I had dreams and plans of making a v8 fiero for over a year now, finally got 86 GT and workin on the engine but the more I hear about how the fiero trannies dont hold up, and I dont exactly drive like a grandma I think I'm just digging myself into a hole, I dont really feel like changing transmissions every few months just because I drive halfway rough, not all the time just once in a while, its to bad DKOV isnt done with his tranny yet (even though its gonna cost $1800 yikes) Is there any other tranny's out there that will fit without alot of modification and dont cost more than the car itself? and will also handle more power than a stock fiero tranny?, I heard about VW's tranny but dont know much about it, anybody got any insight for me?

-Chris

If your afraid of blowing transmission's, don't put in a small block with that kinda power. Its up to you, you can build a 350 with 200 hp, or 700 hp, it all depends on what you make of it. 350 hp and 330 ft pounds of torque should make a nice car, and it *shouldn't* blow the tranny, but could. But it wouldn't be as bad as Tina blowing trannies a lot with her 450 hp 383. Tina also ran 17 times I think down the drag strip with her manual stock tranny, plus also drove back to her house without it blowing. It depends on the oil you use, clutch, etc. It also depends on how worn the tranny is. A tranny from a 150k mile car, can be better than one with 20k miles, its luck of the draw.

[This message has been edited by 1985FieroGT (edited 11-22-2003).]

would it help say starting out in second at the strip instead of first?

If you want a lot of power, just rebuild the transmission. I'm no expert, but I wouldn't give up on something I had been wanting forever because I was worried the transmission wouldn't hold up. I've got a spare transmission I'm going to start building as soon as I get my car running and a few bucks back in my pocket, because I know I am going to tear this one up. Anyway, good luck!
--Bryson

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88 Fiero GT Quad4 Turbo...It has begun
88 VW GTI 16v ($300 driver/autox MACHINE!)
90 Olds Calais International H.O. (donor car)
88 Fiero Formula (parts car)

The biggest problem with high torque engines is shock loading. IE: Dropping the clutch, or the initial turing of the internals. The tires are on pavement, and have HUGE amounts of friction between them, a good clutch has HUGE amounts of friction, so what happens? the tranny get's shocked, because all that energy is trying to go into the tranny, and trying to get to the pavement, however the tires don't want to let it hit the pavement.

Thats the laymen's terms

The stock Fiero tranny is fine as long as you don't do 4K clutch drops day and night at 300HP.

quote Originally posted by V8Guy427: ..... but the more I hear about how the fiero trannies dont hold up......

ahhh, you've been talking to Dennis!

You could go with a 4.9 auto setup.

quote Originally posted by Mastermind: You could go with a 4.9 auto setup.

I hear they are superior to the SBC, 3800 and N*!

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quote Originally posted by mrfiero: I hear they are superior to the SBC, 3800 and N*!

You heard correctly in regards to the V8s mentioned. It is superior in saving you money in installation cost. It also gives top notch performance for your investment dollar.

[This message has been edited by Mastermind (edited 11-24-2003).]

have the tranny parts cryo-treated or sonic treated lie Californiakid did and install an LSD

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+ a silver 85 2M4 and a gold 87 2M4
--Adam--
IM AOL: FieroGT5speed

There's an awful lot of V8 Fieros that have been running around here in Illinois for years without any problems with the getrag trans. I know some of them personally. I've also seen Archie drive his V8 cars in caravans for long distances. I can tell you that he certainly doesn't baby his cars by any means.
I don't think you should let someone poop on your parade in other words.

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Activities Director N.I.F.E.

As with any manual transmission, the life expectancy of it is going to depend on how you drive the car more than how much power your engine is producing, to a point. Obviously a stock Fiero transmission is only rated to handle something like 230 ft/lbs of torque or something and if you have an engine that is producing 500 ft/lbs of torque, you will probably still eat trannys even if you shift like granny.

The biggest problem with manual transmissions, even in rear wheel drive applications, is that every time you push on that clutch you unload the drivetrain. Hard launches and power shifting sends unimaginable shock thru the drivetrain which is the primary cause of failures. I can't tell you how many cars I have seen that blow up trannys even with a 4 banger. 90% of it comes down to how that tranny is treated.

