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Tank cleaning a block by Darren's 87 coupe
Started on: 10-14-2004 04:30 PM
Replies: 10
Last post by: Darren's 87 coupe on 10-18-2004 01:13 PM
Darren's 87 coupe
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Report this Post10-14-2004 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darren's 87 coupeSend a Private Message to Darren's 87 coupeDirect Link to This Post
I'm wanting to dip my engine block, but it's a 4.9 aluminum block. I have heard that there is a special solution that they have to put aluminum in so that it doesn't just totally dull the block. What am I looking for? What do I tell the shop that I am wanting? I really don't want a cheap shop to say they can tank it, then realize they don't know what they are doing and they give me back a very clean but very dull block.

Am i crazy or does someone know what I'm talking about. I have never really used a machine shop before, so just needing some help on what to ask for. Also, how well does steam clean, if i decide to go that route.

Thanks,
Darren

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tesmith66
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Report this Post10-14-2004 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Direct Link to This Post
I know what you're talking about. You can't hot tank aluminum because the acid will eat it. Call the shop and tell them you have an aluminum block that needs to be cleaned and they will take care of you. It will come back looking like freshly cast aluminum. There are several types of solvents and methods out there, ask the shop what they use and voice your concerns about dulling the finish. As far as the fresh look goes, unless you clear coat it right away, it will dull out on it's own. That's just life in the big city.

------------------
1986 SE 350 V8

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James Bond 007
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Report this Post10-14-2004 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for James Bond 007Send a Private Message to James Bond 007Direct Link to This Post
Yep,your going to have to clear coat it or paint it or it will turn gray.
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JazzMan
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Report this Post10-14-2004 11:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, if you're going to hot-tanke an aluminum block be sure to run a piece of wire through the cylinders to make it easier to fish the cylinder liners out of the bottom of the tank.

D'oh!

JazzMan

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3atsH0ndas
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Report this Post10-14-2004 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3atsH0ndasClick Here to visit 3atsH0ndas's HomePageSend a Private Message to 3atsH0ndasDirect Link to This Post
Good to see another Okie around here.................Do not under any circumstances let a machine shop but you block in a Caustic Soda bath...........I will be vaporized
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Darren's 87 coupe
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Report this Post10-15-2004 08:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darren's 87 coupeSend a Private Message to Darren's 87 coupeDirect Link to This Post
Hey okie from Muskogee, but you're tired of that one.I see you're a newbie. New to the group, or new to the fiero, or both?

Other reply...I already have the liners removed. Did you have a problem getting them back in, or did you know which ones fell out which hole? That had to be a sad day. What all did you do to yours? Anything other than cleaning it? Did you get it back together alright? The sleeves are making me nervous. Let me know if you have any more advice.

Hey okie....what do you have by the way? Mine's a blue 87 coupe. 4 cyl, till next spring or summer when this gets in it.

Later guys

Darren

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pred1tor83
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Report this Post10-15-2004 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pred1tor83Send a Private Message to pred1tor83Direct Link to This Post
tank cleaning has really changed from the old days...


This page was last updated on $Date: 2000/03/06 00:01:07 $

Cleaning Aluminum Engine Components.
Note: This was originally posted to rec.motocycles by Mark Holbrook (holbrook@alliant.alliant.com) and has since been added to.
Updated on 4 May 1995.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some time ago I posted a request on how to clean aluminum engine components, mainly exterior unpolished heads, cylinders, cases, etc., i.e. the stuff that gets really grungy and corroded from years of leaking oil, road tar, salt, bugs, and neglect. (Polished metal is a different subject although there is some overlap.) Since then I have absorbed the distilled wisdom of the net on this subject (effectively none), talked to several wrenchers locally, and tried a variety of things. This post summarizes my research. Some of it is applicable to iron, too. Caviat: I have not tried all of them, but wanted to get this out so that you may benefit from my experience (i.e. destroy your bike (or cage) like I'm destroying mine.) I list the various attacks, what they're good for, and what to watch out for.
Before I begin: WEAR EYE PROTECTION. WEAR SUITABLE PROTECTIVE CLOTHING AND/OR BREATHING APPARATUS AS NECESSARY. WORK ONLY IN WELL VENTILATED AREAS AND KEEP THE SOLVENTS AWAY FROM FLAME. You'll be glad you did. I accidently squirted xylene in one eye once during this effort and it burned like hell. Also avoid getting the acids, carb cleaner, and gasket remover on anything other than what you're cleaning and dispose of used solvents, etc. in an environmentally responsible way.


Normal wash: Good only for removing pure dirt and light oil. Use your favorite cleaner (I prefer Dawn dishwashing detergent over Simple Green or other "automotive" cleaners simply because a strong detergent gets the most of this type of crud off with the least effort.)

