Okay, I'll try to describe this the best I can. The crank pulley has something behind it. I take it as a harmonic balancer... except it doesnt seem to be weighted to one side or anything. Whatever it is, it is no longer connected to the pulley. From what I have gathered there is the pulley, a layer of rubber-like stuff, and then this metal ring around it. I bought the car and never noticed a problem... Suddenly (or gradually maybe?) i started hearing what sounded like a rattling noise at idle. Then I started hearing a loud noise every time i turn the car off. After finally getting someone to turn on/off my car while i looked under there, I saw taht this metal ring is just loosely hanging on the crank pulley. Once the car gets running at a high enough RPM it seems to move along with the pulley. once the speed of the pulley changes dramatically, it doesnt sync anymore and makes some noise. All the rubber has now come out and it makes a LOT of noise. The car seems to run okay, but I know if they put the piece there it must be important and I dont want to screw up my car. What am I talking about and how do i fix it? Any help would be great... if anyone has had this problem that would be fantastic!

Thanks all!

drew

It is called a harmonic balancer or dampner.
It cannot be loose. It will eventually cause other problems like worn main bearings or front seal leaks and such. Also it is used to set the timing of the engine. You need to replace it. Just buy one and you can swap over the pulley. You may want to replace the front seal on the timing cover while you have the old one off.
GM Performance makes a heavy duty one where the outdie ring is pinned to the inside so it never slips, But you will have to scribe your own timing mark into the new one. Only Fiero's the timing make on the left side.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 03-08-2004).]

Since I see an oil spot under the car (which I have never seen before) I think it may have been loose long enough to already cause a problem. Is this a part I can get from an auto parts place? Do I have to replace the entire pulley? Do I have to drop the engine out of the car?

AAAAAHHHH!!!

heh... I have 5 college classes, a full time job, and a part time job... Not having a car isn't an option... even if that means I run the car until it blows up on me. How hard and expensive is this going to be?

ETA: the last post was edited and answered some of my questions... i guess the last one I have is whether or not the engine has to come out of the car (and if so, how do you do that?)

[This message has been edited by PublicEnemy1 (edited 03-08-2004).]

yep, vibration dampener.

and you need to replace it.

quote Originally posted by PublicEnemy1: Since I see an oil spot under the car (which I have never seen before) I think it may have been loose long enough to already cause a problem. Is this a part I can get from an auto parts place? Do I have to replace the entire pulley? Do I have to drop the engine out of the car?

No, the engine does not have to come out of the car. What you do is jack the rear up and support it on good jackstands. Take off the right rear wheel and the wheel liner. Now you can get to the harmonic balancer. You will want a harmonic balancer remover and installer kit. Checker Auto Parts will "rent" you that set. (They make you buy it and then credit it back to you if you return it before the due date.)

Where is the oil leak? Do you see oil trails on the engine? Replace the oil seal that is behind the harmonic balancer while you are in there.

the leak looks to be between the enigne and tranny (rear main seal?) i think it may have been leaking longer than i have had this problem... but i dont really know when this problem started... i just know when it got bad.

When you replace the damper, check the timing marks (TDC etc). I got one from zone and the marks were way off, yet it was the correct part number. You may want to do that front seal too.

quote Originally posted by PublicEnemy1: the leak looks to be between the enigne and tranny (rear main seal?) i think it may have been leaking longer than i have had this problem... but i dont really know when this problem started... i just know when it got bad.

If that is the problem, it is a bugger to fix. You have to take the transmission out (at least) and that invovles some major disassebly.

quote Originally posted by Francis T: When you replace the damper, check the timing marks (TDC etc). I got one from zone and the marks were way off, yet it was the correct part number. You may want to do that front seal too.

The harmonic balancer that is sold in stores is for a large variety of FWD applications. The timing marks are way off because the timing index on FWD cars is on the right side of the engine (when looking at the front of the engine, not the front of the car). The Fiero timing index is on the left side of the engine, so the timing mark is in the wrong position. You have to set the engine at TDC for cylinder #1, then scribe a mark on the harmonic balancer.

i cant find this part anywhere... any idea what the auto parts store wants to call it?

It's called a harmonic balancer, and it's likely to be available only through the dealer or engine rebuilding shops. As far as the leak goes, leaks at the rear of the engine are commonly a failed distributor O-ring. Look at the base of your distributor where it goes into the block, if you see a puddle of oil there that's the likely source of the leak. It's $2 for a new O-ring and they're fairly straightforward to install.

JazzMan

you're right jazzman, there is a puddle under there. I guess it is all just dripping down the seam to the bottom of the engine. As far as the balancer goes, I found a place that *thinks* they have the part and i ordered it. Hopefully it is right and I can get it fixed tomorrow. Thanks for all the help everyone!

