is it possible to keep a fiero from spining all the way around once it starts? i was wondering cuz i was with my friend and his MR2 had the same prob. once you started to go no matter WHAT you do it just pulls a 180 or more. i was even trying full lock to lock steering and playing with the gas and the brakes still just kicked it around. granted it was wet on a slick parkinglot, but he used to be able to drift in his 90 supra fine. is it the design of our cars?

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'86 Fiero GT

www.KylesFiero.tk
www.XoticRydz.tk

I can drift in my 86 and have never had a problem with it pulling a 180 on me, its all about control and knowing your car. Although drifting isnt that easy due to the rear being so heavy.

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G Mo

Quote from Street&Strip

quote I think I've drove people crazy talking about Fieros over here. I'm like a travelling evangelist trying to convert people

Not sure if this is one for TD&Q or not, but...

1) set up your car right
2) DON'T touch the brakes
3) learn the car's limits
4) DON'T touch the brakes

These four simple steps will help you learn to drift a fiero without doing donuts.

The weight distribution and suspension design causes a Fiero to "go away" abruptly...but suspension setup and driver skill can overcome all (well, most).

And before anyone freaks out about how "dangerous" it is, I'd personally *love* to see every driver on the road be forced into learning to control their car well enough to be able to recover from a slide. Practice in empty parking lots...exercise on the street in emergencies. Knowing how to handle my car has avoided problems more than once.
Jer

My Fiero has come around on me three times, all unintentionally. Twice in the rain, while taking an off ramp WAY too fast (stupid me), and once while taking a turn too fast with the throttle mashed in second gear on an icy gravel road (also stupid me). The last one cost me a rocker panel, quarter panel, door skin, and a sail panel (thank you, mailbox). All three times, I felt like no matter what I did, there was no way out other than to just hang on for the ride and wait for it to stop.

It sticks way too well to do it on dry pavement, with my stock 2.8 and 225/60/15's.

I had a rear-engined, RWD Volkswagen Type 3 fastback 20 years ago, and I used to love to do low-speed, 2nd-gear donuts in the snow, but it was also a "spinner" in a higher-speed, power-on, icy-road turn. I put it into a snow bank once that way. Ahh, the joys of growing up in Iowa...

It seems to me that enough power to get the car straightened out again is what's needed to do good drifts. I've intentionally gotten my Thunderbird loose a few times, and it always felt recoverable. Never tried drifting, the way I saw it described in Car and Driver. I'd be more concerned about breaking a rear ball joint or tearing up a wheel bearing, with an independent rear end like the Fiero has. At least with a solid rear axle, or with the type of rear suspension design my T-bird has, I think it's a bit sturdier and could take the abuse better.

Same here. Ive seen peope that dont know crap about their pretty sedans and as soon as bad weather hits they're the ones you seen mowing down light poles and stop signs.

As soon as I get my camcorder Ill post a vid of me drifting on a closed street, ohh and a good suspension helps A LOT

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G Mo

Quote from Street&Strip

quote I think I've drove people crazy talking about Fieros over here. I'm like a travelling evangelist trying to convert people

Nothing like that has happened to me...YET. That, I guess, is the good thing about the 2.5l engine. I throw the baby into sharp turns on wet roads just to enjoy the controlled drift, applying power as needed. However, always mindful of the traffic...and good tread on the tires.

Now, not having tried this on a V6, I guess that I would still hold power in reserve and apply it promptly as the spin begins (...and crash? :rolleyes . No expert talking here, but I am sure that the experienced ones will soon shine some light on the issue.

This weight ratio thing is the only reservation I have about upgrading to a heavier engine. Hopefully, I'll learn a trick or two so that I can deal with this when the time comes.

Beno

i dont think the auto is helping, i doubt the BALD right rear helped either but when i hit the gas all it did was keep it going. i was jsut glad that we were doing this at the end of big parkinglot that was REALLY slick. if i slammed the brakes it wouldnt go around AS far but it would still go almost 180 i think i did a 360 while i was on the gas and countersteering. btw this was my first time trying ANYTHING like this and i would suggest it to anyone that doesnt know there car very well so that you know what your car does when you F*ck up. in my case its WHEEEEEEE!!!!!! *SCREECH*

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'86 Fiero GT

www.KylesFiero.tk
www.XoticRydz.tk

I've had the car try to come around on me a few times. It's always been on a wet road, during a turn.