Now, that is not to say that you can't blow up a tranny even if you granny shift it. If the 282 getrag is rated at say 230 ft/lbs, and you have an engine that puts out 300 ft/lbs of torque, I don't think I would expect it to last 100,000 miles; even if you were very nice to it. Parts are still going to wear out, and they are going to wear out faster the more power you put thru them. In my opinion, it just comes down to how much work you are willing to tolerate.

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power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Custom GM Chip Burning | Fiero Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | dtcc.cz28.com

Ya know, Archie says right on his page that he's heard this all before and he's never had the problem. He attests that he's never destroyed a stock transmission himself in the several hundered swaps he's done and none of his customers have either. I haven't done the swap yet, but that right there allieviated my biggest fear.

V8Guy427,
I really don't know who you have been talking to about fiero transmissions not holding up, but as a rule I have found that there are a lot of people that will tell you that, and they don't own a V8 car. Or if someone does have a problem with a transmission, it becomes blow-en way out of shape. Sure there are going to be some tranny not hold up but I have seen that in V6 cars too.
Like Dave Gunsul said there are a lot of us V8 guys out here that have never had any trouble with our transmissions. I have never had a bit of trouble with mine and I am running well over 400 ft.lbs. of torque.
You really need to talk to some of the V8 guys. Don't let some people that don't know what is really what, tell you not to go a head and build your dream. There are a lot of V8 cars out there, you need to find a couple and talk to the owners. You say you don't want to change transmissions every few months, I have had mine for a few years and not had any trouble and I don't baby it ether. I think you really need to do a little more research.
Best of luck with whatever your decide

Bob

I run approx 300 lb/ft of torque through an isuzu 5 speed. I spend about 10% of the time at WOT and it took 4 years to tear second gear out of my first trans.
Getting four years out of a trans is well worth it for the amount of fun it gives back.
At $100.00 each it is not too expensive either.
If you eant one then go ahead and build it and enjoy :-)

Tstroud, do you start in second often?

I wonder if Isuzu's 2nd gear will tend to suffer from overuse in high torque engines where 1st gear would feel too short. Even with moderately agressive pickups, a V8 would give it a good shot of torque.

It feels quicker if you start in second because you eliminate 1 shift.
I don't do this very often now because I found that second gear is the weak spot in the isuzu trans and first gear does not seem too short if you are hooking up at all.
I think it is the "clutch drops" that kill the isuzu because I never had a problem until I started dropping the clutch, even then it took the abuse for a while.
After seeing the inside of the trans I would feel much more confident dropping the clutch in first gear than second gear.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Ya know, Archie says right on his page that he's heard this all before and he's never had the problem. He attests that he's never destroyed a stock transmission himself in the several hundered swaps he's done and none of his customers have either. I haven't done the swap yet, but that right there allieviated my biggest fear.

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You should research this before you spit out what you've heard someone else echo. There have been numerous people including myself who have had countless transmission failures
among other things right out of the Archie shop. You can attribute it to whatever reason you like, but the SBC configuration in a Fiero will not endure. If you want to have it survive you NEED a small hp small torque engine, but then oh, you would be invalidating the reason for the V8. Some of the critics in this thread don't know what the F*** they are talking about, as they haven't owned, worked on, or paid for V8 in a Fiero, and yet they pretend to be the authority on it. You should ask these for some credentials before they influence your pocketbook. Ever notice why ALMOST no one dragraces their transverse SBC's on this Forum.
Yes, the 4.9 and 3800 are great because they are already designed and matched to the trannies they use.

I'm a SBC owner! And yes, I removed/ate 2nd gear from my Isuzu after 2.5 years of abuse! I originally had a 4spd, but was always looking for 5th, so in went the Isuzu. Now, the tranny came from a boneyard and had an estimated 130K kms on it. Smoother shifting and a 5th gear! I just replaced it with a 89cavalier Isuzu ($50.) My preference would be a Getrag, but everyone wants a million$$ for them. Isuzus are plentiful and cheep! Would I change out my SBC, NEVER!!!
Sandy

My son can destroy in an afternoon a vehicle I could drive for 50,000 miles without a problem even while thrashing it frequently.

