So i just bought my first fiero. it is an 84 with the duke. and a 4 speed manual. i picked it up for 500 bucks. the body and interior are in great condition. i had to have it towed to my house when i first got it. since then i have been trying to get it running but there has been little advancment, the engine is cranking over. but the fuel injector is not spitting out any fuel. does any one know what the problem might be. About a week about i had wit working for abot 15 seconds then it stoped and hasent worked since. does anyone have any ideas on why this happened. all advice would be greatly appreciated. P.S. i am a really bad speller so sorry for the mistakes if there are any. i am sure there are alot.

Thanks again

------------------
ATO 4 LIFE

hello welcome to forum.............

hi first of , goto autostore and get a haynes or chiltons manual, essentail reading, if you can get a factory manual of internet better,.........now you have to see according to your post if you have fuel , when you put key in do you hear trhe realy run at least two seconds, can you smell fuel?, pull spark plug one wire and ground, have someone crank do you see spark? have you cahnged wires,plugs fuel filter etc,
have you checked/cleaned bat cables for corrosion and also starter leads, check fuses, does it have new gas?...............as you can see there are alot of small things to be checked one at atime and it has to be methodical.......................good luck.................

ps there are sevral post in the last couple pages look them up even a 4cyl one, might have info you could use...............

ps just thought of old trick get cup of fuel, pour a cuople tablespoons dowm tb, stand back and crank, if engine starts and dies ,then definastelt fuel proble, can you get/use fuel presssure gauge, connect to fuel/shrader valve for 4cyl you should get 14 psi.good luck..................................

[This message has been edited by silver86se (edited 06-20-2004).]

Congrats on your purchase. It sounds like what happened to me on numerous fieros some things you might want to check.
1) one of the problems that happens with these old cars is that the connector hose in the fuel tank that attaches the pump to the steel fuel line decays and falls off.

2) Check to see if the valves are moving when the engine cranks. The timming gears have a tendancy to break and therefore the valve train does not move with the pistons.

Just a few thoughts good luck.

got a haynes manual already i have fuel dont know if it is new or not. no fuel is coming out of the fuel injectors but i can hear the fuel pump turning on and when i pinch the line i can feel pressure i am also getting spark. i also have new spark plug wires that have been gaped to .06. All of the wire conecdtions seem to be ok as well as the fues.(does anyone know how to test a fuesable link) Shouldent gas still flow through the injector even if the gas is old. the fuel injector is also in working condition. i had it tested. the positive wire going to the fuel injector is also reciving power but the blue wire going to the injector dosent have and positive or negitive charge.

------------------
ATO 4 LIFE

You said the injector wouldn't spray. OK.
1. Remove the air filter cover. Pour a small amt of gasoline down the throttle body. About a 1/2 tablespoon. Quickly replace the cover. Try to start it. If it runs, you just confirmed you have spark, and good timing gears. Now, to get down to the good troubleshooting tips mentioned above.

2. Check the fuel pump fuse in the fuse panel under the driver's side dash.
3. Turn the key to 'on'. You should hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds, then cut off. If it does run, you know the pump is running and probably good.
4. For the fuel pump to run while cranking the engine over for starting, one of 2 things has to happen. The electronic control module (ecm) has to recieve a spark reference pulse from the distributor, or the oil pressure must reach 4 psi. The oil pressure switch is a back up for the signal from the distributor. The most common cause of the ecm not to recieve a reference pulse is a bad ignition module, which is located inside the distributor. A bad module will also result in no spark.
a. The ecm does not turn the fuel pump on directly. It energizes a relay on the left engine firewall, and the relay turns on the pump. To correctly tesst the running of the fuel pump, apply 12v to terminal G of the aldl connector which is located behind the cigarette lighter face plate on the center console. This bypasses the ecm and the fuel pump relay.

This will get you started. Try some of the suggestions here and above and get back to us.

Edit:You posted while I was typing. You will need a noid light to test the fuel injector circuit. Instructions are in the Haynes manual.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 06-21-2004).]