One time, I took a highway offramp too fast (slowing down from 80MPH, I didn't realize I was still doing 60MPH... DOH!). Halfway through the curve, I felt the rear end start getting loose. As soon as I realized it, I lifted off the throttle ever-so-slightly and countersteered. The rear end tucked back in, but I was sliding sideways towards the center median. Luckily, the median was raised concrete. The car basically jumped into the air and landed on top of the median. Someone was nice enough to stop and push my car off the median, and I was on my way. If that concrete median hadn't been there, I'd probably be dead. The other side of the ramp was a steep downhill grade with a bunch of trees at the bottom.

There have been other times when I'd punch the throttle a little too hard during a right turn and "wag the tail" a little. But these are low-speed 90-degree turns... easy to recover from. Just let off the gas and countersteer a little.

One thing I don't understand is why people say you should hit the throttle when you feel the rear end getting loose. IMHO, the last thing you want to do during an oversteer situation is to add more (throttle-induced) oversteer. It'll make you spin even faster. Try it in an wet, empty parking lot sometime.

Hitting the throttle (and maybe some very light braking) will help in understeer situations, though. The braking will transfer some weight to the front wheels (more traction), and the throttle will kick out the rear end a little.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 02-05-2004).]

quote Originally posted by Fierotech: Not sure if this is one for TD&Q or not, but... 1) set up your car right 2) DON'T touch the brakes 3) learn the car's limits 4) DON'T touch the brakes These four simple steps will help you learn to drift a fiero without doing donuts.

I would have to agree. I had my formula in a sudden slide when I was trying to show off to some of my sons friends. I entered a long public entrance to a hockey rink which had a circle designed into it ( ya know like a speed bump, it forces you to slow down). I entered the circle at 45mph and jabbed the wheel right. Rear end broke loose on dry pavement - stayed off the brakes, corrected 3 times and was able to keep it from doing a 180. As I got out of the car the young guns were commenting on my driving ability ie. WOW! that was Cool! Then I went in the mens room and changed my drawers after my heart stopped pounding!

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Tim
Red 88 Formula Auto
Stock 2.8 100K+ Miles
Hypertech Thermomaster
NoCat NoEGR

if i figure this out ill post a video of me 86GT and a 91 mr2 and a 97 supra all drifitng in a parkinglot at night, it should be fun. now i just need tires. i did notice that when i went left it was a lot harder to control then when i went right because i have NO tread on my right rear and i have 4/32 of an inch on all the others. hopefully the Dunlop Sport A2's im getting soon will help.

EDIT btw i am using a stock susp. since i am po(i cant afford the or in poor)

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'86 Fiero GT

www.KylesFiero.tk
www.XoticRydz.tk

[This message has been edited by TaurusThug (edited 02-05-2004).]

Drifting takes driver skill and at least decent car setup. I would recommend that you get A LOT of pratice drifting in a large empty parking lot that is covered in snow or rain. When you learn how to control your car on a slick surface, then dry pavement is much easier.

I learned to drive on ice and snow. I remember nights when I would spend 4 hours and a tank of gas just spinning around a parking lot seeing what I could and coundn't do with the car. Drifting is cake for me now.

TT, just to clarify what I said before. In the toyful 35-45 mph hard turns that I take when no one is around and it is raining, I make sure to be in the proper shift and revs to power out of impending spin. There HAVE been a couple of close calls in sliding a little further than intended, but no spin with the Fiero.

However, if I went into a ramp at higher speed than safe, I'd simply get off the throttle...and never touch the brakes...and pray. I don't think I have the "cojones" to apply gas in the enclosed channel that most ramps present. Well, maybe if the prayers don't seem to be working . So far, I have remembered to slow down BEFORE entering ramps and managed to respect wet pavement while on them.