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ICouldaBeenAV8

88 GT "ICouldaBeenAV8", 72 V8 Z "Agent Orange", 87 FZR 1000 "Young and Hung", 1979 CBX "Sumo Wrestler", Cb1100F "Queen For A Day", RIP M35 "Money Pit", someday Gen III RX-7

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Ya know, Archie says right on his page that he's heard this all before and he's never had the problem. He attests that he's never destroyed a stock transmission himself in the several hundered swaps he's done and none of his customers have either. I haven't done the swap yet, but that right there allieviated my biggest fear.

Actually the exact quote is "Using engines in the 250 to 400 h.p. range, we have run in excess of 500,000 miles on our test cars, and have had no drive line failures. It should be noted, however, even though we have had no failures, that any motor vehicle can fail if subjected to severe and constant abuse." http://www.v8archie.com/v8fiero.htm

Archie

quote Originally posted by V8Guy427: but the more I hear about how the fiero trannies dont hold up -Chris

Well......You're listening or reading posts from the wrong people. There are many ways to kill a transmission, all of them are beyond normal common sense.

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http://www.cartsys.com/fiero/cal-engine.wav

Hey, easy there Bazooka. I don't pretend to be any kind of Fiero authority. I was simply pointing out what Archie, a Fiero guy with abundant V8 credentials, said right on his V8 Fiero site. I would tend to believe Archie over someone who's credentials are not known because this is what he does. Did it come out wrong or something when I posted it?

Geting back on topic. I will be installing a Caddy 4.9l and using my 5spd Isuzu. Am I worried about breaking it, no, cause I know I will break it that said I am looking at having less than $1000 into my swap and that is before I sell of the caddy parts I am not using. Why did I select the 4.9,
1. Cost
2. Cost
3. Cost
4. V-8
5. I want to GO FAST Quickly!!! I need the low end for Auto Xing as well.

That is just my choices, not your.
We can only show you the doors, Only You Can Walk thru them!

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****************************************
86 SE Needs every thing but a Motor & Sunroof Seal!!! Now for Sale! $1200.00
http://home.cfl.rr.com/fierose
Web Master
Central Florida Fieros
http://www.centralfloridafieros.com
Will entertain for SIG! Photoshop Challenged. Only you can help stop Text Sig's!

I have a Northstar and Getrag. In the 2 years the swap's been on the road, I've had more trouble with clutches and trans-mount brackets than the transmission itself.

Do I seize every available opportunity to put the pedal to the floor? Pretty much, yes.

Do I drag race? 12.86@106

Do I AutoX? I live in Florida and just put Konis on the car... you do the math.

Do I do long, smoky burnouts? No.

Do I drop the clutch like a hot potato? No.

Do I feed the clutch to get perfect wheelspin off the line? Yes.

Now, I will caveat this by saying that a transmission with 100,000 miles on it has already lived a long and productive life. If you're going to subject it to twice it's design load, expect it to break that much sooner if it's already worn out. Spend the money and overhaul it (especially the diff side bearings), then install it and don't worry about it.

If you try to break it, it will break. But like CK said, breaking a transmission involves abuse beyond common sense.

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'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Hey, easy there Bazooka. I don't pretend to be any kind of Fiero authority. I was simply pointing out what Archie, a Fiero guy with abundant V8 credentials, said right on his V8 Fiero site. I would tend to believe Archie over someone who's credentials are not known because this is what he does. Did it come out wrong or something when I posted it?

... --- ... --- ... --- ...
That is like "asking the fox to watch the chickens". You gonna ask the guy selling these kits to give an opinion? You should know what that will be even before you ask.
************************

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: "Ya know, Archie says right on his page that he's heard this all before and he's never had the problem. He attests that he's never destroyed a stock transmission himself in the several hundered swaps he's done and none of his customers have either. I haven't done the swap yet, but that right there allieviated my biggest fear.

