I have been asked many times how do you get your car to run so quick and I tell them that by understanding the specifics of the engine and willing to try some thing new.Smokey Yunic and Caroll Shelby (old school) are two example of this theory and were willing to try any thing to go faster than the next person so what I am trying to say is what mods do you know of or done to make your car perform much better and what are you using for that extra advantage..

(a) Head matching and porting.............5-10hp gain
(b) Intake porting...............................5-20hp "
(c) Exhaust scavenging muffler..........1-10hp "
(d) Fuel cooling.................................5-10hp "
(e) Diff Gearing
( f) Ignition upgrade
(g) Nitrous

Installed a V8 - 250 HP gain

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1986 SE 350 V8

[This message has been edited by tesmith66 (edited 04-23-2004).]

installed a v-8 - 285 HP gain

Russ

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86 SE350 x 4 speed with RSAD technology (Rapid Scenery Advancement Device)
86 SE2.8 x 4 speed (all-option restored)
88 coupe x 5 speed (future IMSA widebody 4.3L project)
85 SE2.8 x 4 speed very well optioned restoration project.
85 GT2.8 x auto needs everything but worth restoring

4.9 v8 200hp

Lost the ac unit = no idea

Better flowing exhaust system = no idea on gain

Aftermarket ignition system= No Idea on gain

Now if I told you, they wouldn't be secrets, would they? I upgraded the engine also.

Pushed off Really Big Cliff. Got to 33' per Second before stopping in 12'

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http://home.cfl.rr.com/fierose
Central Florida Fieroshttp://www.centralfloridafieros.org

quote Originally posted by Master Tuner Akimoto: (a) Head matching and porting.............5-10hp gain (b) Intake porting...............................5-20hp " (c) Exhaust scavenging muffler..........1-10hp " (d) Fuel cooling.................................5-10hp " (e) Diff Gearing ( f) Ignition upgrade (g) Nitrous

what is an exhaust scavenging muffler? I can see how a hi-flow muffler would help, but how can it help in scavenging? but, I'm still not totally clear on the scavenging concept...
and fuel cooling?

Weight (lack thereof) will do a LOT. Removing AC condensor, compressor, accumulator. Lighter seats, fiberglass replacement parts. Whatever you can do to reduce weight. It would be nice to see the Fiero in the 2300-2500lb range.
Trade off would be comfort, and I wouldn't consider gutting the interior........Paul

Here are some ways to make your car quicker and to make free horsepower with out major engine work.

Exhaust Scavenging .........is a way to have your spent gasses exit much faster through the exhaust system and this is achieved by coating or using a wrap to cover your manifold that causes it to heat up but still keep your under hood temp lower than normal and this dramatically increase your hp and makes a difference between winning and loosing.

Fuel Cooling ............is a way to reduce the fuel before it is burnt and what I do is to splice the fuel line and insert a cool can in which I add ice cubes to run at the track or if I am running the streets I fill it with dry ice ,the reason for this is cooler fuel is more dense and allows you to pack more in the combustion chamber there by making more horse power to toy with

Lost the AC + all its parts
took out the heat shields and the little blower fan in the back with all its tubing
(took out many miscellaneous parts, the car weighs 2490lbs)
installed a power pulley
headers
high flow exhaust + cat
roller tip rockers
aftermarket ignition
K&N filter
hypertech chip
CS alternator upgrade

With all that, not one of em made me say, "WOW my car is so much faster now!" Of course it is faster, only I would just do an engine upgrade instead of all that again. Didnt do any dino tests so I wont guess at HP gains.

I'm in the middle of the big experiment. I took some advice from knowledgeable guys like Master Tuner, Oreif and PBJ and I'm doing my best on a limited budget.

Scavenging -

I ported my Y and my manifolds, but I did not wrap the manifolds due to what I am told is their tendency to crack with too much heat.

I wrapped my crossover with industrial boiler insulation good to 1400*. That will cause the hot gasses to stay hotter longer and create more airflow speed in the exhaust flow. It flows into 2.5" pipe insulated down to the bend to the muffler (formerly the CAT).

On the heads I ported the exhaust ports only. They match 1-1/8" to the exhaust manifolds at 1-1/8".

I left the intake ports alone (I'll do a head job complete when I can afford it)

I fitted an Edelbrock intake with a 390 cfm carb. This flows more than the engine can handle.

I have the MSD coil and ignition system.

The air will come in cold from a scoop with a racing air cleaner for low turbulence & max flow.

Next year, I'll do valve work and possibly port the intakes a little.

Oh yeah, someday I'm interested in a 75 shot of NOS by way of a Top Shot setup.

Now just watch. Some guy with a turbo 2.8 will walk me. ... and all that work.

Arn

I put a weaker spring on my throttle body foot feed arm. It does't go any faster but it is quicker.

