I'm going start on installing new balljoints(upper/lower), poly bushings, and tie-rods(inner/outer). Does anybody have a website where there are step-by-step instructions and photos on this process. It would be great helpful to me. I can read instructions but i'm a visual person i need to see it while reading about it.

thanks,
toms...

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quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: I'm going start on installing new balljoints(upper/lower), poly bushings, and tie-rods(inner/outer). Does anybody have a website where there are step-by-step instructions and photos on this process. It would be great helpful to me. I can read instructions but i'm a visual person i need to see it while reading about it. thanks, toms...

Tom email me at zoom88@diginostics.com I will help you with what ever I can !!!

Well, i started today on my rebuild. it's going very, very slowly. So far i've gotten both calipers off (on the driver's side one of the pads is completely gone), unbolted the swaybar but can't seem to wiggle it out, driver's shock is out, the passenger side is being diffcult the top nut won't come off when i turn it the shaft also turns (the nut is at the very top). i was loosing the upper control bolt and i happen to snap one side completely off, which is okay cause i have new ones to put on. i guess tomorrow i will go to autozone and rent a spring compressor and pickle fork.

toms...

You do do need a spring compressor for the front spring, only you need that for the rear springs. The front springs you just use a jack to compress and lower the front springs out of the way.
BTW you will need 21 & 22mm wrenches for the rear strut nut.
Good luck.

When I removed my shocks, I had to split the nut on the right front one. Not a big deal if you're replacing them, anyway.
Also, I put a chain through my front springs when I removed them. It's very probably not necessary. I've never had one to want to "get wild" but I'd rather take a minute to do it, just in case.

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Raydar
88 3.4 coupe.

Coming soon...
88 Formula, presently under the knife.

Tom, its not that difficult, just time consuming. I'm in the middle of it now (on my white Formula too) and I just got the steering rack out last night. I removed it because I'm doing Rodneys tie rods (inner and outer)and bushing. Things go so much easier with it out of the car. I'm also sandblasting all 4 control arms and front sway bar so they will get new paint soon.

One question: I broke 2 of the bolts holding the rack to the car and I'm not sure what my best option would be. They are rusted BIG TIME so I'm not sure getting them out will be easy so I might have to resort to drilling. If so, would reaming the holes out and using a new bolt, washer and nut be acceptable? Therefore the new nut/washer would sit on the old welded nut. Any recommendations?

Solo, I do do need a spring compressor or do not need one? I'm only doing the front right now. the rear probably next summer.

Raydar, not replacing the shocks they had been replaced by the previous owner with kyb's.

Do i need a pickle fork to seperate the tie-rod ends if i'm replacing them or can i just use BFH.
How do i get the ball joints out easly. the top ones are riveted i can grind those down or use my air hammer to pop them off. do the bottom ones have to be press out or what.

euno, your going have to tell me how your doing on the steering rack cause i will be doing that too. i'm planning on doing mine in the car.

I want to get my control arms sandblasted and painted also. what kind of paint are you going to use.

Solo, where can i get my parts sandblasted in this area.

thanks guys,
toms...

quote Originally posted by Solo2: You do do need a spring compressor for the front spring, only you need that for the rear springs. The front springs you just use a jack to compress and lower the front springs out of the way. BTW you will need 21 & 22mm wrenches for the rear strut nut. Good luck.

Tom, You truely need to invest in the '88 Pontiac Fiero Service manual ior come by and spend some time with me in Carrollton.

Page 3C7 & 3C8 Front Suspension in the service manual.
Fron Spring Removal
1. Raise car on a hoist and support lower control arm with JACK.
2.Remove tire assembly.
3. Remove shock absober.
4. Remove stabilier bar from lower control arm.
5. Install chain through the springs as a safety facter.
6. Remove Lower control arm pivot bolts.
7. Slowly lower the jack and remove the safety chain when spring is no longer under load.
8. Remove spring and spring insulator.
See figure 9.
Use the revrse procedure to install spring back on car. You will use the jack to compress the spring.
Torque to 37 lb. ft
As far as cleaning the suspension parts I ujust used a grinder and a wire bush. I did not sand blast the parts. However glass blasting is best and not the sand.

quote Originally posted by Solo2: ...As far as cleaning the suspension parts I ujust used a grinder and a wire bush. I did not sand blast the parts. However glass blasting is best and not the sand.