I was one of his conversion customers and my tranny broke down 5 times, from as short lived as a couple of days. It was a $1200 modification to upgrade at the time. After bringing the car back and forth to that shop for 1 1/2 years, I was convinced that they just didn't know how to solve the problems that their own conversion had created. To add to all the problems that the car still had, an unauthorized cannonball idiot from that shop had smashed the front end in while test driving it ($500 damage).
It's funny how people pass over the truth when they are just avoiding the "Pooping on someones parade" syndrome. There have been numerous accounts of people right here on the Forum who have gotten so disgusted with the this type of false information, that they sell their Fieros. So, know what your prospects are and talk to reliable people first, who have done what you intend to do.

Bazooka, you sound like you know what you're talking about, and I'm afraid we're falling into the typical trap these threads create. Since I'm still working on aquiring a V8, I obviously don't know nearly as much about V8 Fieros as you do. Finally, I would just like to point out again that I was only offering posted information relevant to the topic from a credible source. If you'd like to continue this further, please don't do it here; PM me.

V8Guy427, sorry for getting off topic. There are a lot of V8 Fieros out there. I've seen a few myself. There are some that have serious trouble and some that run fine. If the stock tranny was prone to blowing up, I don't think there would be so many V8 Fieros out there. It won't stop me from doing a V8 swap and it shouldn't stop you either.

Will.....Is your northstar stock and if so is it the 275hp or 300hp? If it's not stock, how much horsepower does it have or approximatly?

quote Originally posted by Will: If you try to break it, it will break. But like CK said, breaking a transmission involves abuse beyond common sense.

OK, you two stop stepping on my toes here (I'm not completely serious)

While I understand your statement, the "beyond common sense" clause is not very considerate towards diehard racers.

(Sniff, sniff, honey hand me a tissue...)

While my motivation would not be to break the tranny, I can assure you that given a motor in the 400-500 hp/torque range, connected to a Muncie, Getrag, or Isuzu, I will most certainly break it!

The reason is I am building a street-legal race car and I have every intention of finding every last drop of its performance. That is what my search has been about - to find a transmission that will allow me to use the car in the manner in which it was conceived.

So kiss my grits common sense patrol

Remember I am being silly I didn't mean it

perk

Well to each their own, but I also think it comes down to how you drive it. I get on mine taking off all the time, but I don't drop the clutch at 3K. Mine was on the chassis dyno yesterday, and it put down 320 ft/lb of torque through the rear wheels and nothing broke. So I can testify the getrag can take at least that. If you are going to beat it plan to pay, but that is true with most any car.

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LS1 v8 T-Top 87 GT

http://www.acxunlimited.com/ls1swap.htm

You know Bazooka, perhapes you should read the original post before you start flaming me for things i said. Then you can read what i said and you'll notice that i was very specific to say "GETRAG" each time! Now do you have a getrag?? NO! You have an auto. The original poster is looking at sticks for his V8 conversion not an auto. I did not make any comments on autos. I see your vendetta against Archie continues and now you attack me whenever possible because i don't have a problem with him. Perhapes now that it's been YEARS you should maybe move on and let it go. Just a thought.

quote Originally posted by perkidelic: OK, you two stop stepping on my toes here (I'm not completely serious) While I understand your statement, the "beyond common sense" clause is not very considerate towards diehard racers. (Sniff, sniff, honey hand me a tissue...) While my motivation would not be to break the tranny, I can assure you that given a motor in the 400-500 hp/torque range, connected to a Muncie, Getrag, or Isuzu, I will most certainly break it! The reason is I am building a street-legal race car and I have every intention of finding every last drop of its performance. That is what my search has been about - to find a transmission that will allow me to use the car in the manner in which it was conceived. So kiss my grits common sense patrol Remember I am being silly I didn't mean it perk

Perk...think you've seen this before, but I'll post again as it shows how long my car has been on the road with the V8, and it's never been driven easy, People at Waterford Race Track this past summer will verify that.

The fact of the matter regarding Street Legal sub 11 second 1/4 mile cars is that they will eat parts when constantly driven extremely agressive, I don't car what make it is. Also a fact on this Forum, it that very, very few people have more than $20,000 invested in their Fiero. So things should be put in their proper perspective when discussing issues like this.

