Just got my cradle dropped (87 V6 5spd). It was my first cradle drop. I disconnected the connectors to the computer and sent all the wires thru the firewall so I could avoid disconnecting the wiring from the engine. That seemed like the easier way and I think it was. The engine is on my dolly and I rolled it out. 900lb furniture dolly from Lowes, $25 (dimensions are approximately 20 by 30 inches, works great!)

My questions: don't laugh, I'm new at this

1) I want to just wire the fuel pump thru the fuse box and that's it (so no relay). It will then run as long as I have the ignition turned on. Is that a problem? Would it be better to run it thru a relay?

2) I'm not going to put the computer back in so what do you guys use to seal up the big hole left in the firewall where the wiring harness was? (behind center console).

3) I had to sawsall the rear cradle bolts out. Both had the "nut" part turning inside the frame. Even when I wedged it or grabbed it with vice grips, it still turned. I plan on replacing them with bolts and using regular nuts on the ends inside the frame. I know they sell hardened (grade 8) bolts at the hardware store and stainless steel are supposed to be really hard too. Any suggestions on the type/grade of bolts to use?

4) Last one, I'm going with polyurethane cradle bushings all around. The fronts won't be a problem as I'll just burn them out. How do you get the rear ones off? Do I just pry them away from the cradle or are they glued on there?

thanks for any help
Dave

The grey snap in part of the wiring harness comes apart. You can reuse it with the wiring for your gauges. You need an inline pressure regulator if you are going to be using a carb, they use much lower fuel pressure. The Fiero store has replacement bolts for the craddle. Finally the rear craddle bushings just come apart, you only need to reuse the top washer that munts against the car's body when you reinstall the craddle.

Let me know if you need a hand. I'm about 45 min. from lafayette. I'd love to see what you have going.

quote Originally posted by FieroOilAnalyst: Let me know if you need a hand. I'm about 45 min. from lafayette. I'd love to see what you have going.

LOL. I'll tell you what I have going....a big "learn as you go" mess. This whole thing was a bit out of my league at first but I still jumped right in. It's going pretty good so far. My schedule is so damn tight lately I just can't work on it for any long lenght of time.

Thanks for the offer. You definitely have to come up here one weekend and check it out. I bought a complete carbed 3.4 from a fellow PFF member recently. It came with absolutely everything. I just need to swap out fuel pumps, put in a pressure regulator, have my manual tranny flywheel neutrally balanced, run power to the ignition and electric choke, and that's it. This will probably be the easiest drop-in I could expect.

I've had the motor for about 3 weeks but haven't been able to do anything until this weekend. I started disconnecting things from my car yesterday after work, and by 3pm today I had the cradle on the dolly and completely out. That went much better than I had expected...took me a total of around 10 hours...nothing to brag about, but hey, I'm new at it.

Dave

On the fuel pump issue:
You can hook it up that way but it will drive you nuts because everytime you turn the key on the fuel pump will run. If you decide to go that route, check with Jegs ro Summit and get an oil pressure trigered fuel pump shut off shwitch and wire it in. Doing it that way the pump will only run when the engine has oil pressure. (Once your float bowls are full the car will start so do not worry that it wont get fuel when it is not running)

Avengador coverd the hole issue. I wish I could reccomend a bolt replaced mine with bolts from a parts car.

On the cradle bushings:
The rear bushings you can pound out with a hammer once you start hitting it you will see how they come out. It is pretty obvious.

I am guessing you bought Oreif's motor. If so you will be happy with the set-up. I love mine and it will remain until I can afford the V8 to replace it.

Here are a couple of picsof mine if you have nto seen them:


Good luck and enjoy.

------------------

85 GT 4-speed
3.4 pushrod, 390 Holley carb, Edlebrock intake, MSD 6A ignition. 04 Gran Prix exhaust tips, Ported manifolds and lots more to go.
Richey

Why dont' you ditch the carb and put a ported set of intake manifolds on it. Then the wiring and everythign else is the same. A fully ported set of intakes will prob still flow pretty close to that carb setup. Sell the carb setup to help fund the porting of the intakes or port them yourself.

thats however what I would do.