Solo is 110% correct about NOT sandblasting suspension parts! Glass bead blasting is the only way to go especially if you intend to repaint! Just remember; you should paint as soon as possible after bead blasting or the parts WILL rust quickly! Of course, should you decide to have the parts powder-coated, it is well worth the small extra cost... and they strip the parts for you!

Good luck and don't forget to take some pics if possible. The front suspension is one my next larger projects.

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Deezlfitr
"Life is just a bowl of cherries... ya just gotta watch out for the pits!"

1986 GT/Auto (my first)

[This message has been edited by Deezlfitr (edited 12-20-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: Solo, I do do need a spring compressor or do not need one? I'm only doing the front right now. the rear probably next summer. Raydar, not replacing the shocks they had been replaced by the previous owner with kyb's. Do i need a pickle fork to seperate the tie-rod ends if i'm replacing them or can i just use BFH.

My opinion... Don't worry with the spring compressors. You really don't need them. Just use that chain.

As for getting the nut off the shock, On the stock shocks there are flats on the end of the shaft, where you can grab with vicegrips or a crescent wrench while you turn the nut. If it's rusted, it may help to use PB Blaster or Liquid Wrench. If it just won't turn, I'd use a nut splitter.

I wouldn't use a pickle fork or a BFH to separate the tierod ends.
Use a pittman arm puller. Easiest thing I've ever used, and it doesn't screw up the grease cups, like a pickle fork will. If you have air tools, you can pop the rod ends out in about six seconds.

If you don't have one, get Rodney's ball joint removal tool. It's used to pop the balljoint studs out of the knuckle, NOT to press the balljoints out of the arms.

Guys I have sand blasted lots of car parts with great results, why do you say NOT to sand blast? I will agree that glass is better but not by much. Now, I will say NOT to blast the hubs because the sand can get into the bearings.

Tom, I will be doing a test of a primer and paint a friend recommened and then I will let you know if it sticks good enough for this sort of work.

John

I'm in the middle of my 88 suspension refresh and I have similar questions... I'm still a little unclear how to install new ball joints.

The service manual of course refers to a special "J-xxxx" tool. The Chiltons says you should take the whole A-arm to a shop and have them pressed in.

I'm wondering what the average forum member does. If I could find a reasonable priced ball joint press I'd buy it. Any suggestions?

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 12-20-2003).]

Thanks eunospeed, i'll be waiting for your results.

well today was a long day didn't get everything i want acomplish but it was better than yesterday. went to autozone to get me a spring compressor, ball joint remover/installer, and tie-rod seperator. the spring compressor didn't work, i couldn't get it to fit so i use the chain method and that work great. so right now i have the driver side completely off (doing one side at a time).

my question is what's another way to get the bushing out without FIRE?
i tried drilling a bunch of little hole into the bushing then tried
using a C-clamp and pressing it out but no luck.

also, how do i get the upper control arm bolt out?

last question tonight should i reuse the lower control arms bolt or
replace them. i would like to replace them but where do i get them.

maybe another trip to autozone to see if they have something to do the job. wish i would have bought me a shop press.

edit: i forgot to add how do i get the swaybar out. i tried sliding it out
both sides but no luck. it keep hitting the radiator hoses please don't tell
me that i have to remove them.

thanks,
toms...

[This message has been edited by Tom Slick (edited 12-20-2003).]

my question is what's another way to get the bushing out without FIRE?
i tried drilling a bunch of little hole into the bushing then tried
using a C-clamp and pressing it out but no luck.

also, how do i get the upper control arm bolt out?

last question tonight should i reuse the lower control arms bolt or
replace them. i would like to replace them but where do i get them.

maybe another trip to autozone to see if they have something to do the job. wish i would have bought me a shop press.

edit: i forgot to add how do i get the swaybar out. i tried sliding it out
both sides but no luck. it keep hitting the radiator hoses please don't tell
me that i have to remove them.

