Thanks Vonov, I should have an update a little later. I realize that I absolutely have to have power coming from the back of the guages fuse at the brown wire with key turned on. If I do not---then something is wrong with my fusebox or ignition?? I don't really know--I'm shooting in the dark here. I would like to find the problem---
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11:41 AM
Vonov Member
Posts: 3745 From: Nashville,TN,USA Registered: May 2004
You know, I was thinking earlier that it could ba a prob with your ignition switch box (the one on the column beneath the dash) or a related circuit, such as a relay or something of the sort.
------------------ 88 Formula, "Asphalt Aviator"
"I've seen em---they're little fellers. You know, the Artesians..." ---caretaker at Olympia Brewery
[This message has been edited by Vonov (edited 09-22-2004).]
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03:01 PM
Vonov Member
Posts: 3745 From: Nashville,TN,USA Registered: May 2004
I would begin by checking the voltage input to the switch box. Then check the terminals coming off the switch box, if all those outputs are good, then check at the input side of the gauges fuse, then the fuse itself, then at the idiot light, then the fusible link, then at the alternator. Once you find the point where you don't have voltage, then you can find out where the break is and why. If ALL those points check good, then you may have a bad alternator OR a bad connector. BTW, have you tried starting it, and briefly applying 12 volts to the brown wire while it's running? That would tell you for sure whether the problem is in the exciter circuit. If you start it and apply the voltage, and immediately notice a slight RPM drop, it's charging.
------------------ 88 Formula, "Asphalt Aviator"
"I've seen em---they're little fellers. You know, the Artesians..." ---caretaker at Olympia Brewery
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07:18 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
I have had no time today to work on the car. I had to take down a 24' above ground pool completely and pile it neatly at the curbside, throw hay in the hole it left behind X 3 bales. I am tired. If I get enough energy later-I may go out and work on it some.---will probably yank the center console too while I am at it. Of intrest; I do get a "ajar" light on the dash/
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07:32 PM
Vonov Member
Posts: 3745 From: Nashville,TN,USA Registered: May 2004
I have had no time today to work on the car. I had to take down a 24' above ground pool completely and pile it neatly at the curbside, throw hay in the hole it left behind X 3 bales. I am tired. If I get enough energy later-I may go out and work on it some.---will probably yank the center console too while I am at it. Of intrest; I do get a "ajar" light on the dash/
Whew...better you than me, brother...hmmm...maybe a short in the PCB for the dash lights? Lighting the wrong bulb?
------------------ 88 Formula, "Asphalt Aviator"
"I've seen em---they're little fellers. You know, the Artesians..." ---caretaker at Olympia Brewery
[This message has been edited by Vonov (edited 09-22-2004).]
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07:43 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
The power for that light comes from the GAUGES fuse. When you turn the key on, does your fuel, temp, etc gauge work? If they DO, then pull the Gauge fuse and try again. Do they work now? (shouldn't). If the work with the fuse in, and not with it out, then the BATT light is 99% certain of GETTING power, but for some reason not passing it on.
Check the lampholder. Change the bulb.
Let us know what you find.
John Stricker
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08:28 PM
Sep 23rd, 2004
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Today is work on the Fiero day! whohoo-- I will be updating as I search and hopefully figure out what is wrong. If all else fails I will install an ign hot wire with an inline bulb and run it to the alternator. I am going to try and track down the actual problem first though. Of interest---ED Parks wrote me and said that with his harness both the f and L terminals should both be hot with the key on-
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08:19 AM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Jeff, there is a problem. The connector with 3 pins are supposed have all of them hot with key on. That is to make them compatible with the Fiero wiring and allow alt output.
The Caddy Deville has only 1 hot.
The gauges fuse and the fan fuse feed the two you are missing. C-500 pin location B3 is for the light (must work for alt output) and C-500 pin location B1 is where the other feed comes through.
The exciter wire can come from any 12v constant source.
Hope this helps.
Ed Parks from The Fiero Factory 8710 B Hwy 53, Toney, Ala 35773 Store #: 256-420-5391 Home #: 256-430-9643
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08:22 AM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
(&^$%#$^*)(*&% I have let down the fuse panel and look what I found. The hot wire going to the guage fuse is present but the brown wire is missing completely. There is no return wire coming from the guages fuse. Now all my guages were working--speedo--tach- gas guage etc. So how they are getting power I do not know! Someone has obviously been in here before and done something weird.-the alternator worked on my 2.8 when it was in here???????? OK:: can I run a wire from the return side of the guage fuse up to the brown wire behind the guage cluster and splice it in????????