SH

quote Originally posted by The Punisher: Why dont' you ditch the carb and put a ported set of intake manifolds on it. Then the wiring and everythign else is the same. A fully ported set of intakes will prob still flow pretty close to that carb setup. Sell the carb setup to help fund the porting of the intakes or port them yourself. thats however what I would do. SH

I would rather have the carb on there right now. I want to try my car computer free for a while. I've never messed with a carb and would like to give it a shot. Who knows, maybe I'll come crawling back to the computer set-up after a while.

You mention porting: The 2.8 I took out today will be seeing the porting. I'm planning on taking a shot at porting the lower manifolds myself. I'm going to leave the plenum/TB to Darrell Morse. I have an 86 V6 with a high mileage 2.8 (166000 miles) and I'm going to build this 2.8 up a bit and drop it in that car. Nothing major, just a few upgrades. I have an extra set of ported/polished heads to add to it. I figure that, a higher lift cam like the H272, ported exhaust manifolds, etc, and it should be a good replacement motor for my 2.8. It won't be anything to brag about, but a nice improvement over stock.

Thanks to everyone for all the advice. It's really appreciated

Dave

quote Originally posted by STRATOHACKER: I am guessing you bought Oreif's motor. If so you will be happy with the set-up

you're good, how did you know?

quote Originally posted by The Punisher: A fully ported set of intakes will prob still flow pretty close to that carb setup. SH

No it won't. The stock intake set-up ported with the bored throttle body max flow is around 340cfm. A 3.4L requires 354cfm and the Edlebrock intake (ported) with the Holley 390 cfm carb is about 390 cfm. If anyone should know about the flow of this particular 3.4L it is me.

Ditch:

1) If you want to wire it to accessory power, The connector that comes from the connector block near the battery and goes to the fuel injection harness has 2 +12V wires. One is on pin A and the other is on pin D. You can use A for the choke and D for the fuel pump. These trace back to two fuses under the dash. Pin A is fuse TBI1 and pin D is TBI2 They are each 5 amp fuses. The stock fuel pump draws about 3.5amps and the choke draws 2.5 amps.

2) Sealing the hole permanently you could just fiberglass it. If you want to leave it accessable, Just get 2 pieces of metal. One inside and one outside, then bolt them together. If you ever want to use the hole again, remove bolts and plates.

3) Not sure, Mine didn't have a problem so I used stock bolts.

4) Just beat them with a hammer. There is a metal washer that sometimes "sticks" but generally they pop apart.

------------------

Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.
ZZ4 Powered !!

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 10-16-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: No it won't. The stock intake set-up ported with the bored throttle body max flow is around 340cfm. A 3.4L requires 354cfm and the Edlebrock intake (ported) with the Holley 390 cfm carb is about 390 cfm. If anyone should know about the flow of this particular 3.4L it is me.

Thanks for stepping in and addressing this. I've read enough on PFF to know the fiero intake is restrictive when put on a 3.4. I didn't want to make that statement because I really don't have the knowledge/experience to start arguing about it. I too believe the carb is the best choice as it will flow more air than the fiero intake could hope to.

Thanks for the wiring info. I was going to put in new wires from the fuse panel but I'll go your route as it seems the easiest. I want the computer and its wiring out of there for the sake of having less clutter in my engine compartment.

I intend on having this thing put together and running before the end of the month.

Dave

Maybe I didnt' make myself clear. What I am saying is that I know it wont' flow as well as a carb but with it being ported out completely it can come close.

I am sure with full port work, and a extrude hone it can come close.

Now the carb might flow 390 cfm but can the engine actually suck that much in?

I don't know if it can or not.

3.4L at 80% VE for arguments sake. I dotn' know the formulas so I can't figure it out right now.

Its ok that you want to try a carb. Thast fine with me.

I was unsure if you thought you had to use the carb since it came on the engine. It was my opinion that to convert everything from your efi setup to the carb setup will be a lot of work instead of just throwing on some ported manis, and calling it a day.