Pressure wash: Removes heavier dirt and oil but not any corrosion. Recommended only for whole engines. Avoid spraying at any exposed seals (like around the countershaft or tachometer pickoff, possibly the exhaust header seals, too). OK to hit normal gaskets.

Dishwasher: For individual pieces you get results similar to a pressure washing. Of course cleans the insides of pieces so be sure to blow air through passages to get out residual water. Do or don't tell your spouse about doing this depending on which path minimizes negative spousal reaction. (Mine was pretty skeptical - sniffed the dishes that were in with the parts to see if they smelled like oil.)

Sand blasting: Sand (silica or carborundum particle) blasting will seriously remove metal and leave an uncorroded, but pitted surface. Particles may become imbedded in aluminum if air velocity used is too great and/or the alloy is particularly soft. Use with incredible care if at all, especially on pieces with oil/water galleries. If you do, mask off all possible entrances carefully since any grit that gets in will be difficult to completely get out and any left in will likely destroy something in your engine.

Bead blasting: Small glass beads which shatter on impact clean off surface crud and leave the aluminum looking like it was tapped with a zillion microscopic ball peen hammers. Same warning on keeping grit out of passages.

Shell blasting: Ground up walnut (or other hard) nut shells are the gentlest of the three blasting methods. Removes crud and shallow corrosion and leaves the surface looking the most like it originally did. Note that the blasting methods are the only ones that will get corrosion off metal in the nooks and crannies.

Kerosene, paint thinner, gasolene, naptha (in decreasing order of flammability and increasing order of volatility, I think): Use to remove oil, oily dirt, and tar. Use a wire brush or toothbrush to assist in getting off thick gunk. Does nothing for corrosion. Build/rent/buy a parts washer to speed cleaning of dissasembled pieces.

"Gunk" or equivalent: Gunk combines a petroleum-based solvent and a detergent in one can. Does a pretty good job on heavy dirt and light oil, nothing for corrosion. I think using a heavy detergent wash to remove heavy dirt, then a separate treatment of solvent to get heavy oil/tar off, and finally a second detergent wash works better than trying to do it all in one pass.

"Carb cleaner": is xylene and/or MEK (methyl ethyl ketone), i.e. an active, very volatile solvent. Good for getting the "varnish" and "parafin" that form on the inside (and outside) of carburetors from old gasoline. Good as a general solvent, too.

WD-40: The solvent doesn't work as good on varnish as real carb cleaner, but of course WD-40 leaves the surface protected due to the oils in it. Use it immediately after you have de-crudded (like that verb?) and brushed/blasted to keep surface shiny.

Hydrochloric acid: (available as muriatic acid). Takes off corrosion (not oily gunk), bubbling as it does so, but leaves the surface dark grey. Use a stainless steel wire "tooth" brush ($1 at your local car parts place) to expedite activity. Don't use it unless you really like this color. Avoid the fumes.

"Etching formula mag wheel cleaner": Available in a spray bottle and labelled "B" on the ABCDE specifier for automotive cleaning products, it contains phosphoric and hydrofluoric acids and bubbles when applied. Use a stainless steel wire "tooth" brush to expedite activity. Avoid the fumes. Leaves a dull light grey finish which can be lightened up by wiping with a paper towel/cloth immediately after brushing with the wire brush.

Gasket remover: Water-based liquid that softens fiber gaskets so they can be scraped off without damaging the machined surfaces. I mention it here because I found two uses for it: 1) it softens up the carbon and crud on the inside of the cylinder head, the ports, and the valve heads, which eased scraping those parts clean considerably. 2) It seems to soften/dissolve clear-coat (and other paint as well - be careful where you paint/spray this stuff!)

Wire brushes: You can get ones that fit in your drill and brush either circumferentially or radially (oh hell, go look at them) and in different wire thicknesses. I recommend the softest wire for aluminum. Also get the wire "tooth" brush (and more than one) I mentioned above. Look in the welding section of your hardware store if you don't see them in the tools section. You can also mount a wire wheel on your grinder for small parts. Frankly, wire brushing (and blasting) are the only things I've found that clean off corrosion and leave the surface bright. It's a lot of work and can't get in the nooks and crannies but gives the best results. Clean surface with solvent first to keep brush from simply smearing the crud around.

Scotch-Brite pads: Available in about 6 by 9 inch sheets for a buck, they work well on clean, smooth aluminum to brighten it up, don't do squat for rough-finished aluminum.

Aluminum jelly: I tried this stuff years ago so don't remember exactly what it is (more acid-based stuff, I guess) and was disappointed in the results. But then perhaps that was when I still hoped for some magic method that didn't involve elbow grease.

Don't use steel wool on aluminum. Tiny bits of it will break off and stick in the aluminum. These then rust and you are left with "rusty aluminum".

