If I wanted to daisy chain two Red Optimas...is there anything to look out for?

Should I get a bigger Alternator? I know the answer is probably do one or the other, right?

If I will be adding a stereo system later...would a bigger alternator be better or more redundancy for the battery?

[This message has been edited by BlueCat (edited 10-14-2003).]

must be a helluva system to be needing that much power. they make big 'ol capacitors you can put inline to provide surge juice for subwoofer amps. that and the CS alternator, and you should be OK. But I dont know what your power requirements are, but the above will take care of most people.

If I understand you correctly, and I think I do, you will have ~24v of power. Just a warning. The electrical system aint designed for that.

My understanding that is when you daisy chain, you still only have 12 Volts

What is the CS alternator? Where can you get one? How much? Why is this a good one?

quote Originally posted by BlueCat: My understanding that is when you daisy chain, you still only have 12 Volts What is the CS alternator? Where can you get one? How much? Why is this a good one?

Perhaps I don't understand exactly the term "daisy-chain." But with batteries connected in series or parallel, you combine the voltage.

quote Originally posted by BlueCat: If I wanted to daisy chain two Red Optimas...is there anything to look out for? Should I get a bigger Alternator? I know the answer is probably do one or the other, right? If I will be adding a stereo system later...would a bigger alternator be better or more redundancy for the battery? [This message has been edited by BlueCat (edited 10-14-2003).]

GM used two batteries in their infamous 350 Diesel in the 80's. It was a 12V system. They simply needed more CCA because of the high compression. It was simpler to use two than one BIG one. There is a way to wire the batteries, series or parallel, (can't remember) to get 12 vs. 24 volts.
Your prolly better off with a larger alternator. You can buy the SI in a 140 amp version from Summit. Check out Ogre's cave for switching to the CS, which I think you can also get in a >100 amp version....Paul

quote Originally posted by Rainman: Perhaps I don't understand exactly the term "daisy-chain." But with batteries connected in series or parallel, you combine the voltage.

That is not correct. Wiring two batteries in parallel, that is hooking up pos to pos and neg to neg will not increase the voltage it will increase the amperage. Likewise, hooking them up in series, that is ground to neg of bat #1, pos of bat #1 to neg of Bat #2, pos of battery #2 to device will double the voltage but the amperage remains the same.

Tony_C has it right. I was sitting at my desk when it hit me about what I had said. I came back to fix it and he beat me to it.

Parallel will work fine, just not in series. derrrr.

What can cause the electrical system to drain the battery only when the temperature is HOT outside?

I was thinking that my car was not Starting b/c the Starter Solenoid was getting hot and not moving...but now I understand that the battery is definately getting drained if it is not reading at least 12.6 Volts when the car is off. And knowing that the alternator won't even turn on if the battery doesn't read 12 Volts, could this be the reason it won't start without a jump?

Can the Starter getting too hot, cause the battery to drain?

Or is it more likely that my belt/pulley is slipping and not turning the Alternator enough?

Can I buy an Alternator that would put out more power and cause the belt to be tighter? have a larger pulley or be higher/more the the left or right OR something like this?

Maybe I don't understand what you're trying to accomplish. Are you wanting to use two battteries to "band-aid" over an existing problem you are having with your car? If so, two batteries isn't going to solve anything.

If I understand you are having starting problems, with a dead battery. I would clean all connections, and if that doesn't solve it, have the alternator tested.

PS: Buy a repair maunal. A lot of this stuff is going to be in there.

[This message has been edited by Rainman (edited 10-14-2003).]

and I thought you just wanted more power for running a monster stereo. car wont start when hot?
go get the battery tested. they usually do additional alternator tests, and usually free. could cost up to $10. if the battery & alternator check out, replace battery cables & make sure you get a GOOD CLEAN GROUND - very important. last, if it still not starting when hot, replace starter. that takes you thru the whole starting/charging system.

heat kills magnatism & current flow. when hot, the starter has to work really hard and the cables have a hard time carrying current. thats whats happening to you. the battery almost drains itself trying to push the current thru power sucking cables to a power starved starter.

Yeah, the problem is that the system has been checked half a dozen times and always checks out...I have moved the battery to the front and run 2 ga wire...Got a Red Optima for more resiliency

I did not drive the car much this summer(hot weather) as I was working on the suspension and out of town...I got a Starter Heat Shield I need to install...and the Optima battery is over a year old...regular batteries wouldn't last 6 months before I got the Optima and redid the cables

Again, this only seems to happen when it is hot outside. Could the alternator be bad and just not able to handle the heat?

If you are concerned about the alternator, here is an easy check out.
Get a multimeter and check the voltage of the battery (11.0 to 12.0V)with the car off.

Then start it and see what the voltage is (around 13.5 to 14V) at the battery. Its the easiest way to see if the alternator is dead. If you don't get a rise in voltage, your alt. isn't charging.