You know what you need to throw on top of that 3.4 once you get it all hooked up and running good?

A carb plate nitrous setup. I have just what you need. Still brand new with the original box. NOS sniper kit.

What would be a cool idea is if you get the carb setup running good and then have it dynoed. I know Oreif had ti dynoed already but in yoru setup it could be different if using different trannies.

So the dyno with the carb, and then for whatever reason you decide to go back to the EFI setup, you can put a ported setup on there and then see just how much difference it makes on a fairly modified 3.4 It would be good info to know. And it will also show what a set of ported manis can do on a 3.4 as well as opposed to a carb

Just something to think about.

SH

quote Originally posted by The Punisher: I was unsure if you thought you had to use the carb since it came on the engine. It was my opinion that to convert everything from your efi setup to the carb setup will be a lot of work instead of just throwing on some ported manis, and calling it a day.

I see where you were coming from. I knew I could put the fiero intake on there. Actually, I had originally purchased the longblock without the carb and planned on using the intake. I then thought about it a bit and decided to purchase the carb with it. The engine had already been driven about 225 miles, so I knew the carb would be tuned right.

quote Originally posted by The Punisher: You know what you need to throw on top of that 3.4 once you get it all hooked up and running good? A carb plate nitrous setup. I have just what you need. Still brand new with the original box. NOS sniper kit.

LOL. I think I'll pass on that one. I know that would be freakin awesome, but I really don't have any interrest in getting into nitrous. I'll end up hand-grenading my engine with my luck.

quote Originally posted by The Punisher: What would be a cool idea is if you get the carb setup running good and then have it dynoed. I know Oreif had ti dynoed already but in yoru setup it could be different if using different trannies. So the dyno with the carb, and then for whatever reason you decide to go back to the EFI setup, you can put a ported setup on there and then see just how much difference it makes on a fairly modified 3.4 It would be good info to know. And it will also show what a set of ported manis can do on a 3.4 as well as opposed to a carb Just something to think about.

I do plan on having it dynoed when I have it totally broken in. I don't think I would be going back to the manifolds as that would require me putting the computer back on and changing out fuel pumps. It would be an interresting thing to dyno both setups.

I would think someone had done this already. That would be some interresting data. Oreif dynoed his engine before it was in the car and got flywheel numbers. I don't think he ever dynoed it to get wheel HP, but I could be wrong. I would say no as the motor is still in the break-in stage.

Dave

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 10-16-2004).]

I dotn't hink you need to change yoru pump. I think you just need to get a regulator to crank down the fuel pressure to the 6 psi or whatever it is you need.

I know some of the v6's guys do this when going to a carb v8 setup or even the 4 cyl guys do this when going to a carb v8 setup.

its an inline fuel regulator that drops pressure to the set level. No need to go through all that work to drop the tank and change the pump.

SH

quote Originally posted by The Punisher: I dotn't hink you need to change yoru pump. I think you just need to get a regulator to crank down the fuel pressure to the 6 psi or whatever it is you need. I know some of the v6's guys do this when going to a carb v8 setup or even the 4 cyl guys do this when going to a carb v8 setup. its an inline fuel regulator that drops pressure to the set level. No need to go through all that work to drop the tank and change the pump. SH

I'm changing my pump for a couple reasons. First, I got a new 4cyl fuel pump for free. Second, I don't know how old the pump in there is. With my car raised up it will be easy to drop the tank and swap it out.

So there are people using V6 pumps and putting them thru a regulator to meter them down to under 10psi? That's cool. I thought with as much flow as the V6 generates, it would cause some problems if you tried to meter it down to something like what I'm after (6-7psi).

