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engine decarbonization? which method works? safer?..opinions/advice? by silver86se
Started on: 07-05-2004 11:51 AM
Replies: 18
Last post by: Spyhunter on 07-06-2004 06:00 PM
silver86se
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Report this Post07-05-2004 11:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for silver86seSend a Private Message to silver86seDirect Link to This Post
hi i am considering decarbonizing engine, and was thinking which method was best?. was it better to pour down throttle body ? or pour in oil and wait xxx miles to see? or pour in gas tank? or combiination of several methods?.........................i was condisering the parks products.or does any one have different info?......................i worry about pouring on hot engine and may dislodge too much carbon and cause cloggs later or gentler oil and gas with frequent oil change?...............................thansk..................
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post07-05-2004 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
Have your plugs got black and sooty?

I run some cleaner in a tank of gas every once in a while, but I haven't needed a carb-out treatment so far.

If the plugs are clean then so goes the rest, so far as I know.

Getting the engine hot and running up the revs in 2nd will kick loose most stuff that might be there.

Arn

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silver86se
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Report this Post07-05-2004 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for silver86seSend a Private Message to silver86seDirect Link to This Post
hi i they are clean, but i have done this on other engine and the oil pump got so gunked up that i had to replcaed, because so much stuff got knocked loose, and caused colgged oil filter also...................
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post07-05-2004 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTDirect Link to This Post
Oil changes are a good way around that problem.

I change every 3000 mi.

That, and not alot of idling or lugging.

Fuel cleaner every month or so, depending on the amount of use.

This is the best I can think to do. Your engine flushes are good to a point, but on a high mileage engine can get you into oil leaks.

Arn

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DanielKJenkins
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Report this Post07-05-2004 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DanielKJenkinsSend a Private Message to DanielKJenkinsDirect Link to This Post
The safest method that I have found is to physically clean out the oil pan and the valve covers and then do frequent oil changes.

I have rinsed out crankcases with deisel but that is a last ditch effort. It has worked every time that I have tried it but I bet I have been lucky .

The carbon on the intake valves is a seperate issue and is not affected by the condition of the oil or oil additives.

[This message has been edited by DanielKJenkins (edited 07-05-2004).]

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Kekipi
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Report this Post07-05-2004 02:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KekipiSend a Private Message to KekipiDirect Link to This Post
Carbon build-up is in the combustion chamber. I use a cleaner that I suck thru the brake booster vacuum hose, Large diameter. Warm engine to opperating tempture, shut engine off, remove vacuum hose from pipe, incert hose into can, start engine and run at medium idle untill all contents of can are empty, shut engine off and wait 30 Minuites. start engine and rev. between idle and 25-3000 RPM. The exhaust will smoke white for a while but after a short drive it will stop. All carbon will fly out exhaust valve. Mike
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silver86se
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Report this Post07-05-2004 03:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for silver86seSend a Private Message to silver86seDirect Link to This Post
if it sucked it thru, isnt there a risk of carbon lossening of valve stem giude/area and developing a smokey exhaust, i have been lucky so far but this engine has alot of dirt/sludge, fluhed and cleaned once, not by me, and if i get car i want to sure, it doesnt smoke now.....................
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Fierobruiser
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Report this Post07-05-2004 03:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierobruiserSend a Private Message to FierobruiserDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Kekipi:

I use a cleaner..................... Mike

And the cleaner you recommend is .....?

I have never tried it but have heard/read several sources that say to use a half quart of ATF 100-200 miles before your next oil change and that will clean out sludge also.


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[This message has been edited by Fierobruiser (edited 07-05-2004).]

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Iain
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Report this Post07-05-2004 03:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IainSend a Private Message to IainDirect Link to This Post
Not a lot of people know it, but water is actually the best way of cleaning deposits out of the combustion chamber. Anyone who has taken a head off after a blown head gasket will tell you how clean the chamber(s) is/are. This is due to the scouring effect as the water turns to steam.

