These are the ingredients:

* '69 Chevy Suburban (no, it is not for a Fiero)
* 350 with shot rodbearings ( 10 hours of driving 90mph with no sufficient amount of oil did the job)
* second 350 (from a 77(?) Caprice)replaced the first one. It started to knock during the first long trip. It was very dirty inside, although I changed oil and filter 3 times in 3 weeks before. Seems some oilpassages were blocked by dirt. I also found a lot of crushy dried up oil when I pulled the intake to check the lifters. Seller wouldn't take it back. And it is still in the car.

So I am seriously thinking about rebuilding one myself. And it's NOT going in the Fiero (V8 Fiero's not allowed here, only V6 and 4 cil ). but 3800SC IS possible.

The first 350 seems the one to start with. It was very clean inside. it was easy to take the lifters and pistons out. Heads might need some high temp valveseats ( we run a lot on propane/LPG around here with the V8's. If you see the petrolprices overhere you know why! . Anyway, LPG is burning a bit slower but hotter so the valveseals appear to be the weakest part. Everything else looked great, except the rodbearings. On most of them you see the copper coming through. one bearing was split in 2 halves, much eaten away.

So at least:
I will have the crankshaft done.
New bearings with the new offset. mainbearings too.
oilpump+shaft
lifters
valve seals
timingchain and gear
I already have a gasket set

I don't want to rebuild everything but use the existing parts where possible. I would like to know what is important to replace no matter what and which parts can easily be refurbished and used again.
And what can be done at home and what shouldn't be done at home?
I already have the "how to rebuild your smallblock Chevy" by Larry Atherton & Larry Schreib. The only thing that scares me is when they start about measurements of about 0,0000555". you should check this and that, but they never tell you what to do when it isn't right!
I have never rebuild a complete engine but: I have swapped the second 350 in my Burban, everything worked well before the engine itself decided to fail. I have stripped my first crashed Fiero to the frame, replaced injectors,alternators, batteries, cvjoints, steeringracks, steeringcolumns, brakes, lowering springs,polybushings,mrmikes, midconsole subbox, bodykit, lights etc.... You know the regular stuff you do to keep the Fiero going! I am afraid the next step is getting into engines?!

So:
What to do?
What not to do?

Thanks

That book will help you a lot.
First make sure you go to a competent machinist and follow his advice.
When he grinds the crank have him get the right bearings for it.
Then it will either be right or he will have to take care of it for you.
He has the tools to do the close tolerance measurements and if he knows how to use them there will be no problem.

While you have it that far apart I would have the block professionally cleaned out, cut the ring ridges and hone it for new rings assuming the cylinders are not worn out too much.
Have the shop install new cam bearings after cleaning the block.

I would also have the heads checked over if they have a lot of miles on them. LP is harder on the seats than gasoline and the seat width is more critical on LP.

It would be cheaper to buy a re-ring kit than to buy the individual pieces.

Most importantly, get a good machinist and follow his advice. Beware of the hosers out there.
Don't leave your parts with someone you don't trust!

quote Originally posted by tstroud: That book will help you a lot. First make sure you go to a competent machinist and follow his advice.

This will be the hardest part. I bought the second engine on recommendation of a guy who is rebuilding V8's, he has a 455 '73 Buick and he is building a 500+HP Ford Torino. But I wasn't lucky anyway.

quote When he grinds the crank have him get the right bearings for it. Then it will either be right or he will have to take care of it for you. He has the tools to do the close tolerance measurements and if he knows how to use them there will be no problem. While you have it that far apart I would have the block professionally cleaned out, cut the ring ridges and hone it for new rings assuming the cylinders are not worn out too much. Have the shop install new cam bearings after cleaning the block. I would also have the heads checked over if they have a lot of miles on them. LP is harder on the seats than gasoline and the seat width is more critical on LP. It would be cheaper to buy a re-ring kit than to buy the individual pieces. Most importantly, get a good machinist and follow his advice. Beware of the hosers out there. Don't leave your parts with someone you don't trust!

thanks.
I have the 882 heads. Any "easy" mods to get more out of them?
And what about the standard iron 4BBL intake?

quote Originally posted by Fie Ro: thanks. I have the 882 heads. Any "easy" mods to get more out of them?

Clean up the casting flash in the tops of the ports, leave the bottoms of the ports rough(intake and exhaust).
Have the heads checked for cracks, especially on the exhaust seats in the middle cylinders.

quote And what about the standard iron 4BBL intake?