Dave

quote Originally posted by ditch: I'm changing my pump for a couple reasons. First, I got a new 4cyl fuel pump for free. Second, I don't know how old the pump in there is. With my car raised up it will be easy to drop the tank and swap it out. So there are people using V6 pumps and putting them thru a regulator to meter them down to under 10psi? That's cool. I thought with as much flow as the V6 generates, it would cause some problems if you tried to meter it down to something like what I'm after (6-7psi). Dave

Yes, there are feed-back style regulators that can be used. But they usually cost $100 or more just for the regulator. I have aslo seen some use two seperate regulators as well. Using just the regular Holley regulator will cause pressure creep at low rpm and idle which would over-fill the fuel bowls and flood out the engine.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: The only thing that I was going to do was after break-in, was to play with the Jets. Stock the carb has .051 jets and Donk moved his down to .047 which per him, gave him more power and a slightly better torque range. I was going to have the dyno shop run them to see if it really did make a difference. Going with a manual trans, this would be some tuning you could try. (Donk had a manual trans as well)

I ended up at 48 jets in mine and yes the car runs a lot crisper. I am sure you could drop down at least 2 sizes and the throttle response will be better.

In my experience I also found that hooking the vacuum advance canister to the full vacuum source under primary bowl, instead of the ported source mde a huge difference in drivability and smoothness at cruise.

Richey

[This message has been edited by STRATOHACKER (edited 10-17-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: The only thing that I was going to do was after break-in, was to play with the Jets. Stock the carb has .051 jets and Donk moved his down to .047 which per him, gave him more power and a slightly better torque range. I was going to have the dyno shop run them to see if it really did make a difference. Going with a manual trans, this would be some tuning you could try. (Donk had a manual trans as well)

cool,
I might try that. I plan on doing getting a dyno run after the break-in period is complete. That might not happen soon since winter is coming up on us. If and when I change the jets I'll dyno it again and see if there is any difference.

I ended up going with a Mallory recirculation type fuel pressure regulator. I wanted to do that instead of the straight run to the carb type regulator.

Dave

quote Originally posted by ditch: That's a great looking engine you have. The set-up I have doesn't use the vacuum advance so I can't do anything with respect to that. Dave

Thanks for the compliment.
What distributor are you running that you wil not need to use vacuum advance?
I had assumed you bought Oreif's distributor with the carb set-up.
Richey

quote Originally posted by STRATOHACKER: Thanks for the compliment. What distributor are you running that you wil not need to use vacuum advance? I had assumed you bought Oreif's distributor with the carb set-up. Richey

You assumed right. I have his ignition system/distributor also. He has the vacuum advance blocked off. Timing is controlled by a Crane HI-6R ignition system (I can't remember if it's HR-6, H-R6, or something like that).

I hope to have this thing running soon.

ditch, you're doing it right.

If you can get that engine to do what Oreif intended, you are going to have
a really nice ride.

As for making it faster, I'd run it a season and figure that out later.

As for NOS, same thing... later.

As for breathing, I fail to see how delivering less air than the engine can handle can equate to giving it a bit more than it wants.

One thing you might want to do after the season is over, is to compare notes with donk316 and his Holley throttlebody.

As far as I'm concerned, you've got an engine that alot of us would be proud to own.

Good luck

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: ditch, you're doing it right. If you can get that engine to do what Oreif intended, you are going to have a really nice ride. As for making it faster, I'd run it a season and figure that out later. As for NOS, same thing... later. As for breathing, I fail to see how delivering less air than the engine can handle can equate to giving it a bit more than it wants. One thing you might want to do after the season is over, is to compare notes with donk316 and his Holley throttlebody. As far as I'm concerned, you've got an engine that alot of us would be proud to own. Good luck Arn

thanks,

I can't wait to get it in and running. I really don't see myself ever going to a fuel injection set-up on this engine. The carb can give it all the air it will ever need. I also like the idea of saying goodbye to the computer and all the dang sensors. You can't beat simplicity. As far as nitrous, I don't intend on ever going there. I've never been interrested in it and I don't want to beat this motor to hell like that.

If I want more power someday, I'll get a bigger motor. I heard Oreif's ZZ4 run and it sounded MEAN. No other word for it. That's motivation enough to go for the extra 2 cylinders should I ever feel the need for more power.

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 10-19-2004).]