Has anyone used that Eastwood Company Rust Encapsulator?

I've been a longtime fan of POR-15. Used it on a few cars and it's held up pretty well, but prep has always been a pain, and costly. Eastwood company has an article on their website comparing POR-15 to Rust encapsulator and losing the battle. Seems the POR had a few "issues" wit rust creep and growth. It sounds like the guy writing the article failed to prep the POR-15 side properly. He possibly used a solvent to clean the surface,and POR-15 always says prepping the metal with a solvent does not promote proper adhesion of the product. But, still, that Rust Encapsulator sounds like it may be pretty decent, and a bit more cost effective.
Has anyone used it? Longterm thoughts?

How does this stuff compare?

http://www.itkillsrust.com/

i used rust bullet on my truck and will be using it on my fiero. it seems pretty tough but i don't have a long term test or anything to see if it holds up. they do say not to paint over paint but i did and it still seemed just as good as the bare metal. this probably doesn't help you but maybe you want to check it out.

Awe Great..... Now another option.. LOL.

Just wonder which has the best endurance over time and salt.

I'm kinda biased, but everyone that has tried RUst Bullet has came back for more. I have had nobody email be and said it wasn't as good as product "B" as long as it was applied correctly. We are willing to test against *any* other product, if they are willing to pay the costs if they loose. In 3 years nobody has taken us up on the offer. We have been sued two times due to our test results being posted. Oh well. Can't take a beating, just sue them till they remove the results.. Didn't work.

Good luck !

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Dave
http://www.itkillsrust.com

so what is your opinion on painting over paint with rust bullet? just curious because stripping my cradle isn't really an option but i can clean it real well and it has a good amount of rust that needs to be stopped.

Rust Bullet works very well as a topcoat. You'll get the best effects with any Rust Prevention product is it has contact with the metal. But, to work as a topcoat it needs to be able to adhire to the present surface, be it paint, primier, or bare metal. We've tested Rust Bullet on various applications with good results and no special prep was needed. We've had it used on various surfaces from fiberglass, metal, concrete, plastic, and more. At present time it's being used on several Navy research ships as a base and a topcoat with excellent results even with the salt and sea water.

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Dave
Rust Bullet

thanks. i bought a gallon of it and i need to use it up.

On the rustbullet site, it says:
Scientifically tested against leading rust control products with before and after photos.

Where would those pics be? Hows does it compare to Eastwood's product? Also, does it protect well against rust creep?

quote Originally posted by smartaxel: On the rustbullet site, it says: Scientifically tested against leading rust control products with before and after photos. Where would those pics be? Hows does it compare to Eastwood's product? Also, does it protect well against rust creep?

If you read a little more you will see the following also

==
To separate Rust Bullet® from these 319 companies, we decided to test, scientifically, against the six main ingredients that these rust/corrosion control products contain, using the market leaders, and not the specific brands or names that are subject to manipulation
==

So, out of the 319 Rust Protection product on the market we picked the six main ingredients they all used. Think about it. there can't in reality be 319 ways to stop rust. Lots of products use the exact same main ingredients just under a differant name. We picked the top products on the market and tested against those. Since we scientifically tested against these main ingredients that are used in virtually all rust/corrosion control products, we have in effect, scientifically tested against all brands.

The testing results can be seen here :
http://www.itkillsrust.com/500test.php

Each of the tests that were performed are shown here with images and results:
http://www.itkillsrust.com/test1.php

If what you mean by "rust creep" is how well the product keeps rust from crawling under the paint when an area starts to rust. The 500 hour tests give this as one of the results and show microscopic images of each. The brand names tested by National Testing Standards, Inc are as follows.

1.RUST-OLEUM® Rusty Metal Primer topcoated with Rust-Oleum Gloss Enamel
2.RUST BULLET® Automotive No topcoat
3.RUST-OLEUM® Rust Reformer top-coated with Rust-Oleum Gloss Enamel
4.Zinc-Chromate Primer topcoated with Zynolyte Urethane Spray Paint
5.RUST-OLEUM® Cold Galvanizing Compound
6.Wasser® Brand System (Urethane)
7.Naval Jelly® Rust Neutralizer topcoated with Napa Ruf-Nek Heavy Duty Spray Paint
8.POR-15® System topcoated with NAPA Ruf-Nek Heavy Duty Spray Paint
9.Hammerite® Rust Cap™

We've also have a standing challange for *any* brand not tested to take the same tests and prove Rust Bullet is not better. So far, only POR-15 agreed to the challange several months ago, and then followed up recently with a "cease and desist" order for us to remove " all referances" to POR-15 from our website. Nice try, but it ain't gonna happen This was after the Vice-Pres of operations of POR-15, Inc bought a can of Rust Bullet under his own name from the website.