No I didn't. All kidding aside, I always felt my 87 GT 2.8 auto was quick enough. Not needing to do any engine work has left it as it is. I once was after every advantage I could get and while fun I now leave well enough alone. "If it ain't broke don't fix it".

My buddy was all hyped up at the improvement of his '02 F350 Dually. Burn rubber with four rear wheels, chirp shifting to second in a one ton work truck. Not empty either. I got a hyper tech set up for the GT. It was back out the same day. Still haven't got it running as good as it was.

Since the engine is sound I am not messing with it. I would consider getting rid of the computer and doing it's job myself if I could figure a way to keep the fuel injection. Any ideas? If not for the computer engineered systems I would even go back to old style distributor except maybe a Mallory Uni-Light instead of points. A high out put coil. If I had to go inside the engine, when it came out a 350 would go back in.

No, I really have not done much. As I said, it is quick enough. I searched the archives for power pulley and found nothing. Even went to the on-line Fiero store and could not find the one I bought from them to see if I had the correct name and spelling. Since I did not ask here about the chip, and seeing how much trouble and money you could have saved me, I thought I would ask about the power pulley. Should I put it on?

LT1-330HP

Here are a few tips I've heard about for the drag strip, but I've never done any of them. Zero out or minimize the front and rear toe. Put plenty of air in the front tires. Use heavy oil on the wheel bearings instead of grease and/or run them on the loose side. They all sound like good ideas for reducing rolling resistance, may be good for a few tenths.

quote Originally posted by Master Tuner Akimoto: Here are some ways to make your car quicker and to make free horsepower with out major engine work. Exhaust Scavenging .........is a way to have your spent gasses exit much faster through the exhaust system and this is achieved by coating or using a wrap to cover your manifold that causes it to heat up but still keep your under hood temp lower than normal and this dramatically increase your hp and makes a difference between winning and loosing. Fuel Cooling ............is a way to reduce the fuel before it is burnt and what I do is to splice the fuel line and insert a cool can in which I add ice cubes to run at the track or if I am running the streets I fill it with dry ice ,the reason for this is cooler fuel is more dense and allows you to pack more in the combustion chamber there by making more horse power to toy with

I mean no disrespect, and I admire your work. (quickest 4.9) Just a couple comments:

Exhaust scavenging is just a general term dealing with exhaust leaving the cylinder. I never have figured out how keeping the exhaust hot (expanded) helps move it through the exhaust system. Seems to me cooling it would reduce the volume you have to move out of there. Of course you want to keep it hot until the turbo if you have one. I'm not sure I'd call 1 - 10 HP a dramatic increase unless it's on a duke, which ain't likely to happen.

The cool can will help, by reducing the amount of fuel that vaporizes. Vapor does take much more volume that could be air. 10HP would be a lot to get from it though.

GL

Just some info on the subject:

Exhaust Insulating Wrap is an innovative way to create more horsepower and reduce under-hood temperatures. Wrapping headers with Header Wrap maintains hotter exhaust gases that exit the system faster through decreased density. Increased exhaust scavenging is produced, along with lower intake temperatures. Withstands continuous heat up to 2000° F, and contains no asbestos. Thermo-Tec exhaust wrap will not over insulate a system when properly installed due to a proprietary coating developed by Thermo-Tec, Thermal Conduction Technology (T-C-T) that conducts heat across the wrap surface. This coating controls heat build-up and dissipation.

Removed restrictive intake and exhaust.
Installed aftermarket intake and fuel delivery system.
Installed aftermarket exhaust system.
Installed bigger cam.
Ported heads.
Increased compression.

39.92% increase in horsepower. (63 horsepower gain)
20.12% increase in Torque. (39 ft/lbs of torque gain)

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Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.

Let's step back a minute and go with some basics, if we could.

First and foremost is to make sure the engine is in good tune. Plugs, wires, cap, rotor should be in tip top shape. Check your timing and start with setting it at factory specs. Make sure your EGR valve is completely closing off. Take it off and clean it if it needs it. Rarely do they need replacing. There should be no EGR opening at WOT.

Make certain that you actually GET full throttle from the throttle body when the go pedal is at the floor, very few 20 year old cars do.

If you have time, or spares, send your injector(s) out to a good shop to have them flowed and ultrasonically cleaned. They've passed a bunch of crap through them over the years and a lot of them have sat for a long time.

Make sure you have a good alignment and that your disc brakes are properly releasing and not dragging excessively.

Doing all of this will, in many cases, get back power that you never knew you lost (not to mention gas mileage).