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11:24 AM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
(&^$%#$^*)(*&% I have let down the fuse panel and look what I found. The hot wire going to the guage fuse is present but the brown wire is missing completely. There is no return wire coming from the guages fuse. Now all my guages were working--speedo--tach- gas guage etc. So how they are getting power I do not know! Someone has obviously been in here before and done something weird.-the alternator worked on my 2.8 when it was in here???????? OK:: can I run a wire from the return side of the guage fuse up to the brown wire behind the guage cluster and splice it in????????
I don't see why not. It sounds like you may have bagged the bugger...
------------------ 88 Formula, "Asphalt Aviator"
"I've seen em---they're little fellers. You know, the Artesians..." ---caretaker at Olympia Brewery
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11:35 AM
PFF
System Bot
Vonov Member
Posts: 3745 From: Nashville,TN,USA Registered: May 2004
As far as I can tell it doesn't even exist??? there are some brown wires in there---let me go see where they are -------------pause---------going out to car-----------I found a total of five brown wires in the fuse panel--one large one 10gua? and four small ones. I have circled the four small ones--they go the two upper right hand fuse circuits--one is marked htr ac the one below it is not marked.
Ok -
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11:52 AM
Master Tuner Akimoto Member
Posts: 2267 From: South Florida,USA Registered: Jul 2003
Hi Jeff as I watch and see what you are doing this is getting you no where and you might end up causing more problems than you have now by burning the harness or the PC board on the back of the guage cluster if you try to connect wires that was not there .Each of these care are wired differently and the wires don't exactly match and I have observed this over the years of working on them and with every one trying to help you is only confusing the situation,if you were closer I would gladly fix the problem for you unless you want to make that long drive here or find an auto electrician to sort it out for you.
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12:17 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Thanks Keith----but the car will not drive as is so I have to try and figure this out. Upon further consideration though----the brown wire at the rear of the guage cluster - right side would only power the batt idiot light correct? so perhaps that is not the place to go with a splice?
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12:46 PM
Master Tuner Akimoto Member
Posts: 2267 From: South Florida,USA Registered: Jul 2003
UPDATE (safety plug) after disconnecting the nagative battery cable-----I spliced a wire into the brown wire in the right hand plug into the back of the guages. The other end was crimped into the appropriate place at the rear of the guages fuse. When I turn the key on I get power to the L terminal on the alternator connector--which is good---except for one little thing--- the batt light on the dash still does not light up. Soooooooo ????? perhaps I should wire an inline bulb somewhere to create whatever resistance the circuit is supposed to have? Oh--yes of course I tried a known good bulb at this location--still darkness.
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02:31 PM
Kento Member
Posts: 4218 From: Beautifull Winston Salem NC Registered: Jun 2003
In my post above I mentioned that I tried a known good bulb at this location. In addition; if the bulb was inline with this circuit----and it was blown----I would not be getting any power to the "L" terminal on the alternator connector.
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04:01 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Here you can see three things. The key is on. 1)I have power at the "L" terminal 2)all of the bulbs have been removed from the right side of the guage cluster 3)this is NOT working out in my favor.----read Ed's e mail above!
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04:50 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Well, I guess this will be the final resting place for the 4.9 Fiero since I cannot figure out how to make the alternator charge. Good Bye cruel world---going to buy the Tibeuron now-----put a fart can on it--
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06:10 PM
scrabblegod Member
Posts: 1014 From: Lexington, KY Registered: Jun 2003
The offer still stands. If you want some help, I will be through there Saturday on my way to Daytona. I will be glad to stop mand help. I am pretty good with electrical stuff. I will be in my 4.9 and we can compare the connections.
Gene
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08:12 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you need some help with this. You're beating your head against the wall and you need a fresh pair of eyes on the problem. There's so many things that are potentially possibilities that you need some help and a new perspective.
Take Gene up on his offer or enlist the help of some of the other Florida PFF people that are experienced with electrical problems.