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: It's called a harmonic balancer, and it's likely to be available only through the dealer or engine rebuilding shops. As far as the leak goes, leaks at the rear of the engine are commonly a failed distributor O-ring. Look at the base of your distributor where it goes into the block, if you see a puddle of oil there that's the likely source of the leak. It's $2 for a new O-ring and they're fairly straightforward to install. JazzMan

If you do replace the O-ring, make sure to mark the position of the distributor rotor before you move anything. Make a mark on the engine to show where the rotor is pointing. Then make a mark to show the orientation of the distributor itself. Then pull the distrutor out. Make another mark to show where the rotor is pointing (the rotor will rotate as you pull up). This way the distributor will be in the correct place when you reinstall it.

thanks. I wouldnt have thought of that... anything else to watch for in doing any of this? (considering that the part I ordered will do me any good)

quote Originally posted by PublicEnemy1: thanks. I wouldnt have thought of that... anything else to watch for in doing any of this? (considering that the part I ordered will do me any good)

Rodney sells an O-ring that is better than most. If you can't find the balancer anywhere around you, go to www.engine-parts.com they sell one that fits the Fiero, about $75, IIRC...............Paul

Found the balancer, $40. Put it on, and it works. That was MUCH easier than I was expecting! Got the oil seal and distributor o-ring, too. Thanks for all the help everybody!

quote Originally posted by PublicEnemy1: Found the balancer, $40. Put it on, and it works. That was MUCH easier than I was expecting! Got the oil seal and distributor o-ring, too. Thanks for all the help everybody!

Where did you find the balancer for $40? Which "oil seal" are you referring to? I just discovered yesterday that my balancer needs replacement...

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quote Originally posted by Steve Normington: The harmonic balancer that is sold in stores is for a large variety of FWD applications. The timing marks are way off because the timing index on FWD cars is on the right side of the engine (when looking at the front of the engine, not the front of the car). The Fiero timing index is on the left side of the engine, so the timing mark is in the wrong position. You have to set the engine at TDC for cylinder #1, then scribe a mark on the harmonic balancer.

For anyone wanting to replace the balancer with a new one, Here's a few helpful tips:
Buy the GM Performance one. It is pinned so the outer ring does not loosen or shift with age.
Next prior yo installing it, You will notice the 3 scribed timing marks for the right side timing scale.
Make a scribe exactly 4.600" to the left of each line and paint them white. When you install it, the timing marks will line up.

Advance Auto Parts, after the core exchange $40

BTW, tho one i got has a lifetime warranty and it PURE metal... no rubber piece in the middle... weird

If there is no rubber piece it is NOT a harmonic damper, and can cause your crank to break!! I sincerely doubt Advance would sell you such a thing, especially as an exchange. Are you sure you just couldn't see the rubber, maybe it 's flush with the metal and painted?

GL

quote Originally posted by Oreif: For anyone wanting to replace the balancer with a new one, Here's a few helpful tips: Buy the GM Performance one. It is pinned so the outer ring does not loosen or shift with age. Next prior yo installing it, You will notice the 3 scribed timing marks for the right side timing scale. Make a scribe exactly 4.600" to the left of each line and paint them white. When you install it, the timing marks will line up.

Orief,

What is the part # for the GM Performance balancer? If it's simply as easy as measuring 4.6", I'd rather have a GM part.

quote Originally posted by FieroSE86: Orief, What is the part # for the GM Performance balancer? If it's simply as easy as measuring 4.6", I'd rather have a GM part.

PAW sells a new harmonic balancer for $64.95
P/N GMC-14085401
The GM P/N is 1405401 (The dealers by me want $75.00 for them)

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 03-11-2004).]

It may very well be flush and painted over and I simply cannot see it. I can also not feel a medium change.

BTW, the oil seal is visible once you take off the dampener. It is directly behind it. It cost me $1 and was only a standard pain in the azz to take out/put in. For a buck, it is worth it not to have to go back in there any time soon.

I have the same problem as you, the metal ring has broken loose and is spinning around on its own.
For now i am keeping the revs below 3000rpm. I am changing mine mid next week.

Lets hope its as easy as your was !!.

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Regards,

Paul Taylor, England.
85 GT Notchback, 2.8 V6, 4 speed manual. Custom made Tubular branch exhaust manifolds with true twin 3in exhaust system. No CAT, No EGR. No Crossover pipe. ADS Road Race SuperChip & 160 deg stat. Gen 4 eRam. Poly bushes all round. Lowered 2 inches. 16" alloys with 225/45 rubber. 0-60mph in 5.5 sec.

www.fieroforum.co.uk/Paul85gt.htm

You will need a gear puller to get the balancer off. You will need a lot of patience to cange the oil seal. Remember this: When you put the balancer and the pulley back on, there is a bolt with a big washer in the middle. That bolt is so you can make sure all the pulleys line up. If they dont, you will shear your belt .

[This message has been edited by PublicEnemy1 (edited 03-12-2004).]