hey all.. I recentally got the bottom end apart and found some (whell, quite a few) metal shavings floating around the bottom end.. the oil pickup screen is almost completally clogged, and there are some bits sticking out from the 2nd bearing back from the balancer. Im going to get some pics up of the stuff once I get PIP downloaded and working.. what could have caused this problem? I am hoping to get my hands on an engine stand so I can get this completally apart and get a good look at the crank. :S I really hope the crank isnt done in.. if so, then I will just have to get one from a 3.1!

whell.. thankyou for taking a look..

jude

the oil pickup screen

note the chunk sticking out of the main cap

these arent small chunks..

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jude:

hey all.. I recentally got the bottom end apart and found some (whell, quite a few) metal shavings floating around the bottom end.. the oil pickup screen is almost completally clogged, and there are some bits sticking out from the 2nd bearing back from the balancer. Im going to get some pics up of the stuff once I get PIP downloaded and working.. what could have caused this problem? I am hoping to get my hands on an engine stand so I can get this completally apart and get a good look at the crank. :S I really hope the crank isnt done in.. if so, then I will just have to get one from a 3.1!

whell.. thankyou for taking a look..

Those "bits" from the second bearing are bearing. CAUSE- I would guess the engine uses oil as was run low, No oil equals no bearings. You will no doubt find that the crank is in need of grinding. So get ready for a overhaul!

[This message has been edited by fuzz (edited 05-19-2004).]

just so you know, its not like the car got this way under my watch.. that is why I am trying to figure out what went wrong (that way it dosnt happen again when I rebuild it!) it was like this when I bought it. I was told that it was overheated.. oh whell.. I planned on doing a N* conversion, but decided that this would still take all my friends civics with the 2.8L!

yeah.. the overhaul was coming anyway.. like I was definitally going to give the engine a "freshining up".. like new bearings, cam, balance the crank etc..

I just got off the phone with the machine shop, and they said that I will have to bring the crank in there so they can take a look and see what they can do with it.. appearentally the 2.8 cranks arent that great, and I might not be able to regrind this one..

that is what they said, what do you people think?

and if I have to get the crank machined, can I get them to do an offset so I get a little more displacement / more compression? Im shooting for about 9:! compression hopefully.. I wanna be able to run 92 octane pump gas though.. I think my uncle runs like 9.5 to 1 in his 327 on high-test pump gas (think it was the heads that were done though).. is this a bright way to make power? (I know of people decking the heads to increase compresson.. is an offset safe?)..

whell, talk later.. and wish me luck!

I will keep you filled in!
jude

[This message has been edited by jude (edited 05-19-2004).]

ooof - that is ugly!
yes, I would guess them be destroyed bearings
cant think of anything else that would be
but, you will see as soon as you start taking caps off
I have heard 2.8 cranks cant be re-ground, but dont know for sure.
a 3.4 shortblock might be a more cost effective way to go than a 3.1 crank & pistons, but thats all in what ya find

Forget about welding and offset grinding the crank unless you are going to spend more on the crank than the rest of the overhaul.

I can guarantee the crank will need to be ground, the question is can it be ground enough and get rid of the bad areas, that's why the machine shop was a bit evasive, they're not going to tell you over the phone "yeah, bring it in, we'll grind it for you and it will be okey-dokey" without laying eyeballs and micrometers on it. It's not that the cranks are any worse (or better) than any other economy type engine of the era, it's just they're not going to commit themselves to anything without looking at it.

You're looking at a full teardown and check everything with that much metal floating around, so pull the crank and get it to the shop so they can look at it and in the meantime check you cylinders and rods (or take the block and rods to them to check if you don't have the tools) and see if the engine is rebuildable economically or if you just want to find a 3.4 and swap it in.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by jude: just so you know, its not like the car got this way under my watch.. that is why I am trying to figure out what went wrong (that way it dosnt happen again when I rebuild it!) it was like this when I bought it. I was told that it was overheated.. oh whell.. I planned on doing a N* conversion, but decided that this would still take all my friends civics with the 2.8L! yeah.. the overhaul was coming anyway.. like I was definitally going to give the engine a "freshining up".. like new bearings, cam, balance the crank etc.. I just got off the phone with the machine shop, and they said that I will have to bring the crank in there so they can take a look and see what they can do with it.. appearentally the 2.8 cranks arent that great, and I might not be able to regrind this one.. that is what they said, what do you people think? and if I have to get the crank machined, can I get them to do an offset so I get a little more displacement / more compression? Im shooting for about 9:! compression hopefully.. I wanna be able to run 92 octane pump gas though.. I think my uncle runs like 9.5 to 1 in his 327 on high-test pump gas (think it was the heads that were done though).. is this a bright way to make power? (I know of people decking the heads to increase compresson.. is an offset safe?).. whell, talk later.. and wish me luck! I will keep you filled in! jude

Looks familiar. My old engine spun a couple of bearings, on my way back from Carlisle, and started to knock horribly. I barely made it home.

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 05-19-2004).]

Great News!!! You can get a new (not reground) crankshaft from Atlantic Crankshafts for $150.00.
Check out their website. I got one. Works great.

knock? heck! my engine wont even turn! so that is a "spun bearing"? that shouldnt be too aweful much of a problem.. now this "check everything for metal shavings".. .. most of them are stuck to the screen or in the bottom of the oil pan.. where else could these be hiding?

I plan on having the heads and block hot-tanked.. the machine shop said they would do the whole engine and check for cracks for like 25 bucks.. I figure that for that kinda keesh, why not.. I am waiting to get the harmonic balancer puller off a friend of my fathers.. it might take a while to get the crank out because of this.. :S oh whell..

but from what I see, the rods are fine, and so are the pistons.. so Im thinking after a good "glaze busting" hone, and some new rings and bearings I will be all set.. ofcourse I am doing a new cam and timing set as whell.. and cam bearings..

anything else I should do? the pistons look allrite, so I might as well keep them! what else do I need? an oil pump is a good idea, but is it a must?

I dont know.. this is really my first engine.. and I understand it wont be bulletproof, but I want it to last for a little while!

thankyou!
Jude

If you spun a bearing check the block and cap (or have it done for you) to make sure it will hold a new bearing. It could have damaged it. After you boil out the block to clean (don't forget the oil gallies) you will need to put in new cam bearings and freeze plugs. It sounds like you just want to "freshen" up the ehgine and not go through a complete rebuild so just check pistons for cracks in skirts and clean the grooves for the rings (get carbon out). LIGHTLY hone cylinder walls (check for correct pattern) and most definately put in new oil pump and timing chain. Heads should be looked at to.

Since you're having the block hot-tanked, bring the main caps along with it so the machine shop can check them out. The main caps may need to be line bored, or at the very worst, that one may need to be replaced. Have them take a look at the crankshaft too. If the scoring isn't too bad, they can resurface it.

Since the crankshaft will probably need to be resurfaced, ask the machine shop if they can cross-cut the oil feed holes for the main and rod bearings. This involves running a boring tool sideways across the holes to put oval grooves in them. Supposedly, this improves the oiling of the bearings. It's been said already, but it would be wise to replace the oil pump, water pump, cam bearings, and timing chain too.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 05-20-2004).]

hey.. yeah.. I am going to bring my whole engine into the machine shop, and he is going to pull the balancer and check the mains out..

we will see how bad it will be..

talk later..
nate