This is the fourth axle I have tried. In the picture above-on the left is the #9572 axle from a 94 pontiac transport/3800/4spd auto
-on the right is the outer end from a manual Fiero------In no way shape or form will that axle end fit into the Fiero outer joint. It is way to big in diameter.
I am coming to wits end on this issue and was told this combo would work.
Any suggestions.

The ones I used from my car worked fine , they have very high milage and I decided to go buy new joints but they only sale halfshafts, so I bought one took it all apart and found the same problem you have they use a smaller center on the outer joint. I have a few extra sets of axels and they would all fit ?? Mine was from a 5 sp getrag no idea if that makes a differance or not , I dont see how it would on the outer joint,

------------------
'87 GT
93 3800sc series I / 4t60e
7.597 1/8mile ET
1.579 60'
88.53 mph

Let me say that we tried a pontiac 6000 axle---too long
we tried a manual fiero LHS axle on the right---too short--failed upon first test drive
we had a custom axle welded up---the fiero axle lengthened 2"---too long-binds transmission
and now I thought we had the right combination-?????
what happened?

Jeff, in your other post - https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055555.html - you said that you built your own mounts... How did you do the trans mounts? Did you use some stock mount and modify it, or something along those lines?

Hope you don't mind me following along here and asking for info. I doubt I'm going to be able to help you very much, but I will be dealing with the same issues very soon, just trying to make sure I have my ducks in a row before I get there.

Can you use the inner race from the Transport, balls and ball cage from whichever fits and outer race from the Fiero?

[This message has been edited by Stinkin_V8 (edited 10-19-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Stinkin_V8: Jeff, in your other post - https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055555.html - you said that you built your own mounts... How did you do the trans mounts? Did you use some stock mount and modify it, or something along those lines? Hope you don't mind me following along here and asking for info. I doubt I'm going to be able to help you very much, but I will be dealing with the same issues very soon, just trying to make sure I have my ducks in a row before I get there. Can you use the inner race from the Transport, balls and ball cage from whichever fits and outer race from the Fiero?

We slotted the Firewall side mount and then used the factory points trunk side. The same as everyone else does.

------------------
4.9 Caddy in Garage! Car in Driveway! ACK!

****************************************
http://home.cfl.rr.com/fierose
Central Florida Fieros
http://www.centralfloridafieros.org

Are you using OEM Fiero axles ends or trying to use an aftermarket unit? All the OEM Fiero manual trans axles I have used have the same size and spline inner axle as most GM FWD cars/vans with the exception of those equipped with HD trannys. I am wondering if you got a Fiero auto-trans sized axle somehow.

Darth,
the units are remanufactured but I now have more money tied up in axles than I do in my 4.9/4t60e put together.
I don't know-----the shaft diameter of the transport 3800/4t60e is huge

perhaps they sold me the wrong part in the right box?

I'm in the same boat as you, but with a 4T65E-HD... I have so much money in crap axles now, I could have bought a Getrag and new Fiero axles and been done. (sold my just-rebuilt Getrag for cheap too, because I thought the stupid Auto would be easier to do!!!) My axle is too long, and none of the ones you mentioned even came close to working in mine. I had to take apart the Fiero manual outer housing and replace the inner splined ball-carrier thing with one from a GTP. Then the GTP axle fit into my Riviera inner joint (only inner that would fit trans, has bigger splines than GTP 65-HD??). Problem is, I can't get the dang ball joint into the spindle when the susp. is at full extension, the axle is just *too long*. I even cut new grooves for the hold-in rings as far down as I could, and managed to shave 1" off the thing. Still too long.... You could always go with Moser (sp??) axles, but for $400 I thought I could get one built cheaper myself. Argh.... Could you have one cut / extended like the one that was too long, just shorter? I didn't know you could actually have one welded, maybe I'll have to do that.... The axle shafts I'm using are 34 spline, 1.079" diameter at the splines. Have 15 1/4" long (GTP), need ~ 13 1/4" to work... So much for a cheap / easy swap, huh?? Good luck man, you'll get it eventually!!!! Hope someone can help!

------------------
Bob Williams
Multi-colored '87 Mutt, a work in progress! (3800SC installation in super-super-ssuuppeerr-slow-motion progress... Done for Kansas? Riiiiiiiight....)

Ricerburner, when I had Moser build a custom inner axle for Mr. Pat's LT1 swap, they only charged me $150.00. What are they doing for you that is going to cost $400.00?