Polishing Aluminum: Simichrome works very well. There are a number of other commericially availabe aluminum polishing products.

Additional non-aluminum specific cleaners:
3M metal-stripper-wheel. This is a round plastic sponge, impregnated with abrasive grit, which you chuck into your electric drill. These remove tar, paint, rust from steel frames, tanks, panels. Probably a bit too abrasive for use on alloy, though. With one of these wheels, you can remove all the paint from,say, a gas tank without using any evil chemicals. It also removes surface rust, leaving you with bare metal covered with a network of fine scratches, ideal for paint adhesion. You then swab off your part with "metalprep", wash it off with water, dry it thoroughly, and paint away! That new paint will stick like glue!

Get yourself a can of "Carburetor & small Parts Cleaner". This milky-white stuff will take the hide off an elephant. It'll take carbon off the tops of pistons. It'll clean your carbs good. Just don't put any non-metallic parts in it. You just dump your castings, jets, etc into the can ( get the kind that comes with a dip basket ), and fish them out a half-hour or so later. Bright-squeaky-clean.

Another good carb cleaner is Berryman Chemtool. This stuff is about as poisonous and flammable as gasoline, but at least it's a good cleaner. Berryman's comes in a spray can, and its great fun to spray it on a grease- and-varnish encrusted carburetor; the stuff just liquifies and flows away. I personally use chemtool to clean carbs I don't want to take apart or off.

Spray it heavily with Gunk and leave it covered over night, then scrub with those plastic scratch pads. For the corrosion, Aluminum Jelly works good, but do it after you rinse the engine cleaner off. My engine came out looking great.
Chuck Stringer (cstringe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu)


Being the sort who hates paying more than $50 for a motorcycle I've run into a lot of corroded aluminium and have had good luck with scotchbrite(tm) pads (plastic wool) followed by Nevr Dull. Nevr Dull doesn't have much problem cleaning up the scratch marks left by really fine scotchbrite. This works pretty well on both smooth and sand-cast surfaces, though it doesn't get the all the crap out of the sandcast surface, which in my book is Ok because it doesn't make it look like you've got nothing better to do with your life than sitting around polishing your crankcase (hmm, sounds like a euphemism...). For bad corrosion (or shitty castings - like old ducatis) I've had to bead blast followed by 320 grit followed by 400 grit followed by 600 grit followed by Nevr Dull, but it's usually just easier to buy another motorcycle. The progressive stages of sandpaper can also be used with some success to take the sand cast marks out. As for the jugs, good luck. A brass brush will take out what crap it can reach, but you probably can't find one long enough. It shouldn't leave any visible scratch marks on a rough cast surface if that's what you've got. Bead blasting will cure it for sure.
Latte' Jed (mason@asylum.sf.ca.us)


In general, the rough cast cases clean up pretty well with some aluminum cleaner or carb cleaner solvents available at auto parts stores. Tide works ok, a brass bristle brush works really well. You *don't* want to polish the cases with buffing wheel, etc. Polished side covers, like most of the older British and Italian bikes had, are fine, but polishing the engine cases themselves will cause the engine to retain heat.
If you do complete disassembly and have stubborn corrosion/need for resurfacing, a bead blaster with walnut shell grit works wonders. Finding someone to do this, however, is often a bit of a trick.


(ps i need positive ratings if u found that helpfull u know what to do)

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Arns85GT
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Report this Post10-15-2004 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
Good posting and good info. Thankyou+

Arn

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JazzMan
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Report this Post10-16-2004 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JazzManSend a Private Message to JazzManDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Darren's 87 coupe:

Other reply...I already have the liners removed. Did you have a problem getting them back in, or did you know which ones fell out which hole? That had to be a sad day. What all did you do to yours? Anything other than cleaning it? Did you get it back together alright? The sleeves are making me nervous. Let me know if you have any more advice.

Darren

It was a joke.

If you put aluminum of any kind into a caustic bath it will dissolve, leaving nothing but the steel parts behind.

JazzMan

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86fieroEarl
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Report this Post10-16-2004 12:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86fieroEarlSend a Private Message to 86fieroEarlDirect Link to This Post
I would wash the block myself And clear coat it About the liners I hope there numbered There's a documatation I posted awhile back on a fail safe way of putting them suckers back on and not worrying about coolant leakage.
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Darren's 87 coupe
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Report this Post10-18-2004 01:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darren's 87 coupeSend a Private Message to Darren's 87 coupeDirect Link to This Post
Earl, yes they are numbered. I might go with Bud Alderman's northstar set up any way, so it would not be a problem since I wouldn't be using the old liners anyway.

Jazzman....+ for you for suckering me into that one. Ha Ha.

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