Tom, to get the bushings out I used a combination of propane torch, drilling (small bit) and digging with a mid size screw driver. Stick with it they will come out.

Concerning the upper CA bolt, if your talking about the one that is threaded at both ends and holds the CA to the car then it cannot be removed with out cutting it inhalf and then it must be replaced. If its still sound then DON'T remove it, just work around it.

I'm not sure where to get the lower CA bolts, I would like to replace mine also. Make sure you use grade 8's and if you do find them let me know.

OK, the sway bar can be a pain but with a little work it will come out the passenger side. You might have to press lightly on one of the hoses but trust me I did get mine out just the other day.

John

John,
thanks for the info. i was wanting a way without using a torch cause I don't have one.

yes the upper CA bolt that's threaded on both ends. i have new ones to put in
plus i busted the passenger one so might as well replace them.

i see if i can find lower CA bolts.

i guess if off to home depot tomorrow for a propane torch.

toms...

quote Originally posted by eunospeed: Tom, to get the bushings out I used a combination of propane torch, drilling (small bit) and digging with a mid size screw driver. Stick with it they will come out. Concerning the upper CA bolt, if your talking about the one that is threaded at both ends and holds the CA to the car then it cannot be removed with out cutting it inhalf and then it must be replaced. If its still sound then DON'T remove it, just work around it. I'm not sure where to get the lower CA bolts, I would like to replace mine also. Make sure you use grade 8's and if you do find them let me know. John

Drilling many holes and pressing them out is the only correct way. A c-clamp wll press them out not striaght with damages it.
As far as the upper
shaft control arm bolt and the lower control arm belt both can be reused just clean them up with a wire bush and a good tap , paint and then re-use. Providing that the threads are in good shape. The tap will tell you that.
The sway bar does come out with eaze. Reove both from control arm assemblies and out she comes in under two minutes. BTW the GT and formula are the same the bar is 28mm in OD.

The upper double side control arm bolt comes out by pressing it out. It helps as you stated to have access to a shop hyd press.

quote Originally posted by eunospeed: One question: I broke 2 of the bolts holding the rack to the car and I'm not sure what my best option would be. They are rusted BIG TIME so I'm not sure getting them out will be easy so I might have to resort to drilling. If so, would reaming the holes out and using a new bolt, washer and nut be acceptable? Therefore the new nut/washer would sit on the old welded nut. Any recommendations?

John,
First, I'd try several days of repeated soaking with Pblaster. Then center punch each broken bolt, and use the correct size drill to pilot a square-type easy-out. Don't try the swirly-threaded looking type, the squares get a much better bite. If the broken off bolt heads are flat, fine, if not then file 'em flat so you can center punch. Center punch so your pilot drill goes where you want it.

Second, if you give up on normal easy-out methods and can get oxy/acty heat on the culprits, your easy -out will perform amazingly. Maybe you have a friend with a small HVAC oxy/acty set. Just get the sucker red or orange, stick the easy-out in, and remove. It works fine on broken exhaust manifold studs.

Third. Those bolts look big enough to drill & tap out to the next biggest size if you are carefull, and all else has failed.

i went to autozone and rented a ball joint remover/installer. i did remove a ball joint but i haven't use it to install yet. i let you know how well it works.

toms...

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I'm in the middle of my 88 suspension refresh and I have similar questions... I'm still a little unclear how to install new ball joints. The service manual of course refers to a special "J-xxxx" tool. The Chiltons says you should take the whole A-arm to a shop and have them pressed in. I'm wondering what the average forum member does. If I could find a reasonable priced ball joint press I'd buy it. Any suggestions?

Tom,
When you remove that sway bar, put a twist tie on one side or the other. I put mine in the wrong way when I reinstalled it, and had to take it out and do it over. You will learn to use new words that way, however!

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: i went to autozone and rented a ball joint remover/installer. i did remove a ball joint but i haven't use it to install yet. i let you know how well it works. toms...