Get yourself a plant sprayer, set it to 'mist', take off the air cleaner.
MAKE DAMN SURE THERE IS NOTHING LOOSE NEAR THE AIR CLEANER, INCLUDING THE FASTENINGS!!
Start the engine and set it to a high idle, approx 2000rpm. Spray water mist into the intake about 10 sec, Loads of white smoke will come out of the exhaust. Wait 20-30 sec, repeat as often as you feel necessary. If you have any water pooling anywhere, stop the engine and mop it up.

NEVER pour water in, or use a 'stream' setting, water doesn't compress, it bends rods and breaks pistons and cranks.

Iain

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Doug85GT
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Report this Post07-05-2004 04:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Doug85GTSend a Private Message to Doug85GTDirect Link to This Post
I have had great results on my Fiero and Stealth using Seafoam. Just put 1/3 of a bottle in a 1/4 tank of gas, another 1/3 in the engine oil and the last 1/3 suck it into the intake. You have to change your oil within 500 miles after you add seafoam to your engine oil.

The 1/3 bottle into your intake goes in through a vacuum hose with the engine running. I pulled my air filter out and used a vacuum line that goes to the cruise control. The reason I pull the air filter out is because I didn't want the Seafoam getting on my K&N air filter. Once all of the Seafoam is in the engine, shut it off imediately and let it sit for 5 minutes. Don't forget to put your air filter back in. When you restart your car, it will smoke like you have never seen before. Take your car out and open up the throttle a few times to blow the loose carbon out. It is a good idea to do this at night when the smoke cload isn't as visible.

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-05-2004 04:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaDirect Link to This Post
Ed Parks sells or used to sell a decarbonizing kit that worked so well, it actually made the piston tops shiny. THis kit was the same product reportedly used by BMW and Mercedes dealers.I have not used this kit in a while but if I remember correctly it was a three part chemical set that you added to the tank, and also sprayed into the throttle body. I don't know what the stuff consisted of but it worked extremely well. It was not like the cheap " snake oil" stuff sold at Autozone or Pep Boys as the kit cost around $40.00 but although it costs more, it does provide results. .

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Report this Post07-05-2004 10:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsDirect Link to This Post
I also had excellent results using Ed Park's kit and highly recommend it.
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ryan.hess
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Report this Post07-05-2004 10:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
I highly recommend the water technique as posted above. It doesn't make that much of a difference if it's a "mist" or a "stream", as the air velocity going into the cylinders is such, that it vaporizes the water fairly well. I think I have a link to this... here we are. Very informative:

http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6710

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ryan.hess
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Report this Post07-05-2004 10:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post

ryan.hess

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quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:

I highly recommend the water technique as posted above. (for those who want to save some money that is) It doesn't make that much of a difference if it's a "mist" or a "stream", as the air velocity going into the cylinders is such, that it vaporizes the water fairly well. I think I have a link to this... here we are. Very informative:

http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6710

edit: water will not remove any oily deposits that form inside your intake manifold though...


ummmmmm.... at least I thought I clicked edit? Anyways, now I can add this: any treatment that is added through the intake may or may not effect all cylinders equally. Just FYI...

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 07-05-2004).]

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axcessitall
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Report this Post07-05-2004 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for axcessitallSend a Private Message to axcessitallDirect Link to This Post
44K from BG Industries is amazing! Run a can in your next full tank of gas and you will feel a MAJOR boost in power, I do one can twice a year and it is night and day.

My old 2.8 used to love the stuff but it does cost about $20 a can and you have to ask for it at the parts store because they don't keep it out on the floor.


Here is a quote

"BG 44K - Total Deposit Control Fuel Additive -
BG 44K quickly and effectively cleans the entire fuel system, including injectors, intake valves, ports and combustion chamber. Because it provides efficient removal of upper engine deposits, BG 44K reduces problems caused by deposit build-up such as engine surge, stalling, stumble, hesitation and power loss. It is an excellent aid in tuning an engine since BG 44K quickly restores engine performance and improves driveability. BG 44K added to diesel fuel will provide quick clean-up of coked fuel injectors. It is compatible with all fuel system materials and common fuel additives. Contains no alcohol.
DIRECTIONS: Add one 11 oz. can BG 44K to fuel tank at fill-up."

