Hi,

First of all for those who don't know me I am Marc from Holland and have a Black GT Fastback from 1987. I have my Fiero almost 2 years now, and still having fun!

Now I have a technical question about headers. I think there is a little leak in the headers (The one at the back closest to the drivers seat / rear window).

What is the best way to repair this?
I was thinking about Holts Firegum which can survive 1000 degree celcius temperatures, this for a temporary quick solution.

If I have enough money I want performance headers for my Fiero. Does anyone have experience with performance headers? Where can I get them and how much performance increase will I get?

Thanks for your help in advance.
BTW, great forum. The biggest in the world I believe.

Regards,
Marc

You have a few choices, take yours off and have them welded and ported (8-10hp gains) or buy manifolds from KFG or Dennis Lagrua, they are the same product.(13-15hp gains)

I'm not optimistic that firegum would work.

I got the new manifolds below on mine...

[This message has been edited by LordBoOsT (edited 09-03-2003).]

quote Originally posted by LordBoOsT: You have a few choices, take yours off and have them welded and ported (8-10hp gains) or buy manifolds from KFG or Dennis Lagrua, they are the same product.(13-15hp gains)

Uh, Those gains are slightly inflated. KFG shows dyno gains of 5 torque and 6hp.
http://members.shaw.ca/turbofiero/fiero_headers.htm

On the topic,
In reality, You can remove your exhaust manifolds, port and re-weld them. This is good for a few hp (about 2hp). This will correct the leaks, but the cracks will come back over time.

The Fiero Store makes performance manifolds called Sprints. They are good for about 4-5hp gains, well constructed and ceramic coated. Had mine for 7 years and no problems, still look great.

West Coast Fiero makes a "Shorty" header. Simular in gains as the Sprints. These cost less than the Sprints if you buy them uncoated. But cost more if you want them coated.

The KFG's are stainless steel, From what I've seen very well constructed and about 6hp gains. Slightly cheaper than the Sprints.
I probably would have bought these if they were available back when I bought my Sprints.

Finally West Coast Fiero makes a full set of tuned headers. These are the best flowing available, But on a stock 2.8L you will lose some low end torque. If you plan on doing mods to your engine to increase output these would be something to consider.

Hope this helps.

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Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.

double post...oops

[This message has been edited by LordBoOsT (edited 09-03-2003).]

Ok, so if you change the headers and manifold do I have to modify My muffler as well? And what about that "Y"-pipe I saw on the KGC site. DO I need that as well.

I don't know much about the engines, but I am trying to learn (Fiero Forums are a big help).

Regards,
Marc

quote Originally posted by LordBoOsT: Actually, if you read the dyno results at that link you will notice that they claim 6hp gains over stock "ported" manifolds. Researching info about 'ported' stock manifolds will tell you you will gain 8hp. This has been proven on dyno results, both on stock ported and KFGs. Thats how I got my figures. 8+6=14hps, for what its worth...LOL. If anyone really wants to see the write up on on power gains for stock porting, let me know. I'll look for the link but I'm sure everyone has already read it. Mike.

8HP for porting stock manifolds???? I don't think so. 1FST2M6 about 2 years ago ran dyno's on all headers available (KFG's were not available back then) using the same engine. He was very careful in his testing to only change 1 thing at a time so that the baseline reference was the same. Stock ported manifolds only gained less than 2hp. The highest gains he had was 16hp total. That was using WCF full headers, 2.5", and a Brunnel muffler. On the normally aspirated engine, he lost 4 ft/lbs of torque from the low end. The only thread I saw anything like what you state, was an old thread by Dennis who stated with the ported stock exhaust manifolds and a hi-flow cat/muffler, you could gain about 10hp and he states it was a "guess".
I did an article for our local club back then and Travis (1FST2M6) supplied me all the dyno info. Here is the actual dyno for stock ported manifolds: (actually it reads less than 2hp, It only shows 1.5hp gains)

Here is the dyno for the WCF full tuned headers. Notice there is only about an 7.5hp gain and the 4 ft/lbs of torque that is lost. There is no way a ported stock manifold is going to gain as much as a full set of equal length tuned headers.
(Note: This dyno was from his car, These are the normally aspirated runs. I do have the NOS runs that go with these.)