As for making axles for the 4T65-E HD swaps the only 65-HD specific components I needed were the tripod ends that inserted into the trans. The rest of the parts (inner axles, outer tripod ends, CV joint bearings) were all Fiero and Beretta parts. A while back I started a thread describing that GM only made 3 different FWD axle diameters/spline counts. The auto Fiero comes with the smallest, the Manual Fiero and most large FWD GM cars came with the middle size, and the HD trannys came with the largest. In addition to this the inner tripod pieces came in a few different style joints, concerning the 3 large rollers that inserted into that joint. The one from the beretta has the flat rollers while the HD and manual trans Fiero has the round rollers. I was able to insert a manual trans fiero shaft w/ roller end right into the 4T65-E HD CV inner tripods no problem.

My suggestion to anyone experiencing swap problems with axles is to figure out what you have and what you need. GM made many different length inner CV axles over the years and I am sure your local junk yard has a lot to choose from. If you are having issues tell me what axle you have that is too long and how much shorter you need it to be. From what you have said it sounds like your axle is about 1" too long. If you could measure the length of the inner shaft that is exposed (between the 2 boots) and it's diameter, I can point you in the direction of the shaft you need to look for.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 10-19-2004).]

When I did mine it was recommended to use Autozone "CCT" brand part #8471 remanufactured halfshaft for the drivers side. This axle is from the drivers side of a 1990 Pontiac 6000 with 4 speed auto trans and light duty brakes. Price was $59.99 plus $25.00 core charge which I ate. This axle fits fine. On the passenger side of the Fiero you were to use Autozone "CCT" brand #8437 remanufactured halfshaft $59.00plus $20.00 core which I ate This axle is from the drivers side of a 1986 Fiero with manual transmission and put on the passenger side of the Fiero with the 4T60E trans. I did this and it looked short. Even with the car on the ground it looked short. Then when BV Motorsports broke his tranny using this axle I knew it was too short. Luckily I hadn't driven mine yet. I then purchased from Autozone a "CCT" brand part # 9572 $59.99 plus $35.00 core which I ate too. This axle is from the passenger side of a 1992 Oldsmobile Silhouette with 4 speed auto trans. It was a special order and took a week to get. I took off the outer hub of the Olds axle and swapped it with the outer hub from the Fiero drivers side manual axle #8437. It took about ten minutes to do this. They went together with no problems. I put the car back together and now it looks right. I have driven over 2000 miles with this setup and no problems. Is it possible you are trying to use the outer from your original 125 auto trans, or maybe the store gave you an auto trans axle instead of the manual axle. I understand the manual axles are bigger diameter.

Hope this helps a little......
Good luck

Dragon1/Brian

Thank you all fpr your help------
I am using part numbers 9572 and trying to put an outer Fiero joint on it. The hole in the Fiero joint is much too small in diameter to accept the shaft of the #9572
So; since this has worked for others-
1) I got the wrong part in the right box today (9572)
2) I was previously sold an auto Fiero axle instead of a manual one

Tommorrow I will travel to the boneyard and see if I can find a manual Fiero and pull the outer cv joint
I don't know what else to do at this point.

Sounds like you definitely got the wrong one in the right box. Tried that the other day - putting an auto Fiero outer on the shaft.. I had to use the Buick inner hole piece anyway, 'cause even the manual Fiero hole is too small for the HD axle shaft. But the carrier with the hole was too big to fit inside the outer joint. So it's not just the axle hole in the carrier, the whole thing is bigger for the manual. Dragon - do you by any chance have a total length of the final product you ended up using?? Like from inner tip to outer tip? It seems everyone comes up with a different length that works.. I'm starting to think my engine is too far to the right compared to everyone else's, but I'm using the same WCF mounts that many people are.. Jeff - are you using the 3800SC series II engine?? If so, can I ask where your blower pulley lines up in relation to the passenger side trunk hinge?? I've seen some people's about 1" to the left of the hinge, but mine is dead-on lined up with that hinge. 1 of the reasons I think the whole mess is shifted and I need a different length.. Possibly your case? no? Darth - seriously??? I had only heard rumor / stories of how $$$ the Moser stuff was, I never actually contacted them. If a custom axle is seriously only $150 from them, I'm going to kick my own butt for not contacting them earlier!!! Dang I hope you're right... I need to PM you about this stuff, my mind is toast on it!!! Good luck jeff - with the knowledge here, you'll get it!