Here is a link to buy the stuff if you can't find it.

http://www.extrememotorsports.com/gwcat/misc.htm

They also sell MOA that stuff is the cure all for a stuck valve, I have a lot of buddys with AUDIS and BMWs and Vettes who have all used both 44k and MOA and would not drive with out it.

Buy a can and see for youself!

Axcessitall

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[This message has been edited by axcessitall (edited 07-05-2004).]

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shop_rat45
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Report this Post07-06-2004 12:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for shop_rat45Send a Private Message to shop_rat45Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierobruiser:


And the cleaner you recommend is .....?

I have never tried it but have heard/read several sources that say to use a half quart of ATF 100-200 miles before your next oil change and that will clean out sludge also.


I have heard this before also, but it is not a good thing to do. ATF has what's called "Friction Modifiers" in it. It is basically a type of sand. This is what helps transmission discs grip to each other. So, if you put this in your oil pan, you might as well put sand in your engine. I would not advise doing this.

Kris

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fuzz
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Report this Post07-06-2004 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fuzzSend a Private Message to fuzzDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by shop_rat45:

I have heard this before also, but it is not a good thing to do. ATF has what's called "Friction Modifiers" in it. It is basically a type of sand. This is what helps transmission discs grip to each other. So, if you put this in your oil pan, you might as well put sand in your engine. I would not advise doing this.

Kris


I think this should read "Fiction Modifiers" Sorry, but I have hever heard of anyone saying ATF has a type of sand in it. If you talk to any old diesel mechanics they will tell you ATF works great in the diesel fuel system (one quart of ATF to 50 gals fuel) to clean sticky injectors. I use it to clean sticky hyd. lifters. It has never failed me or caused any problems.

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shop_rat45
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Report this Post07-06-2004 01:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for shop_rat45Send a Private Message to shop_rat45Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fuzz:


I think this should read "Fiction Modifiers" Sorry, but I have hever heard of anyone saying ATF has a type of sand in it. If you talk to any old diesel mechanics they will tell you ATF works great in the diesel fuel system (one quart of ATF to 50 gals fuel) to clean sticky injectors. I use it to clean sticky hyd. lifters. It has never failed me or caused any problems.

Why do you think it cleans sticky injectors? I guess I should have worded that a bit better. It's not a type of sand, but "like sand". Think about what happens to an engine when you burn oil in it. It sludges up the engine. It is the friction modifiers that do the work. Yes, when you dillute it into 50 gallons of diesel, it won't sludge everything up, but the friction modifiers are still there. You might as well go dump a bit of sand in your tank. Here is proof that there are friction modifiers in ATF.

 
quote
From http://www.pennzoil.ro/carcare/pete/spring_1998/choose.htm

Each of the "big three" U.S. vehicle manufacturers (Ford, GM, and Chrysler) has a different ATF specification. One basic difference between each manufacturer's ATF specification is the amount and type of friction modifier required in their formulation. Slight mechanical differences in each manufacturer's torque converters and clutches require different levels and types of friction modifiers to insure proper operation. The most current specification from GM is DEXRONŽ-III. DEXRONŽ-III formulations have excellent oxidation resistance and friction stability to help preserve shift quality. DEXRONŽ-III supersedes all previous DEXRONŽ formulations and can be used to service any GM automatic transmission.

[This message has been edited by shop_rat45 (edited 07-06-2004).]

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Spyhunter
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Report this Post07-06-2004 06:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpyhunterSend a Private Message to SpyhunterDirect Link to This Post
From what I've gathered, the water or ATF in the intake is an old hot rodder's trick that can help out with some carbon problems - I would suggest using a spray bottle to keep it misty. Seafoam will probably work well too. However, none of them will do much good against heavy buildup on the walls of the intake tract (mine looked like crap after trying all these tricks) But im sure the combustion chamber is nice and clean

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