remove the motor from the cradle
35. Drain the transaxle
36. Coat the engine cradle and transaxle with "Gunk or Hog wash"
and let soak
37. Use a brush and remove all gease, oil, dirt, and other grime
38. Wire wheel the engine cradle and sand it down
The motor removal is done!

------------------
Bobby from NW Indiana
93 Northstar and 5 speed Getrag
thespeedshop@sbcglobal.net
My build thread

the first time i ever removed an engine, i dropped the cradle. all i used was a funriture dolly, and 2 hydrolic floor jacks. pulled the engine out through the passenger side wheel well. the car only had to go up about 4 feet high. i would never do it any other way.

i believe that i'm gonna try and drop the cradle as opposed to going thru the top. one question i did have was that all i have to do is un-bolt the cradle (and of course all hoses, wires, etc), then the strut mounts and the WHOLE assembly will come out, engine, tranny, axels, and all?? i've replaced small blocks in cars b4 but the whole fiero thing is new to me so have patience.

i'll have access to a heavy duty cherry picker when i do it. thanks for the run down on the how-to, shouldnt be very tough, though im not pulling a v6, rather, my quad is coming out in favor of a 3800SC.

------------------
88 Quad Coupe

MY EMAIL IS: sage14823@hotmail.com
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-Patton

quote Originally posted by fastblack: i believe that i'm gonna try and drop the cradle as opposed to going thru the top. one question i did have was that all i have to do is un-bolt the cradle (and of course all hoses, wires, etc), then the strut mounts and the WHOLE assembly will come out, engine, tranny, axels, and all?? i've replaced small blocks in cars b4 but the whole fiero thing is new to me so have patience.

Yes the whole assembly will come out as a unit on the cradle. It's basically a matter of disconnecting everything that connects the engine to the car and then lifting the car off of the cradle. Leaving the cradle sitting on a dolly. You then roll the dolly through whichever wheel well is convenient. I ve done it at least four times just using a long 4x4 and two high lift floor jacks. And a low dolly of course. The most difficult part especially if your dolly is too high is getting the car high enough to clear the struts.

Here's instructions per the Big Fiero Parts book for out the top (6cyl).

1. Remove CV joints with drive shafts from transmission
2. Remove all coolant lines
3. Remove the computer and feed wires out the firewall. Drape over engine. Remove battery cables. Disconnect the positive power feed at the battery block. Disconnect the C100 connector and remove only the section of the connector associated with the wires which will be removed from the car.
4. Remove the alternator and the alternator bracket.
5. Remove the upper and lower AC compressor brackets and then the compressor itself, Tie the compressor onto the firewall to secure.
6. Remove the coolant transfer pipe located above the ac compressor.
7. Remove the clutch slave cylinder and shift cables or transmission coolant lines with gear select cable, manual or automatic
8. Remove the coil and alternator air cooling pipes and heat shields
9. Remove the engine and transmission mounts, dogbone.
10. Remove the engine and transmission out the top as a single unit.
11. Reverse for installation

------------------
White 84 SE with the Duke, Holley TBI, Rodney's Cat

got some pictures of "out the top" in the link in my sig. floor jack, 2 sawhorse brackets from home depot, 5 2x4s, 1 2x6, a comealong and a couple of chains.

------------------
'84 2m4 se, a work in progress http://www.mtsu.edu/~mkr2c/fiero.htm

Perhaps Lurkers platform can be used to take it out the bottom too. Thanks Lurker! When the struts are disconnected attach the chains to the wheel wells there and lift the back end up off the engine cradle and transmission. Where do we get these enormous jack stands?

if i were going to try to lift the car off the cradle, i think i'd use 2x6's all around, and i would be very skeptical of the home depot sheet metal sawhorse brackets. but the brackets were really just a quick fix, and with some creative cutting and a couple of bolts you could dispense with them altogether. if you shape the leg ends right, the more weight you put on it, the better they grip the crossbeam.

hmmm, well, my garage is barely wide enuf to fit my car, so it looks like it'l haveto come out the back. just that much higher i have to lift it.

This may be a rather odd method now, but I can have an engine out in 1.5 hours now by going out the bottem...

I use a cherry picker, connected to the trunk latch. Disconenct everything from up top, lift the car a few inches and slid a dolly under the cradle. Lower it back down onto the dolly and then put just enough tension back on it so when I unbolt the cradle nothing will fall. Unbolt everything, and lift car with cherry picker. roll teh engine out and set the car back down on stands.

I relize this could be risky, but I'v never so much as bent a trunk latch, let alone break one by doing this. Do NOT leave the car suspended for any lenght of time longer then to pull the cradle out from under it. Once the car is up in the air, support it by other means if you have to work under the car or leave it up in the air. I'v been told hooking onto the support behind the bumper is much safer, but I'v never done this yet...

------------------
Original Blue 87GT 5spd.
Modified 2.8L V6

Centerforce Dual Friction, H4 Blue headlights, Cleared Taillights, Mr. Mikes Leather, MoMo Carbon Fiber Steering Wheel, Lowered 1.5", Konig Verdict 17" Rims, Power everything, Speed Hut Gauges, Short Shifter, Ported Manifolds.

Great info guy. It will help out in my swap also.
Is there a way to remove the cradle and rear suspension together?
I want to unbolt the struts from up top and roll the complete unit out.

yeah you just unbolt the struts from the top, and brake calipers or lines, and it will all come out together.

On the method pertaining to dropping the cradle, by just unplugging wires, suspension, and brakes. What about the tranny? I have an Iron Duke with automatic tranny. Won't shifter linkages and throttle body cables need to be disconnected too? Yall make it sound so easy, but I'm afraid it won't be.

------------------
'87 Iron Duke A/T
Mods:
Transgo Shift Kit, MSD Coils, Spiltfire Wires, K&N Filter, Ultimate Dogbone, Catco Highflow Cat, Chrome Exhaust Tips, Pilot/Cyber White Headlight Kit