The long side axle on my car is a Pontiac 6000 axle with the stock Fiero tripods on it.. This is what Rickady tells me anyway and he built it... Works like a charm...

Sorry---I am in the 4.9 4t60e crowd

Upon further measuring, the bearing cage might be interchangable between the fiero joint and the minivan joint. I will try this later this morning. If it works then I will be installing the axle.

86FieroEarl used the pontiac 6000 axle too however he has a 4t60 (not electronic) and uses a different axle length.

Doh! I knew that... lol That's what I've had to do though - swap the bearing cage... Fun.... Love that grease! BTW, ever find anything that really cleans it up? I've tried brake-clean, engine degreaser, WD-40, soap, kerosene... Nothing seems to *really* dissolve it...

I usually wear disposable neoprene gloves. They are impervious to the grease (unlike latex) and makes hand clean up so easy afterwards.
I don't even try to get rid of the grease----just kind of move it out of my way. I guess a large parts cleaner would be your best bet if you really wanted to sparkle them for inspection etc but since I am working with newly remanned parts I didn't see any need.
There is a wonderful concentrated degreaser sold for about $5.00 a gallon at Harbor Freight which I just bought a gallon---Kento says, "it's the bomb baby" you mix it with H20 like 9 to 1 and it is supposed to really work well. It's purple in color.

Jeff, I hope you get this problem resolved soon. You've had some hard luck. Keep us posted.

Yeah, I second that! I hope you get this solved soon, and can start driving that thing!!

Small update:
today, I tried to exchange the inner races from the fiero and minivan outer joint. It was a No GO--the race from the minivan axle will not fit into the fiero outer joint.
back to the u pull it and I spent 11/2 hrs trying my best to retrieve a fiero axle. There was only one manual fiero in the yard-84 model and the axle boot was already torn-so it was probably bad anyway.But I removed the caliper-removed the pinch bolt and jacked up the spindle while baeting the (&^% out of the lower control arm. I beat until I was breathless, hurting, exhausted and covered in sweat and the lower control arm would never let go from the spindle. I even grabbed an exhaust pipe and tried prying it--no go---I finally left the yard without an axle. Now my elbows hurt terribly. This project is starting to wear me down.
To add to the matter---I don't even know for sure if the axle I purchased (mininvan) is the correct one. So many times they sell the wrong parts in the right boxes.
I ask one favor---can somone give me a diameter measurement of a fiero manual axle please?

Jeff, do you have any place that rebuilds axle's close to you? I needed one ,which Autozone could not get,they gave me the wrong one back. Long story short,had to find a rebuilder,he could make up any combo needed. They know which ones will work togeather. Good luck.

Jim

I already tried that----problem is that he has all the gm axles in a big pile-not labeled.

Jeff; the outside dia. of the splined parts of the manual axle are 1.030 aprox my calipers are a pos. but within a couple of thou. I'm going to measure for my axles tonight and measure for offset and let you know what I find. don't let this get you down.if it was easy everybody would be doing it! Hang in there. Joe

Jeff; I just got back in from the shop, this is how my car works out . the cv joints have an 1 1/2" offset in realation to the cradle, the axles need to be 9 1/2" from clip to clip on the drivers side and 12 1/2" on the pass side. This places the inner joint in the middle of its travel with some room to move to one side or the other a little bit, in case your offset is a little different.
If I had tried the Fiero axle on the pass side I would have blown up the cv and probably damaged the trans in the process. I hope yours is ok.
Thats all for tonight I hope it helps. Joe

Yes, thank you very much
The first axle that we actually drove the car with was a manual fiero axle and as soon as the lower control arm dropped down going out the driveway--the inner cv pulled apart and made a horrible noise along with spewing needle bearings all over the street.

I am heading to Harbor Freight (candy store) to pik up some calipers so I can figure out if I have the wrong minivan axle or the wrong Fiero outer joint.

PM sent
Thanks Gary

Jeff the Fiero joint you have is form an auto car. I have a local axle reman shop looking into the axle lenghts that will work, should know more By tomrow. Latter Joe

Ok,
I just had a super guy Paulcal give me a fiero manual axle---I took it apart and it is the same size as the other two I had------
It has to be that they sold me the incorrect minivan axle.--the part number on the box was correct 9572 but this just is not working.

quote Originally posted by Kento: We slotted the Firewall side mount and then used the factory points trunk side. The same as everyone else does.

