Hello,
I am going to be moving my battery up front and have a two questions:

1.What size wire do I need to do this?
1/0 guage good?

2. What do the guages mean? I am familiar with 14guage, 24guage, etc.. What is thicker 1/0 or 4/0?

Thanks!

PS- Not looking to start a new debate on who's, why's , or wherefore's on the principles of the battery relocation

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1984 SE - 30800 out of 136840. Being modified!

The smaller the number, the thicker the wire.

I used 2 gauge welding cable. Just go to a welding supply store and they'll cut it from a roll, or maybe have a piece laying around.

quote Originally posted by KlingonFiero: Hello, I am going to be moving my battery up front and have a two questions: 1.What size wire do I need to do this? 1/0 guage good? 2. What do the guages mean? I am familiar with 14guage, 24guage, etc.. What is thicker 1/0 or 4/0?

I used 2 gauge welding leads run through 3/4" garden hose as a conduit.

1/0 is thicker than 2 gauge. 4/0 is thicker than 1/0. I think the wire gauge system ran out of numbers and then people started going by the number of zeros for thicker wires. 1/0 = 0, 4/0 = 0000

Haha I use 2 gauge to run an amp, while you start a car with it. But really 2 gauge should be more than enough because you are only passing amperage through it for couple seconds at a time. The factory doesnt use huge wires if you have noticed.

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Hello, Ive been doing this since 1986 when I made my first kit. Iuse #4 welding about 11ft. run from the starter up front to the battery then use the same stock neg.gound wire from the battery to a bolt on the front suspension using the chassis as a ground. Dont run two wires back and forth as I have seen and heard before. Run the wire along the air condtioner tubes down the middle. This a must for all engine swaps as it moves the weight from next to the engine up front and gives a lower center of gravity plus it gives you room back there so you can work easier on your engine. Thanks Norm from normsfiberglass.com

There are a few considerations for this....

The welding wire is the best stuff... this is made specifically for low voltage and high current over long distances. It has much finer strands than normal battery wire.

Running bigger wire than you think you need isn't a bad thing. Remember that as distance goes up, wire size must also go up to compensate for the resistance in the wire. If you don't do this, the car will likely have problem starting. Fractions of an ohm are important when you are pulling 200-400 amps.

OE cables can get away with "thin" wire because they are fairly short. Most are less than 1/2 to 1 meter long. When a cable is 2-3 meters long, it has to be much thicker to carry the same current. OE cables, especially ACDelco/Delphi ones, also use manufacturing processes that insure better connections at the wire ends. Delphi crimped terminals are applied with a hydraulic press.

One reason to run two wires is if you are in a high rust or a cold climate.

Two wires will get all the current to/from the battery and starter. The starter is the single biggest power eater in the whole car. And... There are fewer connections to get corroded. Just one crappy connection can and probably will kill the whole car.

If you want to use just the big + wire... mount the ground to the car frame directly. Not the front suspension. (same issue... minimizing corrosion and voltage drops. Even small drops add up. The front cross member is not welded in.)

With a frame ground, you have to add a good heavy cable between the block and frame. (Not the cradel!) The OE ground straps aren't ment to handle the ground return for the high amps of the starter.

Also... There is some new technology in the works... Go to www.motor.com and read Eye on Electronics by Mike Dale in the Sept 2000 issue. It talks about how car makers are looking to cut the size of the battery by using capacitors. (These are advanced versions of the large caps used with big automotive sound systems) These capacitors are already on the market but I don't know where you can get them or what they would cost. One source seen in Motor can be found here. (I don't know if they sell to the public.)

A car with the capacitors only needs a "motor cycle" type battery. The cap/battery package ends up weighing about 10 pounds vs a common 30-50 pound battery in most cars and light trucks today.

Another big advantage is that capacitors are a one time purchase as long as you chose them carefully. These don't go bad every 2-4 years like a battery. A side effect is the caps can actually extend the life of the battery itself since they take current spikes far better than a normal battery only system. So even tho you still use battery, it lasts longer.

If you have multiple caps they don't even have to be mounted in the same spot... Since they don't outgas, you can even mount them in the trunk and other enclosed areas you could never put a battery in.

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Be alert. The world needs more lerts...

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 11-08-2003).]

i have used 8 gauge car stereo amp wire and found it works great plus you can get some great transparent colors to give it a very sharp look the reason i used this wire also is cause it if very fine and has low resistance its better suited for a starter than a car stereo cause its only a quick 10 sec or less that you crank an starter

Under normal conditions.... The amount of time you crank isn't all that important. (Extended cranking or a bad starter can burn even the best wire... you're dealing with hundreds of amps.)

The main issue is voltage drop caused by wire/connection resistance. Wire resistance is mainly a function of the wire size and length.

A small increase in resistance can make a huge voltage drop. Reduced voltage will make the starter want more current. This can actually ruin the starter or at least shorten the life of it considerably. (This is the reason many starter rebuilders recomend replacing the battery cables and even the battery when the starter is replaced.)

WOW, All the info.

thanks for the link(s) Ogre.

So, if i get 4/0 cable that is bigger than 2/0 cable?

Is 2/0 cable suffecient for my needs?
I am running a basically "stock" system.

Thanks!

2/0 cable will work just fine!!

as noted above... The more zeros the bigger the wire.

As I remember... Welding cable runs a bit different from AWG. #2 welding cable is pretty heavy stuff. Welding cable also has a tougher jacket than most other wire. The makers expect it to get dragged around allot.

You really want the welding cable. Not "standard" stranded or solid wire. (Not "range" or "Dryer" cable for example.)

quote Originally posted by theogre: as noted above... The more zeros the bigger the wire. As I remember... Welding cable runs a bit different from AWG. #2 welding cable is pretty heavy stuff. Welding cable also has a tougher jacket than most other wire. The makers expect it to get dragged around allot. You really want the welding cable. Not "standard" stranded or solid wire. (Not "range" or "Dryer" cable for example.)

Cool, Thanks alot Ogre.
I found 2/0 Welding cable on E-bay for $1.00 a foot (plus shipping - which for 20 feet is $13.50(which is still cheaper than the $3 a foot I have found locally))

anybody have a link where I can buy this welder's cable?

quote Originally posted by jscott1: anybody have a link where I can buy this welder's cable?

Try this e-mail: electwire@worldnet.att.net

That is the e-mail that responded when I asked the seller (on E-bay) a question.
Ebay handle: hardwarespec

Here is a link to a current auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3154696505&category=3188

Good luck.

[This message has been edited by KlingonFiero (edited 11-08-2003).]

look in your phone book. most areas have at least one welding supply place near by. Welding cable isn't hard to come by.

Also... with any stranded wire... work some silcone dielectric grease into the wire to keep crap out of it. This small item can save you from major corrosion even in the worst environments.