There are many reasons people side with certain 'setups' and we are fortunate that there are variety of choices we all can make. Some people here think the 3800SC with auto trans is the best setup, but when you start pushing the envelope with this setup to equal or better that of a modded SBC in performance, it starts eating the engines and/or transmissions quicker than the V8 counter parts running the Getrag. While the 4 spd Auto Trans takes it a little easier on the halfshafts, they also are not built nor bullet proof modded to take constant abuse. Don't get me wrong, it's a great setup when kept within 'common sense' limits.

The transverse mid-engine configuration has it limits and so does the longitudinal setup (weight distribution). Bottom line is that anyone on this Forum, that wants a reasonably priced very durable 10 Second Street Screamer (with excellent cornering) should consider another make of vehicle, or be prepared to speed a lot of money replacing failed parts. It's also one of the main reasons I don't care to compete for the #1 slot in 1/4 Mile Performance here on the Forum, it comes with a heavy price and repeated rebuilding. I'm very content to sit in the 12 bracket, have exceptional handling, and durability matched by very few cars on the street today.

Hey guys, mind if I throw in something?

The V8 conversions are great, but the fact is, the Fiero would benefit more from a turbocharged 4 cylinder, and an updated drivetrain.

I'm currently starting a Turbo Ecotec project, and I'm also working on a website for it, and all boosted fieros at www.fieroturbo.com.

Anyway, the V8 is great. The sound, the look, the low end torque (torque is the main enemy of Fiero trannys, I think), but if you want better handling, braking, turning, fuel mileage, insurance costs, reliability in the drivetrain, weight distribution, and maintainence costs, then converting to a modern DOHC GM 4banger is a good option too.

There are Quad4 kits out there, some with turbo upgrades, or naturally aspiriated, and GM sells a bolt on supercharger for it. It can make around 240HP with the supercharged H.O. motor, but because the vehicle weight is lighter, you don't need so much power to get the same acceleration as a V8 Fiero.

Now, the Ecotec, which is all aluminum, and is capable of over 1,200HP with a 10,000 RPM redline, is not available in kit for for Fiero's. I hope to change that if my conversion goes well. My 88 Fiero will be the second Ecotec Fiero in existance when completed, and the first and only one that's turbocharged. The first ever is an 84 and has the bolt on supercharger.

Part costs:
Engine-$75 (junkyard $$$ is about $500, I stubled upon one that suits my needs)
Tranny-$300, and can hold major power!
Exhaust-somewhat custom, the manifold is towards the trunk, the stock muffer and tailpipes can be used, so that all means less piping, which equals less weight. Remember though, the V8's is custom too.
Mounts-custom for the Ecotec, but 94 and earlier Quad4's use same tranny mounts as Fiero
Wiring-just like V8's, custom.
Shift links-94 and earlier Quad 4's use the rodneydickman conversion for the Getrag.

I'm going with a 700HP+ turbo conversion, so my costs are much higher, but sticking to the semi-stock form, the costs could be around $2000, maybe $1000.

Just something to think about if you don't want the V8. I definitley think V8 Fiero's are awesome, but like I said, some people don't want that.

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Nitrously yours,
Airman Michael C Casaceli
United States Navy

Will work for Turbo Ecotec.

[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 11-25-2003).]

[This message has been edited by fieroturbo (edited 11-25-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Dave Gunsul: You know Bazooka, perhapes you should read the original post before you start flaming me for things i said. Then you can read what i said and you'll notice that i was very specific to say "GETRAG" each time! Now do you have a getrag?? NO! You have an auto. The original poster is looking at sticks for his V8 conversion not an auto. I did not make any comments on autos. I see your vendetta against Archie continues and now you attack me whenever possible because i don't have a problem with him. Perhapes now that it's been YEARS you should maybe move on and let it go. Just a thought.