Welcome to the forum,your either not getting spark or fuel,one or the other.Possibly the fuel pump relay or a bad fuel pump.Is there fuel in the tank?

Hey maryjane, that was worth a A+ rateing.

ok so i tried putting gas into the throtte body and the engine did start but then died with in seconds. i tried running a diagnostic test but nothing happened wehn i connected a 12 volt sorce to the g terminal and i herd the pump go on. i tried to do a diagnostic test by connecting the a and b terminals but nothing happened when i turned the key.. Also i have a full tank of gas. how do i check the fuel pump relay to see if it is working or not? all the fueses are good. i am going to see if the fuel presure is off other than that i dont really have any where else to go from here so i decided to start on the intierior. i have already gutted the inside and am begineing to lay down dynomat and am buying new carpet and also painting the panels all black. i will post some picks later when i get my camera working. so far that is the only thing going right.

------------------
ATO 4 LIFE

I think your fuel filter is crapped up! Also check for obviously kinked fuel lines. You will need to change this anyway....

hi the car staring with the fuel and then dying is a good sign, that means spark and ignition are working, and timming is probably good, it may be a fuel issue or wear and taer on the injectors, get a fuel gage, you can even rent/borrow at auto parts stores and trace if from there also the relay and wiring need to be verified, new fuel filter is cheap easy fix......................good luck........................

so yeah i have put in a new fuel filter and a new fuel relay. i also checked the fuel pressure and it was around 9 and 10 psi. the car still wount run. i wish something would just work. any more ideas would be great. also how do you put pictures on her i will add some to see if that can help out trying to figure why she dosent need to start. thanks again for all the great ideas. i have also begain ripping out all the intieiro and am laying down dynomat everywhere. also done with that one. i also painted the interior panels black they look good. thanks for all the help again keep the ideas coming.

Well, your fuel pressure is a little low. It's supposed to be 13psi on your engine, but it should at least start with 10psi. Mine still ran at 6psi, albeit sluggish.
It does sound as if the injector is not 'firing'. It's a function of the ecm. There is a fuse for the ecm, that according to the diagram, controls the injection process. You should check that fuse 1st, along with all the wiring connections on the ecm, which is behind the upright portion of the center console. 2 screws inside the console, and 2 screws in the front of it.

try unscrewing the fuel line right before the fuel filter. Have someone turn the key on and see if fuel spits out. If it does then you know that the pump is working. Then precede to check the connection on the injector. Use a test light on the connector that goes ontop of the injector and see if power is being sent there. You may need a new fuel injector.

Your real close,
Check to see if the connector on the fuel injector is connected. This delivers electric to the injector. They can snap off. Clean off the injector while your there. Check all fuses and replace any that are bad. Then check if the injector works. Put in the key turn to on but do not try to start, the injectoer should make a recurring noise. Try to start it. If gas is not being delivered I bet it's a bad injector.

i just checked the ecm fuse it is ok. i also checked the fuel line befor the filter. it was flowing good. the connections at the ecm also looked ok. i am going to take an even deeper look at those tommorow. any other ideas

------------------
ATO 4 LIFE

if you have fuel being pumped up the line and its not spitting out of the injector then i think it may be an injector problem. Try hot wiring the injector and see if you can force it to fire and check if the injector is getting power. If the injector is not getting power but will fire when forced, then you atleast know that your injector works

ok i checked the wires on the injector and only the red one game me a positve lead i wasent able to get a negitive lead with the blue wire. i think that has to do with the ecm. i tried hotwireing the injector and that worked i had the fuel going.( i was hopping it would be able to do it on its own after that but no dice.) any ideas i will be back in about 30 mmin i have to pick up my mom at her friends house to much to drink i guess. later i will be check for replies when i get home,. thnak s alot

------------------
ATO 4 LIFE

You really should test the iinjector connector with a noid light. It's similar to a test light but uses leds. You will usually have power to one side, but the ecm provides the ground, which causes the injector to 'pulse'. There is a note in Ogre's cave under electrrical/ecm tools on what to look for. You want to careful about using a regular test light on the inj harness for extended periods. You can damage the ecm. Same goes for hooking 12 v to the inj and grounding it. It isn't designed to have voltage running thru it without pulse.