John Stricker
quote
Originally posted by jeffndebrus:
Well, I guess this will be the final resting place for the 4.9 Fiero since I cannot figure out how to make the alternator charge. Good Bye cruel world---going to buy the Tibeuron now-----put a fart can on it--
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10:01 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Here is a thought-------I made this connection from the fuse panel to a brown wire in the right hand plug-at the rear of the instrument panel. This connection gave me power to the "L" terminal at the alternator connector---so I must be tapped into the correct circuit---what if I tapped on to the circuit on the wrong side of the idiot light--essentially bypassing the light and going directly to the alt???
However---this was the only brown wire in that plug----so perhaps it is not brown before it powers the idiot light.
Come on Jeff---this is not rocket science son ----simple circuit---power from battery to fuse panel-----from fuse panel--ignition switch powers the circuit---the power then goes through the idiot light and continues to the alternator.------something is wrong though---none of the idiot lights on that side light up? -----why wasn't there a return wire on the guages fuse---why would my tach-speedo--gas guage work if there was no power there from the guage fuse? What am I missing? tuh tuh tuh tuh tuh hmmmmmmm?????
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11:37 PM
Sep 24th, 2004
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
There it is---it's pink with a black stripe from the fuse panel to the cluster---and brown from the cluster to the alternator. Thank you Master Tuner for the schematic.--All I did was tapped into the wrong side of of the circuit. Going out to fix that right now.
I am sorry that I offended some people with my post. I am in a learning curve and have found this to be a great resource. I opologize to those who became frustrated with my postings. I was having fun taking pics and who knows-maybe someone else could learn from it. I will let you know later today what the final outcome is on this subject and I will try to never again bother you with a long post again. Sincerely Jeff
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02:35 PM
Kento Member
Posts: 4218 From: Beautifull Winston Salem NC Registered: Jun 2003
OK that is out of the way, Now Go batten down the hatches cuase it looks like Jeanne is coming to visit you. should have left the pool up another week and hope a tree fell on it.
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03:58 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
I determined that the alternator was bad---following the diagnostic procedure in the factory manual (key on) I gounded "L" terminal on the alternator harness connector. The batt idiot light came on. Manual says =replace or repair alternator.--I grabbed a spare caddy alternator, layed it on top of the engine--grounded it--fed 12v to the studded nut and plugged the harness onto it. Returned to ign switch --turne dit on--Whala!! batt chatge light is on. Problem fixed by exchanging alternator.-----now to put my whole dash/center console back together.
Thank all of you who helped and supported- I appreciate you. For those who were offended-I am sorry.
Good to hear it is fixed. Did you calibrate your tach for 8 cyl. If you have not re-calibrated the tach and the dash is apart, pull it out and send to me and I will take care of it for you. Just an idea.
cool now that the car is fixed and is driveable you want to run them against a 2.8? i am still trying to find a 4.9 to run me to settle this thing. Noone wants to do it.
Of course figuring out where jeane is going and all and after this passes, what do you say?
SH
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07:55 PM
jeffndebrus Member
Posts: 2772 From: Jacksonville, Fl- usa Registered: Aug 2001
Punisher-- find someone who is into racing. I don't have that kind of budget to blow--besides I like to sit back and keep the tree count while listening to 80"s tunes on the radio--if it's turned on at all. I didn't do a 4.9 to race! I just like the sound.
you spent wads of money and hours of aggravation just for the sound? Must be nice to throw money at something like that just to listen to something.
but I guess people do engien swaps because they dont' want the extra speed or acceleration. They want the sound!!!
You should have gone and bought a 4.9 caddy then. Like an actual caddy. It will still do 25 mph down those residential streets of yours and give a nice plush ride. Plus that sound you were craving from a sub 5 liter engine.
I am surrounded by 4.9's right now in florida here but none of the owners want to race. I can't believe this.
"You should have gone and bought a 4.9 caddy then. Like an actual caddy. It will still do 25 mph down those residential streets of yours and give a nice plush ride."
Punisher
How old are you ? Do you talk to people in person the way you write on the net ?
"You should have gone and bought a 4.9 caddy then. Like an actual caddy. It will still do 25 mph down those residential streets of yours and give a nice plush ride."
Punisher
How old are you ? Do you talk to people in person the way you write on the net ?