If you want to do some modifications, but a High Flow (K&N) air filter element in the stock housing. The stock induction system ahead of the TB is really quite good and you'll get more benefit from doing that than a bored TB will get you. On the V6, pull the exhaust manifolds and do the old stock manifold port job to them. Just look in the runners and you'll see what needs to come out. If your conscience and laws permit it, take out the stock converter and either leave it out or replace it with a high flow cat. Replace the muffler with a high flow unit to give it that nasty sound and free up a few HP. 1.6 ratio rockers will help if you want to head into mild slight internal modifications.

An MSD 6A, MSD Coil, and wiring harness is a simple and very effective add-on that will help you idle more smoothly and help avoid misfiring at higher rpm. If you run a manual, consider a 6 AL with the rev limiter in it and on a stock internal engine, put about a 5700 rpm chip in the rev limiter in case you miss a shift.

After you've done all the above, you may be at the point that a custom chip will help on the top end as you'll probably be getting borderline lean. Don't waste your money on the hypertech variety, they won't really help much. Take it to a dyno for a session, preferably with a wide band O2, and see what it's doing. You may not need a chip but if it shows you running lean on the top end (higher than about 12:1) then it's time to give someone like Wester's a call and talk to them, and send them copies of the dyno results so he can tune you a chip. (There are several people that can do this, some right here on the forum, I only mention Wester's because they do a first rate job as well and are one choice.)

A lighter car will always go faster than a heavier car, all else being equal. Do the obvious first. Empty out your rear trunk. All those amps and subs you added are costing you time. Take out the spare tire, jack, and other crap up front. WASH THE CAR WELL WITH A PRESSURE WASHER!! You can easily lose 15-20 pounds of oil, grease, sand, and mud on most of our cars.

If you're running an automatic, change your fluid and filter, preferably going to a synthetic like Mobil 1 atf, and install a shift kit to firm up your shifts. Check and adjust your TV cable so it's sending the transmission the proper pressure signals.

On the strip, unless you're running a turbo and need to build some boost, don't powerbrake it. Just come off the brake and mash the gas. With the automatic versions and a 2.8/3.4, you'll have little wheelspin and get about a 500 rpm momentary stall speed increase by NOT powerbraking. Leave the transmission in drive and let it do the shifting. (Try it sometime, I bet the transmission doing the shifting beats your time). The only time NOT to do that is if you're geared to where you're shifting within a couple hundred feet of the lights into 3rd, and that's not likely to happen with the TH125C.

For the 2.8/3.4 I've seen a LOT of people revving way to high before they shift with the manual transmission. Unless you're running a modified engine like Oreif, anything past 5,000 rpm is going to cost you time by looking at the dyno sheets.

Going beyond the above mods will start to cost money. Underdrive pulleys gain you almost nothing on the Fiero. Long tube headers may help some, but not much. Shorty headers do almost nothing as compared to stock manifolds. A larger exhaust will also help somewhat, but you're going to be disappointed at the amount as compared to a cat free, hi flow muffler added on. If you start with a high flow cat or no cat and hi flow muffler, your gains from other exhaust mods on a relatively stock engine will be almost nil. Likewise with a ported throttle body, it's been shown again and again that the TB and neck is not the real bottle neck in the 2.8 induction system. Likewise, the "cold intake" pipe will show you almost no real performance gain, but they do look nice.

Some of what I recommend others are going to take issue with, but unless I had a brain fart in typing, I'll stand by all of the comments I've made above and I'd bet that if people try them, 8 out of 10 will go faster than they were before in the quarter mile.

John Stricker

The college I went to did some dyno testing of aftermarket ignition systems. The test mule was a 400hp 350ci SBC. All of these tests were conducted using the same timing advance, spark plugs, plug wires, etc and all numbers were taken with the coolant and ambient air temps as close to each other as possible, thus to minimize variations in the results.

Stock GM HEI system produced 402hp
MSD distributor and 6AL controller produced 404hp
Accel distributor, coil, and module produced 403.5hp

Just goes to show you that even on a 400hp engine, the aftermarket ignition systems are not worth the investment. However, it should be noted that these systems really shine when you start running boost or NOS where demands on the stock ignition system are exceeded by high cylinder pressures. Now as far as DIS is concerned, all the Buick GN V6 turbo guys are running 9's on the stock ignition system.