And, yes, I too did a few tests in a parking lot with the Fiero. Just get proper tires and keep trying.

haha first opportunity i got i "got to know" my car and found it VERY difficult to get the back end to come around to do a donut on snow and ice... I think it saved my ass today as a matter of fact i hit a ice patch on a back road today and kept my ass out of a big dirt wall.. only fishtailed a little coming out of it but. I'm glad i know how my car handles on ice.. hehe I'd like to get a better handle for it but after my buddy blew a rad hose doing donuts in his BMW my dad doesnt think its such a good idea :/ though he had the thing up to about 7 grand on the tach he was an idiot .. cracked his radiator too haha $1400 later he got his 7 series back. I havent had any real problems controlling my car on snow / ice.. And i have a crappy suspension and crappy tires hehe

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: One thing I don't understand is why people say you should hit the throttle when you feel the rear end getting loose. IMHO, the last thing you want to do during an oversteer situation is to add more (throttle-induced) oversteer. It'll make you spin even faster. Try it in an wet, empty parking lot sometime. Hitting the throttle (and maybe some very light braking) will help in understeer situations, though. The braking will transfer some weight to the front wheels (more traction), and the throttle will kick out the rear end a little.

If you are in a "power-induced" drift, and apply more throttle, you're absolutely right, it generally makes things worse, especially in a traction-limited situation. However, if there is a decent amount of traction to be had, adding throttle does two things...1) transfers some weight to the rear to help "plant" it, and 2) helps "force" the car back in the direction it's pointed. Throttle modulation is key in *controlling* a slide, but not often necessary to recover from one. I agree wholeheartedly with you, in a low traction throttle induced slide; dumping more power to the back wheels will generally make things worse. However, even in low traction slides, LIFTING off the throttle, and even more so, braking, can make things worse by transfering a little weight (not that any weight is transfered, but I digress) to the front. Ideally, you want to keep exactly the same throttle angle, or very gradually reduce throttle, in an "OhCrapITookThisOffRampWayTooFastInTheRain" situation...but those situations often override our standard brain-to-right-foot control circuitry.

You also pegged the "very light braking" in understeer. Most of the time people panic when the front end slides, jab the brakes, and loose all chance of the front wheels being able to do anything to help 'em. Scrub off speed and get some (theoretical) weight back on the front to get some traction back. Honestly, in a Fiero, I haven't had much luck throttling my way out of an understeer situation...so I just tune my cars so they oversteer, and I don't have to deal with it!

Take care all, and keep the shiny side up...
Jeremy

my little experience that i have learnd is to NOT touch the break, if you want to keep going in the slide but maintain control, downshift, it will wip it around but you will have moderate control, also the weight ratio is a big big big big big big big big big big deal seriously go buy a 60-100lbs bag of sand and put it under/on your spare tire. It will help a bit.

But i must warn you, dont drift, its too damn dangerous. If you do want to try, take as many precautions as possable, like go out to a mall parking lot after hours or something with no traffic and good lighting and no law enforcement agents, and practice there, if nothing else you ruin a tranny or breaks or something that doesnt cost you your life or anothers, but please be careful the fiero is little and zippy, which means danger.

good luck and wear your seatbelt!!!!!!

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Cameron Hoag

~*I want more than this world has to offer.
AIM: CDubbZ111
Year: 1987
Make/Model: Fiero GT
Color: Primer grey and burgundy
Transmission: 5spd Manual
AC PL PW PM sunroof defrost

The only time I've ever done a 180 I was playing around on a windy road in the middle of nowhere, and I was trying to drift it through a 90 degree turn. Came into it faster than I should have, stabbed the brake to transfer weight to the front and turned. However, the same thing that happened to me at Skip Barber Driving School happened again, and I got gas happy and jumped on the loud pedal too early and I spun it around. Had I waited a little longer before powering out of the turn, it would have been very cool.

What other people said about preventing a 180 is right on.

DON"T touch the brake
Counter steer fast and as far as you have to
Contrary to instinct and popular belief, using the gas pedal can help things. Like previously stated, you can control the skid with the gas pedal and when you're coming out of the turn, you can use it to plant the car and get a good launch out of the turn.

Above all PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE before you try this ANYWHERE besides a deserted parking lot.