Depending on the part number they are OK for low RPM use but they are heavy. I'd recommend an aftermarket aluminum unit.

What RPM range and what kind of horsepower are you shooting for?

Lots of good advise here. While you're at it, I'd recommend installing the Edlebrock carb/intake/camshaft group along with headers. It's about $800, but it would be well spent.

Yep, me too. Maybe trim the weight of that Suburban from 6,500 pounds down to 6,450.

sorry, I couldn't resist.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by tstroud: Depending on the part number they are OK for low RPM use but they are heavy. I'd recommend an aftermarket aluminum unit.

Weight saving is not quite an issue with a Suburban
I know swapping an Edlebrock intake and cam plus lifters is popular. How much HP do they add normally (and with headers)?
I just want a reliable engine with some simple tweaks where possible but I'll try to save some money for the Fiero's engineswap next year. I know HP comes with the money but it doesn't have to be a high revving high power engine.

I already have headers and a dual exhaust system on the car. I will reuse the Quadrajet carb. I have a cleaned and repainted 4bbl intake. Yeah its heavy but if it does the job well for low/mid rpm I might reuse it.

BTW the pistons/pushrods/lifters I took out were kept in order when put away in boxes. Thats one thing I learned from the book So I guess I have too take everything from the heads and block and send them for cleaning and checking. New (harder) LPG valve seats. grinding the crank. Should I have the rods checked too? some are a bit black from the heat. I don't know if they could be bend. Anyway the engine was running ok when I took it out, only the Tac tac sound showed something was wrong.
What about pistons and rings? again, it seems the engine is rebuild before. Cylinders look fine, no significant ridges and I could easily slide the pistons out at the top (crank was still there because I did't had a damperpuller) And the pistons don't seem to be iron....?

I'll try to make pictures of some parts.

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Yep, me too. Maybe trim the weight of that Suburban from 6,500 pounds down to 6,450. sorry, I couldn't resist. John Stricker

Oh yeah, I forgot about it going back into a suburban. After all it's not "Pennock's Suburban Forum" is it?

quote Originally posted by tstroud: Oh yeah, I forgot about it going back into a suburban. After all it's not "Pennock's Suburban Forum" is it?

Normally I would have put it in the Off Topic section but since many people are putting 350's in a Fiero I thought it might be usefull to put in in Tech.

If it were me, for the application you're using it for, I'd leave the thing basically stock. Maybe add an RV cam to it, but that's about it.

It's important to keep the lifters in their correct position only if you're going to re-use the stock cam. If you put any other cam in it, you're going to need to use new lifters anyway.

Pistons are a good idea to keep in order with the rods attached.

If the block is as good as you feel it is, take it to a machine shop and have them clean it good. Put cam bearings in. Hone the cylinders. Get a re-ring kit with bearings and a re-ground (or grind your) crank. Take the heads apart, be sure to keep the valves in the right order, and have the heads cleaned good, then let the machine shop give it a good 3 angle valve job and put some Perfect Circle type valve seals on the guides. You may want to let the machine shop disassemble and reassemble the heads for you. They can do it faster than you can for a reasonable cost. Be sure to check their work, though, as a lost keeper and dropped valve can ruin your day.

Basic head work, clean and prep the block, new rings and bearings on a turned crank, and you should have a reasonably strong, very reliable engine for the next 150,000 miles or so.

No, it won't impress the chicks or make grown men drool like babies, but it will be a respectable performer that you're not constantly putting money into or spending valuable Fiero time working on it.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Fie Ro: Weight saving is not quite an issue with a Suburban I know swapping an Edlebrock intake and cam plus lifters is popular. How much HP do they add normally (and with headers)? I just want a reliable engine with some simple tweaks where possible but I'll try to save some money for the Fiero's engineswap next year. I know HP comes with the money but it doesn't have to be a high revving high power engine. I already have headers and a dual exhaust system on the car. I will reuse the Quadrajet carb. I have a cleaned and repainted 4bbl intake. Yeah its heavy but if it does the job well for low/mid rpm I might reuse it. BTW the pistons/pushrods/lifters I took out were kept in order when put away in boxes. Thats one thing I learned from the book So I guess I have too take everything from the heads and block and send them for cleaning and checking. New (harder) LPG valve seats. grinding the crank. Should I have the rods checked too? some are a bit black from the heat. I don't know if they could be bend. Anyway the engine was running ok when I took it out, only the Tac tac sound showed something was wrong. What about pistons and rings? again, it seems the engine is rebuild before. Cylinders look fine, no significant ridges and I could easily slide the pistons out at the top (crank was still there because I did't had a damperpuller) And the pistons don't seem to be iron....? I'll try to make pictures of some parts.

pc trouble.