The fact that you can't pull the codes points to the ecm, unless the check eng light is burned out. It sshould at least flash code 1-2 1-2 1-2 with pins A & B jumped together-key on. I don't think it applies here, but I did run into a Chevy truck once that had spark, but the inj wouldn't fire. The burned out check eng bulb caused it. Go figure.

Just for the heck of it, unplug the throttle possition sensor connector and see if the injector fires. I can't find the thread now, but there was a discussion some years ago that explained under certain tps feedback, the ecm will kill the injector signal.

On the far right side of the engine, behind the belts, there is a bundle of wires that run front to rear across the cyll head. There should be a plastic cover over them, but it frequently falls off and is lost. Thiss allows the wires to become damaged by the pulleys and belts rubbing on them. Check that out.

Are you sure you have spark? I believe the same signal from the pickup coil in the dist is also used by the ecm to pulse the injector.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 06-27-2004).]

ok this really bites now.

i checked all 4 spark plugs one more time they were all gapped correctly and also sparking.

i also checked the wires maryjane spoke of that run down the block. they were still covered with the loom and also i checked the wires and they all seemed to be in good shape there were no splits in the insilators.

I tried unpluging the throttle response sensor but no go again.

about tow to three weeks ago i was able to get the check engine light on when the car started for 20 secs or so but since then there was no more start. when i add gas to the tbi the car starts up but it does not fire the injector still and also the check engine light does not come on. i am going to pull the dash off soon to see in the buld is burnt out.

keep the ideas coming and i will up date you later tonight.

You could do a diagnostic test and see if that gives you any codes. If the check engine light doesnt come on while doing the diagnostic test then the bulb might be burnt out. to replace the bulb, take the cover off that is behind the gages (on the front window side) and the check engine light is like second or third from the bottom. the replacement light is number 194...

http://www.lookinhere.com/automobiles/fiero/ <--- how-to diagnostic codes

ok ok ok ok a sign of some light at the end. check this i tried grabbing all the cables that are connected to the positive terminal and just wanking on them and guess what my baby started up. it was running good for about a min. then she stoped so i started her again and oh yeah she pered. the check engine light was working as well and i belive it recived some codes but befor i was able to check them it happened # 3. but there is another set of problems.

1.) when i would rev the engine she would stall.

2) if i reved her softly she would be ok.

3.) now the big problem. after having her run for about 2 min total. the battery just went dead i wean done dead. there was no power to anything. i hooked up a test light to it and nothing. the battery was very warm when i checked it. i unhooked and let it sit for a while. i tried to test it with the test light but noting at all. the wires coming from the positive terminal were also very warm.

i was so sad. it was like getting a new dog then tow mins later it just kealing over. i was so excited to get her going hopefully she will go again. i am takeing the battery in tommorow to class with me and i am going to have it tested. also me a my buddy are going to inspect those wires alot closer tommorow, we are going to get some mirriors to help out with seeing in those small deep places. also we will put up jack stands. Man that was a hard thing to go though.

any ideas are more then welcome.

------------------
ATO 4 LIFE

Dissconnect the negative cable and charge the battery. DO NOT try to jump start it in it's present state or until you have inspected the wiring. My guess is, that you've just run the battery down from trying to start it all this time. The cables you grabbed have 2 fusible links in them, very near the lifting eye on the cyl head. Inspect them visually and with a meter, for continuity.

thanks for the advice maryjane. do you know what the fuesebale links should show. i am going to do the battery tommorow. i will try to come accross a meter as well.

Should show a little more resistance (impedance?) than the size wire they are in. If they are blown, they have max resistance -an open circuit.
Check your battery cables closely, epecially the smaller red wire coming off the positive cable. It's prone to being bad where it enters the terminal, and hard to tell just by looking at it.