The reason you experience this is the design of the car. If you want to experience a less dangerous experiment, here's one to try. Take a carton of eggs and empty it out. Take 4 eggs and place 2 on each corner. Balance the carton with the 4 eggs on your finger and attempt to rotate the carton. You can feel the added resistance from the eggs. This represents the typical weight distribution of a front engine or front engine and rear transmission (Like the C5). Now take the eggs and place them in the center of the carton and do the same experiment. You will notice that it takes less work to rotate the carton around the pivit point of your finger. This represents the typical weight distribution of a mid engine arrangement. The same weight distribution that allows a mid engine car to turn much easier and quicker also makes the car more prone to spin once grip goes away. Indeed a double edged sword. A front engine car will be harder to turn but can recover easier from a spin. It is also easier for less experienced driver to recover. A mid engine car can be a hoot once you've had mucho practice, just understand it's not going to behave like any other arrangement except another mid engine.

I got a little "lesson" in handling one night on my way home in my '84. I was coming through a large "S" section in the left lane (a bit over the speed limit) when a lady in a Tracker pulled out from a road on the left. She must have thought she could get to the right lane before I got there. She thought wrong. I went to the right to avoid her (it had to have been within a foot) and hit the gravel shoulder. I cut the wheel left again and got sideways but steered into it and drove out of it. Never hit the brake, it probably would have been disaster.

One lesson: our headlights being close together makes the car look farther away than it is at night. My dad had a bugeye Sprite and he had that problem a lot.

GL

Just my 2cents on this. Fiero's are not and never will be good drift cars unless you run crappy tires on it.

You would probably get a 1/2 dozen drifts before your tranny case cracked. I have blown 4 Muncies up and I am on my 5th before i realized that dumping the clutch spinng the tires and drifting it sideways through intersections and doing doughouts in parking lots was really bad for the tranny. I knew it was harsh but I thought the Fiero Trans was strong enough to take it. Granted the smallest rear tires I had on the car were 225s and moved up to 245's. Also the suspension parts need to be beefed up. Your lower rear ball joints wont and rear tie rod ends wont last. I love to mess around in my car. My signature manuver going to club meets was pull in and crank the wheels hard over dump it at 4000rpms do a full 180 and then back into my parking spot. Massive smoke from the tires. I can post pics of some of my broken trans cases if you would like. PM me in case I dont make it back to this thread.

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85GT 2.9 4spd MSD Everything, Big Cam and Nitrous. www.captfiero.com

You wanna drift in a Fiero? okay, heres how ya do it

Step 1: Put lotsa snow/ice on the ground
Step 2: Get OZ rims on your car with Kumho High Performance Summer Tires (225-50R16 back, 205-55R16 front)
Step 3: Let 'Captain America' (AKA Your "I KNOW EVERYTHING" dad) drive your car for the weekend
Step 4: After 'Captain America' gives you your car back, go to the drift event (make sure he's bent up your rear left rim pretty good from a curb hit and break your shift clip so you only have gears 2,4, and R) Enjoy!!! ^_^

sorry about that.....I've had a rough time with my Fiero....and Its giveing me a wail of headaches...... I just hope the engine swap can redeem it and make it a solid perfromer. And with that, revamp the interior, new tires and above all....NO MORE DAD DRIVEING CAR!!!! NEVER AGAIN!!! Grrrrrrr...... -Ben

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Fiero: Get in, sit down, shut up, hold on!!

I find it impossible to recover if my car is more than 70* out of shape. high speed only makes things worse. I spun 3 times at one event because I wasent used to the high speed and tight turns. I think the biggest problem is not having a LSD. In my Mustang with the posi I could slide all day long. In my 85 MR2 I find its as diffiucult to slide but easier to recover. I had the rear step out on a icy road at 80K but let off the gas and steered and I straightened it out after correcting 5 or 6 times.

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85 GT 4 speed 2.8L auto X'er

[This message has been edited by red85gt (edited 02-06-2004).]

quote If you are in a "power-induced" drift, and apply more throttle, you're absolutely right, it generally makes things worse, especially in a traction-limited situation. However, if there is a decent amount of traction to be had, adding throttle does two things...1) transfers some weight to the rear to help "plant" it, and 2) helps "force" the car back in the direction it's pointed. Throttle modulation is key in *controlling* a slide, but not often necessary to recover from one.