Now. I don't want this to turn into a sales pitch. I'll be glad to answer any question anyone has but I don't wanna be a " sales rep" in here. I do work on cars also as a hobby, I have several classic Camaros I restore, and i cruise Auto Forums looking for ideas..

Cheers !

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Dave
Rust Bullet

Dave,

Don't know know how I missed the sention entitled "Lab Tests", I probably should have mooked down the list, but thanks for the direct links. The tests are actually pretty impressive.

I know you said no special prep was necessary, but is there a preferred cleaner/degreaser? With POR, if you use a solvent beforehand, it tends to weaken the bond between the POR and the paint, so they don't suggest any solvent based cleaners. Anything to be aware of with your product?

I may try it on my current project.

I really hate this forum doesn't send email on replies I don't know if I need to drop back in.. BUT ANYWAY...

quote Originally posted by smartaxel: Don't know know how I missed the sention entitled "Lab Tests", I probably should have mooked down the list, but thanks for the direct links. The tests are actually pretty impressive.

I agree I do have a lot of info on the website. I had it in steps off several pages but it was even harder to find info I wanted found. So I don't blame anyone for missing stuff, so I understand, belive me.

quote I know you said no special prep was necessary, but is there a preferred cleaner/degreaser? With POR, if you use a solvent beforehand, it tends to weaken the bond between the POR and the paint, so they don't suggest any solvent based cleaners. Anything to be aware of with your product? I may try it on my current project.

Any *water* based cleaner will give great results. Solvent based cleaners will not leave a clean surface as you may think. It leaves a film. What happens with POR-15 is the solvent releases fumes even after dry. These fumes interact with the POR-15 and returns POR-15 back to it's pre-cured state and keep it from drying. The only prep Rust Bullet requires is no oils or dirt and a clean surface. One thing I found is that great all around cleaner " Simple Green" works great. It removes any oils and dirt and doen't leave any film to react with it. It should also be noted POR-15 reacts very well with it also.

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Dave
Rust Bullet

Hey Dave,

I agree that POR-15 isn't all it's cracked up to be. My two big beefs with it are the toxins and the cost. Did I mis-read the MSDS when I read that Rust Bullet contains diisocyanites? What's the difference between isocyanites and diisocyanites as far as being harmful chemicals?

How does RB compare to Zero Rust?

quote Originally posted by Stinkin_V8: Did I mis-read the MSDS when I read that Rust Bullet contains diisocyanites? What's the difference between isocyanites and diisocyanites as far as being harmful chemicals?

Sorry Stinkin_V8, but I'm not chemist This would be a question for the people who formulated it. I'd be happy to forward specific questions to them if you like, but for me to speculate would not be a good. I do know that yes the fumes are harmful and Rust Bullet needs to be applied in a well ventilated area. Once dry there is no problem. But during it's curing time the fumes need to be taken care of.

quote How does RB compare to Zero Rust?

[/QUOTE]

See one of my other replies about other products tested. We can't test them all, so we tested the top brands. I think I discussed this already above.

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Dave
Rust Bullet

quote Originally posted by Rust Bullet: See one of my other replies about other products tested. We can't test them all, so we tested the top brands. I think I discussed this already above.

Thanks for your response, Dave.

I don't know if I would call Rust-oleum a top brand. A top selling brand with good marketing behind it, sure. It sounds to me that your product is more in the league of Zero Rust and POR-15, definately better than Rust-oleum. But that's just my layman's opinion.

quote Originally posted by Stinkin_V8: Thanks for your response, Dave. I don't know if I would call Rust-oleum a top brand. A top selling brand with good marketing behind it, sure. It sounds to me that your product is more in the league of Zero Rust and POR-15, definately better than Rust-oleum. But that's just my layman's opinion.

Not sure I would call it a "top brand" either, but it's formula and the active agents they use were part of the test we wanted to provide results for. As you can imagine these types of tests are not cheap. By testing against the various Rust-oleum products we in essance tested any product that used the same active ingredents so we tested against more then just Rust-Oleum, and there are a lot out there that use the same agents they use. The same with POR-15, they use a urathaine base, and not many so, this is why POR-15 for a long while has been in a class of their own, so they had to be in the test, Wasser also uses a specific type of base agent and is one of the leading brands so they were added to the tests. None of the subjects used the same base agent so we get a lot of results over various agents.

When the panels were submitted to National Testing Standards, Inc. they were not told what panel was what product. Each panel was just a number to them. They were instructed to use the same test required for the Navy and on some tests to exceed the test if it was seen more results could be shown from it. Now, some came back and said these these were accelerated tests and not real world so they had reservations. Ok, so off to Atlas Weathering Services Group and also Q-Labs Weathering Research Center went the same panels. here they were put through real world tests and the exact same results were seen.