Be very careful with multiple battery setups of any kind. This is DC current, once it gets a hold of you... You cannot let go.
AC voltage (in your house) will throw you because its alternating current.
For anyone delving into this area, educate yourself. A 12V battery can snuff you out fairly efficiently, two batteries (series or paralle) has a much greater chance of getting a hold of you. All it takes is one moment when a tool touches something you don't want it too.
Please be careful.

88Ironduke

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Pilots with out maintainers are just pedestrians with a cool jacket and sunglasses.
I.Y.A.M.Y.A.S.

ask me why i dont wear rings anymore

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Buddy - there are two "G"s in my name
Ling = 84SE-350-N2O-Poly-Mr.Mike seats-Sequential turn signals-short shifter
Julia C = 85GT stock (mostly)
KCFOG
got a broken stud?
car doesn't crank over?

It sounds like a heat soak problem with the starter.When the engine is hot and you shut it off the starter becomes hotter and is harder to turn.What I've done in the past was to remove the starter and weaken the spring that returns the bendix gear.The spring only has to be strong enough to keep the gear from engaging the flywheel.That may be all that is necessary to solve your problem.

If you are sucking down batteries...

Unless you are buying the worlds worst batteries...

The problem isn't the batteries and running two batteries in parralel will just leave you with two dead batteries instead of one.

Something else is either draining the batery or preventing it from charging. Maybe both. You must find and fix the problem.

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Be alert. The world need more lerts...

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

Because you forgot to ALWAYS remove the negative cable first??

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: ask me why i dont wear rings anymore

EDIT: i'm stupid.

[This message has been edited by FieroAudio (edited 10-14-2003).]

Yes, I have a problem. No, I don't know what it is.

Hugh - could you explain more about what you mentioned

This is a warm/hot weather phenomenon

In my mind, everything is pointing to either the starter not functioning properly or the pulley slipping.

The car is running great now that the temp has dropped. Starts right up every time. No hessitation.

I am not going to worry about this too much...I will worry about it next year as the temp starts to rise. I will put the heat shield on the starter and keep an eye on the battery. I haven't been checking it regularly.

If you ran 2 ga wire to your starter, I assume you ran 2 ga back to the battery. Assuming that the total length is about 15 feet your total voltage drop will be about 1.2 volts due to resistance in the wire alone. That is assuming that all your connections are tight, etc. Since the internal resistance of the battery is some finite amount the battery voltage drops when cranking. Cranking a starter will draw anywhere from 80 to 160 amps. Couple the two voltage drops and you could be down near 8 volts at the starter. Measure the voltage at the starter terminal and the battery ground to determine this. Do not measure the ground at the engine block as it could be 1 to 1.5 volts above battey ground.

First, make sure you run a heavy ga ground from the battery to the engine block. Use welding cable or 2/0 wire. That's 00 ga Then ground the battery in the front of the vehicle also (2 ga is fine here). Then run a dedicated welding cable or size 2/0 positive wire to the circuits in the rear.

If you have run a charging wire from the alternator to the battery through any of the fusible links, then you will be down about 1.2 volts at the battery during charging. Keep in mind it is dangerous to run these large cables around under your car. make sure they can't melt or get snagged. If the positive cable ever chaffed on the gas tank, you will become a special effect.

As far as running the stereo goes, many batteries conected in parallel sure looks cool. Whenever I see that I always wonder if the guy was sleeping during pyhsics class. Parallel batteries must be of equal size, type and quality, or one will take a charge and the other will drain it. Parallel batteries have more amps but internal battery resistance means you still have a slow rise time for musical transients. The best solution is to install a single ultra battery, like the kind designed to crank race cars. They have an extreemly low internal resistance, as shown by the CCA rating. Use a very large capacitor bank. The 720w amp I built years ago had almost 1 farad of capacitance in the power supply. The amp would continue playing for 10 secs after the power was shut off.

Deep cycle batteries have a very high internal resistance and are a poor choice for both starting and stereos.

Check Ogre's Cave on the electrical system and charging articles. Sounds like you've got a bad ground somewhere or a bad connection.

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quote Originally posted by wcapman: many batteries conected in parallel sure looks cool... Parallel batteries must be of equal size, type and quality, or one will take a charge and the other will drain it. .

You want to be very careful if you plan to run two batteries. The best solution is to use a battery isolator, which will allow you to safely operate two batteries without the danger of one battery draining the other.

It will also allow you to completely drain one battery and still start the car using the other battery, (depending on how it's set up).

I also had the starter heat soak problem. After driving a long way in the heat, shut off the car and then turn the key and nothing would happen. But wait 30 minutes for everthing to cool down and the car started right up. A new starter solved the problem.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 10-14-2003).]

Yeah, I will probably replace the starter next spring. This engine is running great, I will probably have to find another Fiero to do an engine conversion on.

I am interested in the setup that would allow one battery to competely drain, but the other to be unaffected and still start the car. Could you explain a little more about this or point me in the right direction? Thanks

I've been looking into a dual battery setup to allow all my accessories to run while the car is off with no danger of draining the starting battery. A lot of RVs are set up this way and the battery isolators are marketed that way.

here's a link
http://www.smithae.com/surepower.html