Thanks Tom! "+" for you

Damn it, too late i already took it out. let's keep my fingers cross and hope it goes in right the first time. probably won't happen, if it can go
wrong it will with me.

toms...

quote Originally posted by Dave Mathis: Tom, When you remove that sway bar, put a twist tie on one side or the other. I put mine in the wrong way when I reinstalled it, and had to take it out and do it over. You will learn to use new words that way, however!

Alright today, i got the bushings out i had to use FIRE!!!
clean them up and painted them.

got the swaybar out and painted.

I had to order some new rotors won't be in until Friday.
i want to clean the knuckle and paint it.
So how do i take off my old rotors?

edit: I forgot i had to cut the control arm bolt to remove it from
the control arm. i hope the new one goes in easier. so how do I
install the new CA bolt in the CA?

thanks,
toms...

[This message has been edited by Tom Slick (edited 12-21-2003).]

Guys, can I paint the inside of the bushing shell? By the shell I mean the metal shell that the new bushing is pressed into on the control arm. I was reading about how the bushing should never rotate against the shell so it should be ok to do it. Just trying to prevent rust and make the job a little easier. Advice......

quote Originally posted by eunospeed: Guys, can I paint the inside of the bushing shell? By the shell I mean the metal shell that the new bushing is pressed into on the control arm. I was reading about how the bushing should never rotate against the shell so it should be ok to do it. Just trying to prevent rust and make the job a little easier. Advice......

I'm not sure that is a good question. i'm painting my A-arms but i did not
paint the inside just in case.

toms...

quote Originally posted by eunospeed: Guys, can I paint the inside of the bushing shell? By the shell I mean the metal shell that the new bushing is pressed into on the control arm. I was reading about how the bushing should never rotate against the shell so it should be ok to do it. Just trying to prevent rust and make the job a little easier. Advice......

I'd leave it bare and then use lots of silicone grease.

okay, two things have got me stump.
1. the upper control arm shaft how does it get installed? machine shop?
2. how do i take of the stinking rotors? they must be rusted on pretty
good. i used pb and a rubber mallet and still not coming off.

thanks,
toms...

Guy in the local car club put a spring through his arm not using a compressor, so be careful. Local automotive type stores will loan you a spring compressor for free btw.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: My opinion... Don't worry with the spring compressors. You really don't need them. Just use that chain.

Front springs don't need a compressor, just use your floor jack to hold up the bottom CA until the knucle is free, then slowly lower the jack. You might need a big screw driver to work the spring out.

Tom, concerning the upper CA bolts, I don't know what to tell you, I'm able to reuse my stock ones.
As far as brake rotors being stuck to the hub, I would use heat (propane torch) and maybe PB Blaster. If the rotor, knuckle and hub are off the car I would clamp the knuckle into a big vice and wack the back side of the rotor with rubber mallet.

Okay, i got the rotors off with a lot of pb and rubber mallet. Friday
my new rotors come in.

i took off the passenger side suspension. was try to remove the lower
ball joint it wouldn't move, got to look at it and it had three .5 inch weld marks holding the ball joint in. got the old dremel and
grind them down until i could pop the sucker out.

tomorrow i will burn out the bushing, clean the a-arms and get them ready to paint.

still don't know how the CA bolt is going to be installed in the a-arm any susgestion. Machine shop to have them press in? somebody has
had to replace the CA bolt?

i'm planning on painting my calipers, is it possible to take the caliper apart and paint it seperate. i don't want to undo the hose,
it looks like the part i want to paint will unbolt from the caliper.

toms...

The calipers do split, so you can take the bridge off (the part visible through the wheel) and paint it.

That's actually how I change my brake pads, since it's easier than removing the spring pins or pulling the caliper.

thanks, that's exactly what i wanted needed to know. when i reinstalled them what do i torque the bolts back to. I guess I need to know that for all the bolts on the front suspension.

toms...

quote Originally posted by Formula88: The calipers do split, so you can take the bridge off (the part visible through the wheel) and paint it. That's actually how I change my brake pads, since it's easier than removing the spring pins or pulling the caliper.

Wow Formula88, that's interesting that you remove the bridge rather than remove the pins.... I've been wondering why that wouldn't be fully acceptable. Question, as you back out the bridge bolts do the pins stay with the piston side of the caliper?