No, you don't "need" to change the "Y" pipe or muffler, But if used, you will have higher gains due to better flow.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 09-03-2003).]

I have used the Sprint manifolds and they, as Oreif says are good for a small gain. I am currently using the WCF shorty headers, similar to the Sprints. The WCF shorty's use a Momen (sp) type clamp to connect the crossover to the header, so if you intend to go Turbo in the future you would have a very difficult time with the shorty's.
The WCF full headers are big and don't leave much room in the engine bay for clearance.
I also like the coating on the WCF headers, sort of a wrinkle finish ceramic.....Paul

Very important... note that the 16hp was in combination with 2.5" pipe and a nice muffler. Headers alone may not be anything close to that on a stock 2.8

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quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Very important... note that the 16hp was in combination with 2.5" pipe and a nice muffler. Headers alone may not be anything close to that on a stock 2.8

Exactly! Everything is taken out of context. Did 1FST2M6 do dyno tests on all manifolds before AND after upgrading his pipes and muffler?? Stock, ported, WCF and Sprint would require him to do at least 8 dyno runs just for manifold differences before and after exhaust upgrades. I did look back at that famous acticle by Lee Brown called 'Engine Energizers'
http://www.fiero.org/text/firedup.txt
and realized I too have taken things out of context. I assumed that porting alone would yeild such gains but now looking back at it and at KFG's and 1FST2M6's dyno results, I can see that where they have big gains they all have less restrictive pipes and mufflers. Which leads me to beleive that you will get at least 8+hp gains provided that you upgrade the rest of the exhaust system.

FIERO V6 DYNO DATA CORRECTED HORSEPOWER

(Approximated from chart) 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 RPM's

Ported Exhaust manifolds 109 124 135 143 139 HP

Installed High-lift cam 103 117 126 135 132 HP

Blueprinted Engine w/Open Exhaust 99 112 120 119 118 HP

Blueprinted Engine w/Stock Exhaust 96 108 113 113 111 HP

Pure Stock Engine w/Stock Exhaust 94 107 110 107 94 HP

I just bought on eBay a header for my 4 banger <IMG src="http://ebay1.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_b106499ec439099b153020b57b96b31a/i-1.JPG"> it is a hooker header. I plan on installing it with a spintek muffler, anybody venture the gain or los factor on that set up? Any concern with powder coating (non-ceramic) before install?

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84 4-banger NB

[This message has been edited by revmikehill (edited 09-03-2003).]

quote Originally posted by LordBoOsT: Did 1FST2M6 do dyno tests on all manifolds before AND after upgrading his pipes and muffler?? Stock, ported, WCF and Sprint would require him to do at least 8 dyno runs just for manifold differences before and after exhaust upgrades. I did look back at that famous acticle by Lee Brown called 'Engine Energizers'

When 1FST2M6 tested the manifolds/headers, the rest of the exhaust was stock. Each run was compared to a baseline. So there were 2 runs with each manifold/header. The 2nd Dyno I posted was the WCF full headers on his car so the baseline is higher.
Actually Herb Adams wrote the article. Lee Brown posted it.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 09-03-2003).]

Right, Herb Adams, my mind is slipping. Herb did prove however that with an open exhaust that the ported stock manifolds did increase 8hp on the dyno.

These are the Headers you want...... Mandrel Bent, Tubualr branch headers.

Mild Steel though, so they dont look so good. But they flow excellent. Rear header is the same. Into to Separate exhaust systems. No crossover, and No cat.
Sounds absolutely excellent....