[This message has been edited by Fie Ro (edited 10-18-2003).]

So far everything that has been said is good
I would like to add a few notes.
About the heads…
If you want to learn, ask the machine shop if you can watch them do a head job and have them do it. because if you are going to have them do a valve job and have the heads checked you are wasting your time taking them apart.
But if you really must do it yourself…
When you take them apart and you’re keeping the valves and what not in order, take a centerpunch and put a mark on one of the heads and mark that corresponding box of parts so you’ll know which head to put the stuff back in to.
The tops of the valve stems may have spread out a bit so they don’t come through the guide. Use a fine file to get rid of the hump at a 45’ angle.
To clean the carbon and varnish off the valves use a bench grinder with a wire wheel.
Check the valve stems for wear or scratches
After the valves and heads are clean and everything is oil and grit free.
Put the valves in the heads and wiggle the valves they will probably all have a little slop, a tiny bit is ok, but if the valve can wiggle 2mm or more you need the guide either replaced or gnarled and honed. If this had to be done, the relationship of the guide and the valve seat will change slightly and a valve seat grind may be required.
I only suggest positive valve stem seals on the intake valves, some will disagree.
Cleaning the heads.
An air die grinder or angle grinder with a very small wire brush in the shape of a cup or all pointing forward like the pedals of a rose bud will clean in inside of the valve seats and the combustion chamber.
When finally assembling the head dip each valve stem in a cup of oil.
If you did a valve job, check stem height from the spring seat,
shims may be required.
Unless you have the expensive tools to do it yourself, a shop can do a better job.
Once it’s all back together take the heads to a machine shop and ask to have them “suck” tested.
This is a test to see if a vacuum can be created in the intake and exhaust ports, it shows if the valves are making a good seal at the seat. Anything below about 5 bar suggest a weak seal.

Have the rods checked, they may not be able to do it with the pistons on, and you will most likely damage at least one piston if you remove all 8. if you have them reconditioned they remove the bolts, grind the 4 flat spots so the rod and cap no longer make a circle when assembled it looks more like this (), then a new circle is ground so it’s perfect again.

Have the block cleaned, including the oil galleys, have cam bearings installed.
You might as well replace the freeze plugs yourself while you got the block out and clean right now. It’s cheap and easy, just ask for a freeze plug kit from an auto parts store, should come with oil and water galley plugs.

Chevy cams are known for going bad, get a new cam kit, this will also give you new lifters.

Once the engine is all back together minus the valve covers. Rotate the crank until you are at TDC on #1 on the compression stroke and don’t touch the crank again. Watch the rocker arms as your turning the crank, you are on the compression stroke when the intake valve was the last rocker to move. This will make timing simple when you drop in the distributor.

After the engine is complete the last part to put in being the distributor, put on an oil filter, fill it with oil and use an oil priming tool to run the oil pump with a drill.
I’ve seen two types of tools for this, one is a shaft that fits through a housing that looks like the bottom of the distributor case. And the other type is just a shaft.
If you get the type that is just a shaft, put some rags around the distributor opening on the intake, cause about 0.00001 of a second after the drill rpm drops down, the oil is gonna come up out of there like a fountain.

Rotate the crank shaft 360’ twice so your back at TDC on #1 and do your final valve adjustment to the fulcrum nuts.

Talk to your auto parts stores, and the machine shop.
They both can probably supply you with a kit that includes
Cam and lifters
Timing chain and gears
Freeze plugs
Rings
Bearings
Gaskets

The kit price should be a lot cheaper than buy each piece separately

Thank you guys for taking the time to post!
I think I am getting the picture

I was already thinking of getting some rebuild kit if possible. Prices overhere are twice as high already with the shipping and taxes. I might get parts directly from Jegs or Summit but first I have to find and talk to a shop to see what they have to offer....

I also will take a look at this:
There's one quite reliable company in this country which has a lot of crate engines and rebuild engines. Maybe some deal is possible like getting a rebuild engine with trading in my two 350's.... I will give them a call this week. The good thing is their engines are rebuild with the use of LPG in mind so they already have the hardened valveseats... And they seem to have a good reputation.

Otherwise it will be the rebuilding route!

go that route