O.K. bud seems like all you gotta do is make sure those wires at the injecter are snapped in place. They dont just rest there they clip on. If you were able to hot wire the injecter seems like it works O.K. The problem must be not getting electric to the injecter. It is already going to the sparks as you say. Dont be yanking on stuff but glad you wiggled because it indicates a loose connection. The problem with the stalling could be bad gas or bad timing and you can work on that later. Right now your Fiero wants to live! Halayluyah!

A bad alternater will cause the car to run like "Bleep" but it could be the battery or cables too (most auto parts stores can test these ).If your alternater is bad the car can run,untill all the juice in the battery is gone,then the engine would die.If you have a battery gage on the dash it should read about half way or slightly above,if it's near the red zone or too low then your alternater is bad.But worn headlights can also drain the battery disconnect the single wire to the right and left headlight,I wouldn't pull the fuse because you'll lose your brake lights too.Any budy know if theres a relay for the injector???Also make a better ground for the small black ground wire that comes off the battery and inspect the battery cables good.It sounds like your car is current starved (possibly the battery?).....

[This message has been edited by James Bond 007 (edited 06-28-2004).]

On the 84's, there is a junction on the starter motor solenoid that has the battery positive cable and 2 fusible links on it. If this connection gets the least bit loose or dirty, it can cause a variety of electrical problems including a complete loss of power in the car. These two fusible links carry all the power for the car and over time heat and such can make them very brittle. It sounds like you have some intermittent electrical "opens". ( They moved these links on 85 and up to a much friendlier place by the battery)
If you end up with power to everything but the ECM, there is a single wire connector underneath the intake manifold near the distributer. If it is loose or unplugged, the ECM will not get any power. (This is also where you would unplug the ECM to clear any stored codes.)

------------------
Rod Schneider, Woodstock, Ga.
"You can't have too many toys!"
1988 Fiero GT
1966 Porsche 911

[This message has been edited by Rodrv6 (edited 06-28-2004).]

On the 84's only and the wiring diagrams do not show this there is a red wire tapped off by alternator comes across under the throttle body and enters the harness via a plug similar to the O2 sensor one. This + 12 volts is used only by the ECM to power the fuel pump relay and the injector. Found on one very stuborn 84 once almost totally by accident due to a burnt wire. Dan

i think i am the happiest and saddest man alive today.

i got my baby running let me tell you how. firsty off i have to thank eveyone for there great ideas they all were very helpfull.

1.) i decided to jack the car up just to see if anything was going on under there and guess what there was one major thing, the main positive battery cable going to the starter. i guess when my buddy was putting the cable back on to the starter he had the wire upagainst the headers. yep you guessed it i had some really fried wire for dinner. extra crispy. i went to the store got a new battery cable then put it in. after i did this it still didnt go. i told my buddy to pull on the fuesable link a little bit and guessed what she was running great and loud. i was so happy. i put the seats back in really quickly just to test her out on the road. then the next problem.

2.) As i begain to shift her into first all i herd wqas her crying. The clutch i belive. if any one knows if i am corrct please tell me so i can buy a replacement.

now i bet you understand why i was the happiest and saddest man alive.

------------------
ATO 4 LIFE

Hmph, so you got it running and now it makes noise when you put it in gear. What kind of noise? Is it when you put it in 1st or when you try to take off? Have you tried putting it in 2nd to see about the noise? Seems like you might be better off solving that wiring problem before you drive far off anyway.

i cant get it to shift into first or any other gear including reverse. the sound is really hard to explain but it only happeneds when i try to put into gear. also it isent even letting me put it into first gear no noise or anything it wount go all the way. i am going to have a clutch kit put in. i am going to try to do it myself or bring it to school and let them have some fun. tommorow i will have the inside all dyanmated.

Ah sounds like your in for some fun and some work and some time too. I think you will get it going but some detective work is in order. Sounds like it's been altered rather than fixed. IMO the best thing would be to get it back to original condition and then take it from there with the little tweeks.