Hmmm... learn something everyday. I haven't come across a situation where throttle would help me recover from a slide, but that's probably because of my limited experience.

I understand that throttle modulation can help you drift through a turn, though. I've done it many a time on highway ramps and country roads, when nobody else is nearby. I've also gotten pretty good at using throttle-induced oversteer (in a 4-banger, no less!) to overcome my Fiero's natural tendency to understeer. I have to use alot of throttle, but it can be done. The tired old Duke doesn't have enough power to actually kick out the rear end (unless the road is wet), but has enough to compensate for the understeer.

quote Originally posted by TaurusThug: is it possible to keep a fiero from spining all the way around once it starts? i was wondering cuz i was with my friend and his MR2 had the same prob. once you started to go no matter WHAT you do it just pulls a 180 or more. i was even trying full lock to lock steering and playing with the gas and the brakes still just kicked it around. granted it was wet on a slick parkinglot, but he used to be able to drift in his 90 supra fine. is it the design of our cars?

And I thought I was the only one who these crazy(stupid) things in my Fiero

You need practice to master a tail out in a fiero! Its really not that hard, just requires really fast steering input and heavy use of the throttle. In a skid things happen very fast with our cars.

I've been driving fieros for 5 years, and been through three. There not much I can't do in my car .

One morning I was going around the corner in a dew dampened asphalt parking area, and hit a speed bump I didn't see coming. Funny how the road kept turning, but the car and I kept going straight! I was well off the asphalt before the maneuvering thrusters had any effect. I can imagine what might happen at higher speeds on dry roads.....

i doubt i will have to worry about me droping the clutch to get it to spin since mines an auto. i can still get it to break loose if i hop on the gas. i did notice that when i was puling around in the parking lot for the first time i took a turn a LITTLE faster than i should have and it kicked out to a about 60* and i countersteered to op. lock and it recoverd. would the 4/32 of tread make a difference on a REALLY slippery parkinglot (almost like ice when its wet)

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'86 Fiero GT

www.KylesFiero.tk
www.XoticRydz.tk

In wet or icy conditions, ANY tread is better than none...

GL

I've done alot of drifting, and none of it in the Fiero.

The best hard snow drifter I ever drove was a 1969 Pontiac Lemans, 350 cu. auto.

I could cox it into a 45* slide down a city street and maintain the slide all day.

The point of a car design like Fiero, is the same point as a Formula I McLaren.

It is designed to go thru corners smooth, fast, and under control.

It is not really designed for hotdog manuevers.

I true hotdog car is a front engine, rear drive car. Our cars are sophisticated little b___rs

They are intended to get you there quickest, not like Ace Ventura parking ( God, I love those scenes)

I would use the power slide aka drift only to get out of a front wheel slide or to get me out of danger if I was already committed to a turn and had to get out fast.

Arn

well i am commited to learning how to "drift" my auto, if i ever get it down right i will get a video of it and post it on a new post. if im lucky ill go back to that parkinglot after i get my new tires. Thanks for all the advice, plus for all and happy Fiero-ing

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'86 Fiero GT

www.KylesFiero.tk
www.XoticRydz.tk

quote Originally posted by 2birds: The last one cost me a rocker panel, quarter panel, door skin, and a sail panel (thank you, mailbox).

My last one cost me the car! (thanks to the light pole) I was drifting my car and lost control, I ended up hitting a light pole at about 60MPH. Lets just say that the pole won the fight. My quarter panel, whole door, rear querter panel, rocker panel, subframe, dash, windshield, and just about everything else on the passenger side is dead. But both of us in the car walked away with only minor injuries. (Thank you light pole). I am planning on rebuilding my fiero soon and entering some drifting contests this summer. Kee
Keep it slideways!!!

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: They are intended to get you there quickest, not like Ace Ventura parking ( God, I love those scenes)

If you liked that then you'll remember this.... "Liiiiike a glllllove"

I spun out in my fiero once in the rain, hit a guard rail.... not cool is all I have to say. Luckily there was very little damage. It was a cracked bumper cover, cracked tail light lens, and a little deformation of the rear notchie clip. It all got fixed, but now I drive very slow in the rain. I found it very difficult to recover from the spin. I managed to steer out of the median and oncoming traffic, but hit the damn guard rail instead. I think when it rains in the summer I will practice in a parking lot.