Kento
Let me correct you on the info posted above:
You used the fatory mounting points on the front trans mount ( meaning bolted the mount on the set of holes closer to the center of the cradle )
For the rear trans mount, the holes were slotted to the center of the car.
Just wanted to clear that up,

quote Originally posted by 85LAMB: Kento Let me correct you on the info posted above: You used the fatory mounting points on the front trans mount ( meaning bolted the mount on the set of holes closer to the center of the cradle ) For the rear trans mount, the holes were slotted to the center of the car. Just wanted to clear that up,

Front = Firewall,
Rear = TRUNK SIDE

we slotted the ones next to the firewall or right behind the drivers butt!. I am so GLAD I am staying with my 5spd.

Hey Joe--not that it matters but Lamb is correct--the slots are cut in the cradle at the rear of the car near the trunk wall.---at the firewall side--towards the front of the car is the orange angle iron with gm tranny mount and also the transmission mount.

Now today-I reassembled the axle I bought this week and prepared it to return to the store since it is obviously the wrong part in the box and not a #9572 as I was supposed to get.

It measures 1.030 diameter
a original equip manual fiero axle is .820
and the outer joint on the one that they sold me is huge! looks like it could turn a dumptruck . I have no idea what it came from but is not a minivan.

On the left is the welded axle I had made--15.25 in
in the center is oem fiero axle - 13 15/16th in
oem was too short-----welded is too long.
and on the left is the reassembled axle to be returned--hope they don't notice the hose clamps
If autozone cannot find me a correct # 9572 then I will just go to a different axle shop and purchase the axle since I NOW know how to build one myself.

quote Originally posted by jeffndebrus: Hey Joe--not that it matters but Lamb is correct--the slots are cut in the cradle at the rear of the car near the trunk wall.---at the firewall side--towards the front of the car is the orange angle iron with gm tranny mount and also the transmission mount.

UMM DAMN IT I have to look at the pictures, I swaer it is the other side.

OK I looked at the Picture!!!! I thought that cause Earl had it upside down while grinding and I had the image in my head backwards

[This message has been edited by Kento (edited 10-22-2004).]

Jeff what year is your car, I haven't seen any stick cars with with the small axles, Iv'e only seen them on the auto cars. Are you sure that the axle you got from your friend wasn't an auto?
In the mean time I'm still waiting to hear from the cv shop, I'll call them near the end of the day, on my car I'm using the fiero outer cvs and the cad inners, they have the same splines and dia. as the stick fieros

quote Originally posted by moto838: Jeff what year is your car, I haven't seen any stick cars with with the small axles, Iv'e only seen them on the auto cars. Are you sure that the axle you got from your friend wasn't an auto?

100% positive it's a manual axle. The only reason I swapped out this set was because 1 of the CV joints came apart and I lost most of the needle bearings. This happened during my last engine swap and that axle has been with the car since I bought it 2 years ago.
Came out of an 85GT if that makes any difference.

[This message has been edited by paulcal (edited 10-22-2004).]

Paulcal; thanks for the info. Is there something going on here this is the first stick car I've seen with small axles, any body else run into this?
Jeff you might want to think about getting a set of the outter cv's that fit the 1.030 axles, CVJ Axles in Denver 1 800 292 2953 has come up with a shaft that will fit on the pass side, the drives side is another story, the shaft they found is about an inch longer than I need maybe there is enough room to recut the clips shorten the axles a little. If not I'll need a custom axle shaft for the drivers side.
remember that my engine and trans are on custom mnts, check your offset the driver side axle they found for me might work for you. cheers beers n gaers. Joe

Just an update on my part, and for future info I guess.... I emailed Moser and explained what I was doing, and that I needed a shorter axle (fwd) for my Fiero project... Here's the response I got:

Hello,

Sorry, but we do NOT make shafts for Front Wheel Drive.

Thank you,
Ernie Stevens
Moser Engineering
The Leader in Hi-Performance Rear-End Components

Turns out the axle I cut myself actually *is* the right size, so I guess I'm all set (error on my part, not assembled right by me!!) but looks like Moser won't be able to help anymore??? Interesting..... - Bob W

Who needs Moser, I have Mark Willams less than a half an hour away and they will build what you need ! Joe

quote Originally posted by jeffndebrus: I NOW know how to build one myself.

Yeah im in the same process of assembeling my axle..... With a pair of snip ring pliers makes the job easy.... Messy but never or less easy... I lost about 5 needle bearings tho I think im going to have to disect another axle or either look for some needle bearings in the street from your first axle

------------------