Every product on the market states they are " the best" on the market but nobody shows the testing and results to prove it. We do and offer any other products the chance to take the same tests against us. Nobody has taken us up on the challange. They have treatened legal actions, filed cease and desist orders, and every other type of legal threat to get the results off the website. But we felt if we were going to make a claim we'd back it up and not just use it as a marketing hype.

For even more credit we asked people from the real world to test it in their shops and give us their views. Two of the best people in the Automotive world Carl Brunson who restored Carroll Shelby's Cobra and Jim Clark editor of so many Mags I lost count. Both gave it a thumbs up. Even more tests are stil being done and those results will be posted as they finish, good or bad.

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Dave
Rust Bullet

Some older "rust mort" products used, I believe, phosphoric acid to neutralize iron oxide 'rust'. The chemical reaction would turn it black in color. After rinsing the surface could be painted. East wood has a product like this also. I have and still use a product that Eastwood used to sell called Corroless. I was always happy with this product, with the exception that it is brown in color and then requires a black topcoat as most rusty things under the car are/were black. Looking at the label on their new "Rust Encapsulator' it seems to be the same as 'Corroless' with the exception of the name. I wonder if they've just changed the name and the color to compete with POR-15. If so, I expect it should be a good product. The nice thing about these products is that they are also available in spray cans.

I also work for one of the oldest high temp anti corrosion companies. We make industrial, automotive and aerospace products but haven't been in the 'consumer market' for 20 years. Most of our products contain chrome, which is one of nature's best rust preventers. It does however have some down sides and the liabilty issues generally preclude 'home' use.

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Notchbacks RULE

"It's cool to have a car you just have to look back at."

[This message has been edited by Fierobruiser (edited 02-07-2004).]

Fierobruiser, I have a question for you regarding the black oxide coating that many OEM fasteners have. Is that coating something that can be duplicated outside of an industrial environment? When I overhaul my motors I wirebrush all the carbon and rust off, but that leaves the bolts much more likely to rust. I've been painting the exposed ones to reduce the rust, but would rather replicate the OEM black oxide finish as it seems to hold up better. Do you know how I would go about achieving an OEM level of finish?

JazzMan

I am deep into cleaning up my Fiero space frame. I have a couple of rusty spots to fix, and I was planning to coat the entire thing in POR15 after I was finished. In order to get inside of some of the frame areas, spray application is a must for some areas. Following this thread, and reading over the Rust Bullet info on their website, it also is looking like a good possibility for future rust prevention. I only have the "sample pack" of POR15 right now, and am not dead set that I must use it. The cost of the Rust Bullet is looking good to me!

I seen on the Rust Bullet website, that it could be applied with an airless sprayer. I am now thinking about using the Rust Bullet, and spraying it with my Wagner airless sprayer. Any suggestions, drawbacks, or possible clean-up concerns when all is done, if applied using this method? I suspect that POR15 could also be applied with this method.

quote Originally posted by KidO: I seen on the Rust Bullet website, that it could be applied with an airless sprayer. I am now thinking about using the Rust Bullet, and spraying it with my Wagner airless sprayer. Any suggestions, drawbacks, or possible clean-up concerns when all is done, if applied using this method? I suspect that POR15 could also be applied with this method.

Rust Bullet can be used as you are asking. What you have to be careful of, as with any products, like this you have to make sure you keep the gun CLEAN and do it as soon as your done. Letting it sit will allow it to dry while in the gun and then it's a nice paper weight. Take paint tinner after your done. Fill the gun and spray it back through the gun as you vary the nossle opening to make sure it reaches all the areas and get nice and clear before calling it clean. Also only spray in a open well vented area and don't lock yourself up in a closed area with the fumes.

One thing you might think about for those "way down deep" areas you can't get to, is to use a common water bottle sprayer. You can normally set the nozzle to shoot in a stream and reach areas down inside you didn't think of. And they are cheap too

Good Luck !

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Fierobruiser, I have a question for you regarding the black oxide coating that many OEM fasteners have. Is that coating something that can be duplicated outside of an industrial environment? When I overhaul my motors I wirebrush all the carbon and rust off, but that leaves the bolts much more likely to rust. I've been painting the exposed ones to reduce the rust, but would rather replicate the OEM black oxide finish as it seems to hold up better. Do you know how I would go about achieving an OEM level of finish? JazzMan

Jazz, my company doesn't do fasteners, although we sell coatings to people who do. Fasteners are a little tricky in that many times they are manufactured slighty 'undersize' to allow for the thickness of the coatings that are appilied. Otherwise they would obviously be too.big. to properly screw into wherever they are supposed to. Many times the coatings are applied in bulk using a 'dip-spin' process whereby they are dipped in baskets and then spun to remove the excess coating. Check Eastwood's site. They carry a good assortment of products that reproduce OEM finsihes for restoration projects. Bruiser

edited for spelling

[This message has been edited by Fierobruiser (edited 02-08-2004).]