**********************

Reading the opening thread would be a good idea for you, with all of your experience in driving borrowed V8's from archies shop. You open your flap every time I am helping someone with what I've witnessed, and all you can say is vendetta or attack. You sound like a genuine idiot. The original thread does Not mention sticks only, but implies any tranny. Read it.

quote Originally posted by V8Guy427:I had dreams and plans of making a v8 fiero for over a year now, finally got 86 GT and workin on the engine but the more I hear about how the fiero trannies dont hold up, and I dont exactly drive like a grandma I think I'm just digging myself into a hole, I dont really feel like changing transmissions every few months just because I drive halfway rough, not all the time just once in a while, its to bad DKOV isnt done with his tranny yet (even though its gonna cost $1800 yikes) Is there any other tranny's out there that will fit without alot of modification and dont cost more than the car itself? and will also handle more power than a stock fiero tranny?, I heard about VW's tranny but dont know much about it, anybody got any insight for me?.

quote Originally posted by fieroturbo: Hey guys, mind if I throw in something? The V8 conversions are great, but the fact is, ... yadda yadda yadda

That's not fact. That's your opinion. There is no such thing as one "best" setup for a Fiero. It's all about what the owner wants.

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quote Originally posted by V8Guy427: ...but the more I hear about how the fiero trannies dont hold up, and I dont exactly drive like a grandma... ...because I drive halfway rough, not all the time just once in a while... ...Is there any other tranny's out there that...handle more power than a stock fiero tranny?...

Well, if we go back to his original statements and question:

It sounds like you plan to use your car like California Kid and Will. Somewhere on between me and grandma Not for actual hardcore racing, but something you can stick your foot in when you desire to and experience the hp/torque.

That being the case you could probably have a Getrag rebuilt and upgraded and do fine. So what, you can't do 3-4K clutch drop launches with it - most street tires would go up in smoke anyway. Since you never mentioned drag radials and maximum straight-line acceleration runs, a good Getrag might work just fine for you - providing you remain within "common sense" driving.

The other benefit is that later when DKOV or someone comes up with a bolt-in high-performance replacement, you can upgrade and drive even harder. For those who have already extracted years of smiles from their V8 Fieros, without much drama, a new stronger tranny would be another step forward in the evolutionary process, and icing on the cake.

perk

quote Originally posted by V8Guy427: would it help say starting out in second at the strip instead of first?

Speaking of genuine idiot BAZOOKA just what do you think the original poster is talking about HERE???? I guess being a REAL genuine idiot you didn't bother to read everything the original poster said now did you?
Gee sounds like a manual to me but since im a genuine idiot and you're such a mastermind i gues this guy above MUST be talking about leaving in second with an auto right??

As for the vendetta; you can't even take a compliment on your car without trashing Archie. I've heard you in person. Someone comes up and says how nice your car is and instead of saying something like thanks you say; it's amazing how good it looks after all the butchering that's been done to it. It'd be one thing to bring that up if someone asked you about the Archie kit or install but mentioning it everytime you even get a compliment? Or how about when i was asking you about the kit itself? You raged on and on about Archie and i kept saying, "yes but what about the kit itself? Are there any problems with it?" It took forever to get you to finally admit that the kit was sound.
There's a bunch of other stuff i could bring up that you neglect to mention but i'm not even going to go into that.
All i know is Marty that everytime you start it and then get mad when i retaliate. You attacked my comments specifically. Even refered to the guy who crashed your car, which i didn't even know about, as a "cannonball" which obviously refers to my sig. Yet, there seems to be quite a few V8 Fiero owners above who have had no problems and you say nothing to them. Look at Cali kids comments, that's ten years his car's been running! It has a getrag not an auto. It's the same thing with you every time Marty, if someone you know personally says even one thing about Archie in a good way you attack them or you decide to just not like them because of that. I used to look forward to seeing you, you were always a nice guy to talk to but now it's like all you talk about is trashing Archie even when the convo isn't about him at all you'll bring him up. That's a vendetta pure and simple. Move on.

Indeed....=D Thanx for everyone's Input it was very much appreciated and any further input or opinions are welcome, lets keep it out of the trash can please =)

-Chris

quote Originally posted by V8Guy427: lets keep it out of the trash can please =) -Chris

AHHHH!! What the fun in that