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Regards,

Paul Taylor, England.
85 GT Notchback, 2.8 V6, 4 speed manual. Custom made Tubular branch exhaust manifolds with true twin 3in exhaust system. No CAT, No EGR. No Crossover pipe. ADS Road Race SuperChip & 160 deg stat. Poly bushes all round. Lowered 2 inches. 16" alloys with 225/45 rubber. 0-60mph in 5.5 sec.

www.fieroforum.co.uk/Paul85gt.htm

quote Originally posted by Paul Taylor: These are the Headers you want...... Mandrel Bent, Tubualr branch headers. Mild Steel though, so they dont look so good. But they flow excellent. Rear header is the same. Into to Separate exhaust systems. No crossover, and No cat. Sounds absolutely excellent....

Paul, Since you mention no crossover, Just curious, Are you using dual O2 sensors or just the one? If dual, What was required to run 2 of them?

Just thought I'd mention that we still have spots open for the KFG header group buy if you are interested.

We have them listed as $395 US with free shipping in North America. I could work with you on shipping overseas.
www.fierogroupbuy.tk

Here is one 1fst2m6 did for plug wires. https://www.fiero.nl/uploads/spiraldyno.jpg

[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 09-03-2003).]

These are my FOCOA headers & Borla

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quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: These are my FOCOA headers & Borla

Your engine LOOKS an awful lot like mine with those headers & Borla More pics at LINK in signature...

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3.4L S/C 87 GT www.fierosound.com
2002/2003 World of Wheels Winner &
Multiple IASCA Stereo Award Winner

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-05-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Paul, Since you mention no crossover, Just curious, Are you using dual O2 sensors or just the one? If dual, What was required to run 2 of them?

The O2 Sensor is on the Rear exhaust only.
Seems to work fine.......

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Regards,

Paul Taylor, England.
85 GT Notchback, 2.8 V6, 4 speed manual. Custom made Tubular branch exhaust manifolds with true twin 3in exhaust system. No CAT, No EGR. No Crossover pipe. ADS Road Race SuperChip & 160 deg stat. Poly bushes all round. Lowered 2 inches. 16" alloys with 225/45 rubber. 0-60mph in 5.5 sec.

www.fieroforum.co.uk/Paul85gt.htm

Can anyone tell me where to locate the 02 sensor?

I think mine is not working, but I can't find it.

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Arn Brown

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Can anyone tell me where to locate the 02 sensor? I think mine is not working, but I can't find it.

It is located near the bottom of the "Y" pipe about 4" below where the to sides meet. (It's closer to the bottom of the car than the top) It is pointing towards the passenger side of the car. (Assuming this is a V-6 were talking about.)

Its on the other side of this pipe where this arrow is pointing.

Thanks for the help. I get in there tonight

quote Originally posted by fierosound: Your engine LOOKS an awful lot like mine with those headers & Borla More pics at LINK in signature...

Doesn't all born babies look alike?

I had my manifolds rewelded, ported and shaved. Together with open exhaust (deleted muffler) and open-air filter it might not gain much HP but it's response is much better and more fun to drive... + plus the sound I have now should be illegal!

Paul Taylor: I think with your exhaust setup your neighbours will hate you! Call me when houses are for sale

Alex4mula that engine looks awesome!!!!

quote Originally posted by B1Man: Alex4mula that engine looks awesome!!!!

Actually, that's MY pic that I took of MY engine. The headers and exhaust really do their job now that I've installed a Vortech Supercharger. See LINK in sig.

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3.4L S/C 87 GT www.fierosound.com
2002/2003 World of Wheels Winner &
Multiple IASCA Stereo Award Winner

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 09-06-2003).]

Thanks B1Man. Yeah is his picture but my engine looked exatly like that before going in (got me a trophy at Daytona that year ). Of course Fierosound cars deserves good compliments. It is a very nice Fiero. Here are some of my pics;

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