Okay, the only thing that's holding me back now is the shaft that
goes through the A-arm. How does that get installed. it's like fitting
a square peg in a round hole.

thanks,
toms...

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: Okay, the only thing that's holding me back now is the shaft that goes through the A-arm. How does that get installed. it's like fitting a square peg in a round hole. thanks, toms...

Tom,

Do you have replacment bolts yet? If they are the ones from the Fiero Store they look smaller in dia than the factory ones. If this is the case then they might slide right into position inplace the old bolts. So, the only way to remove the old bolts is to cut them or remove the outer bushing shell that are mounted into the upper CA. BUT, I have never had a need to do this so I'm only taking an educated guess.

Good luck and let us know what you end up doing.

John

John,

they look smaller but not small enough to slide right on through.
i don't know if the sleeves need to come out, if they do then
how to take them out and reinstalled them. seem like if you remove
the sleeves that you would have to weld them back. i wish i would
have know this first then i would have cut them out. i thought about
pressing them through the sleeve but it would stretch it out and
probably the bushing would not stay in. i hope i'm not SOL.

toms...

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: John, they look smaller but not small enough to slide right on through. i don't know if the sleeves need to come out, if they do then how to take them out and reinstalled them. seem like if you remove the sleeves that you would have to weld them back. i wish i would have know this first then i would have cut them out. i thought about pressing them through the sleeve but it would stretch it out and probably the bushing would not stay in. i hope i'm not SOL. toms...

If the new ones won't slide inside the shell then the shells will have to be removed. BUT, I'm, like you this seems to be kinda scary.... if you screw something up then you could be SOL. I wouldn't do anytyhing until someone who has done this chimes in.

Didn't I read that your factory ones were bent? That's hard to believe unless the car was wrecked. Too bad you can't just reuse them.

Hey you might be able to buy a used set of uppers with no damage if it makes you feel any better.

Good luck,
John

No my factory ones were good except that i broke off one ends when i was
trying to remove it. so i figured that i would go ahead and cut them out.
i kind of wish i didn't have done that.

i wonder how much two a-arms would cost.

toms...

quote Originally posted by eunospeed: Didn't I read that your factory ones were bent? That's hard to believe unless the car was wrecked. Too bad you can't just reuse them. Hey you might be able to buy a used set of uppers with no damage if it makes you feel any better. Good luck, John

quote Originally posted by Tom Slick: well this thing just keeps snowballing. today i decide to replace the steering rack bushing. i got the old one out but i couldn't decide how the new one went in. i got two screws and two nails, don't have a clue what to do with them. i decided to take off the driver side inner tie rod but it doesn't look like it's screw on. the reason i say this is that the flat spot on the rack and the back end of inner tie rod has a flat spot that matches. so it doesn't look like can unscrew. will this ever end... toms...

Tom, You and I should start our own forum on rebuilding the front suspension on a white Formula!

OK, here goes.... First the steering rack bushing goes in on the passenger side, making sure the thick end points toward the inside of the rack. It will not go all the way in... but will stick out maybe 1/8". Mine was a pain to get in because there was a rough spot on the rack shaft that caused me to have to tap it in. If you must do the same use a BIG socket and be careful not to bang-up the threaded end of the rack shaft. The two screws and nails are only half right... the nails are actually rivots. Rodney gives you both so you can decide what meathod you perfer to hold in the new bushing. The rivots are easier but I'm planning on using two set screws.

Second, the flat spot on the inner tie-rod is actually where it was "hammered" into place from the factory. This is a meathod used to keep the tie-rod from working its way loose. So, don't worry about putting a pipe wrench on the thick portion of the tie-rod and removing it. Once it starts to move it will come right off. If you have Rodneys new inner TR's then I think they have set screws to hold them into place so there will no need for "hammering" them back into place.

Your point about never ending is so true... I broke one of the bolts holding the steering rack and then while trying to drill it out I broke off a small drill pit into the bolt! Bottom line is I have spent hours trying to get the thing out with no luck. But one way of another the thing has to come out so I can finish this project.

John