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power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Custom Chip Burning | Fiero Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com

These results don't surprise me one bit, Darth. I personally like the MSD because it will help an HEI style stock rev a little higher, it definitely DOES smooth the idle out, particularly with a hotter cam, and you can add the rev limiter which, I think, is the best in the business with it's soft touch control. But as far as gaining a lot of HP? Nope, not really. I look at it as a driveability improvement and some insurance. (pretty colors too )

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: The college I went to did some dyno testing of aftermarket ignition systems. The test mule was a 400hp 350ci SBC. All of these tests were conducted using the same timing advance, spark plugs, plug wires, etc and all numbers were taken with the coolant and ambient air temps as close to each other as possible, thus to minimize variations in the results. Stock GM HEI system produced 402hp MSD distributor and 6AL controller produced 404hp Accel distributor, coil, and module produced 403.5hp Just goes to show you that even on a 400hp engine, the aftermarket ignition systems are not worth the investment. However, it should be noted that these systems really shine when you start running boost or NOS where demands on the stock ignition system are exceeded by high cylinder pressures. Now as far as DIS is concerned, all the Buick GN V6 turbo guys are running 9's on the stock ignition system.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: A larger exhaust will also help somewhat, but you're going to be disappointed at the amount as compared to a cat free, hi flow muffler added on. If you start with a high flow cat or no cat and hi flow muffler, your gains from other exhaust mods on a relatively stock engine will be almost nil. . John Stricker

Good points for the most part and I agree, but you just have to open your exhaust manifolds and look and you'll see some wasted hp in the poor production quality. The highflow exhaust won't help a 1/2"X3/4" slot in your manifold process more air. Similarly, the Y will just plug up your efforts with your highflow muffler and CAT.

I wouldn't spend a nickel on a muffler or CAT without porting the manifolds and I am confident the 2.8 Y is the most under-rated problem for exhaust flow that the cars have.

Just the view point of an amateur

Arn

I took a look at you HP estaments and would have to say they look unrealistic. If you did:
(a)-(b) port match
(c) muffler
(d) Fuel cooling
You would not be anywere near your figures on a stock engine Maybe 20HP total. and most of that is from the exhaust. The stuff you listed will raise the potential of the engine but on a stock engine only the exhaust will do any good. (no cat larger pipe better muffler)
If you want bigger HP you have to brake open the engine and put in go fast goods.

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Rickady88GT QuadCam 3.5 V6

My favorite trick is working with negative vaccuum in the intake area. Good for 40 hp or more!

Kris

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Ya the neg vac trick is cool but it just runs flat in the rain.

I am trying to understand your post and will try to answer to my understanding ,those numbers are used as reference only not exact hp gains.Now what I am trying to say is with a stock motor say 150hp @140 Lb Ft of torque none of these mods will double those figures and give drastic improvements other than forced induction and NOS but with little improvement on certain components you can increase your performance that adds up to make a difference that makes one car faster than the other.
Now say you have a motor with stock heads with small valves and they only allows allows a limited amount of mixture in the combustion chamber now you make an improvement by opening up the ports cleaning up the pockets and install bigger valves that will allow you to ingest more fuel and air the explosion in the cylinder will be more powerful than before hence making more power which gives more speed and performance.
So if you can add 10 or 15 extra hp wont it make a difference?

A distributer recurve kit if you are running non computer HEI. I have never tried an adjustable vacuum advance but I can see how it could aid in tuning the timing curve.

Arn,

If you'll look earlier in my post, I mentioned porting the exhaust manifolds, that is worth some power. Thanks for pointing out that I didn't mention it a second time though when I was talking about the rest of the exhaust, it may have kept someone from being confused. What I meant was that if you port the manifolds, use a free flow or no cat, and a free flow muffler, most other exhaust mods aren't going to help much, if any, for a relatively tame 2.8/3.4L with the Fiero intake.

Thanks for the catch, though.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Good points for the most part and I agree, but you just have to open your exhaust manifolds and look and you'll see some wasted hp in the poor production quality. The highflow exhaust won't help a 1/2"X3/4" slot in your manifold process more air. Similarly, the Y will just plug up your efforts with your highflow muffler and CAT. I wouldn't spend a nickel on a muffler or CAT without porting the manifolds and I am confident the 2.8 Y is the most under-rated problem for exhaust flow that the cars have. Just the view point of an amateur Arn

OK, the stock 2.8 is about 135HP. Just for example most people that use the Camero 3.4 long block and Fiero goodies on top of the 3.4, they only get up to 180-190HP. The same is true for the people that spend big bux on rebuilding the 2.8.
Bottom line IMO dont expect more than 190HP from your 2.8 even after spending big money on it.
Camero/Firebird under the Fiero intake and ECM 3.4=190HP or big money on refreshed 2.8/3.1Fiero=190HP. Its your call.
That is only 45HP-55HP over stock. Is it worth it to you? IMO an engine transplant is the answer.

I went on a diet and lost 100 pounds, that shaved 1/10 a sec out of my 1/4 time.

I dont race so I can only repeet what those who do race say. Every 100 pounds is worth about .1 sec in a 1/4. So to drop just one second you will have to drop 1000 pounds? No not realy but you would have to loose alot of car to get noticable jumps in 1/4 time's.

On that note, the '93 Bonneville I stripped must have had a good 100 lb. of wiring in it. I wonder how much of that you could eliminate.

GL