There's nothing quite LIKE a fiero on ice... What I'VE noticed is I can get the rear end to come around fairly easily by hi revs in a low gear (4 speed Muncie V6) or by just leaving it in first and smashin' the gas to the floor with the steering wheel slightly turned. Usually I can correct it thru turning the steering wheel into the skid (quickly) and or backing off the gas.

The NEATEST thing I've noticed is when it DOES slide, it tends to slide all four wheels fairly evenly. When it does THAT, if I have enough power left (don't try this at 80 mph or so) I can get on the gas and get the back wheels to push it back the way that I want. REALLY COOL!!!!

I DID have it come around on me once though. I was driving on one of my favorite "Fiero Roads" (Windy twisty low traffic country roads of Indiana and South Western Ohio) and was going a little too fast on dry pavement when I got to an S turn where the road was angled the wrong way (Sort of the reverse of Indy Banking) and it came all the way around. Of course I had a shitty suspension, worn out struts and tires with 30k on them at the time.

Now, I've got 205/60-15's and new struts and all the worn stuff in the suspension fixed. Makes a world of difference. I've also got a front sway bar I want to put on the back so I'll report back after that with anything new.

Rob

86 SE V6 4 Speed
273,000+ Miles

quote Originally posted by Rob Ernst:I DID have it come around on me once though. I was driving on one of my favorite "Fiero Roads" (Windy twisty low traffic country roads of Indiana and South Western Ohio) and was going a little too fast on dry pavement when I got to an S turn where the road was angled the wrong way (Sort of the reverse of Indy Banking) and it came all the way around. Of course I had a shitty suspension, worn out struts and tires with 30k on them at the time. Rob 86 SE V6 4 Speed 273,000+ Miles

That's called an "off camber curve", and they are the pavement equivalent of Satan. Try some on a motorcycle some time.

Just to re-fresh...I'm not a big advocate of *trying* to drift a Fiero (or any other car for that matter) on public roads, but I'm a HUGE advocate of people knowing how to control their car well enough to control/recover from a slide. The best way of avoiding an accident is by not being there; the SECOND best way to avoid one is knowing what to do to avoid it, rather than panicking (panicing?) and making things worse. I see so many accidents that could be avoided if people just did some evasive maneuvers instead of locking up their brakes...which is almost NEVER the right choice...

Take care all...
Jeremy B.

The other day I was driving my 88 and gunned the gas on a snow covered street. it started to fishtail and only seemed to get worse but I never once swapped ends and regained it after about it swerved left to right about 5 times. Each time I over corrected a little to much and nearly dumped it into a ditch on the side of that street. However i kept it in my lane and didnt totaly loose control of it. Drifting can be done in the Fiero with lots of pratice its a finer line that you tread with the Fiero.

im doing all of this so that i will know what to do if it whips around on my or if i can do it to avoid one of those damn suvs from hitting me. does anyone know if its any harder in an auto?

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'86 Fiero GT

www.KylesFiero.tk
www.XoticRydz.tk

I love to drift, I drift almost EVERY car I can, including a Suzuki Rodeo. Drifting is harder in mid engine cars becaus the wieght in is the back. Once it goes it REALLY wants to go. The secret is to keep your foot on the gas. DO NOT under and circumstance hit the brake. hitting the brake will Only lock the Front tire giving the car a pivot point resulting in spin out. Allow the front tires to move, keep the back tires spinning, this give it a little push to go in the direction you want it to. Too much spin will not help you though so practice and learn your cars limits. Practiceing this will cause your car to move in directions you were not expecting, so make sure you are in a WIDE i do mean W I D E open space. Good luck on this.

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Beware, somewhere there lyes an AMBUSH

In my experience, I've found the fiero will mostly become unstable in a turn if you don't have the alignment just right.

Mine's alignment was a little off, and it was squirley like a Z06 during fast maneuvers. With the alignment on, I have slid it through 15mph 90 degree corners at about 55-60mph just be staying on the gas. Maybe barely lifting off a little to tuck in the front.