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scanning for KR on a 3800?? by LoW_KeY
Started on: 09-01-2003 08:04 PM
Replies: 7
Last post by: Darth Fiero on 09-02-2003 12:01 AM
LoW_KeY
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Report this Post09-01-2003 08:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LoW_KeYSend a Private Message to LoW_KeYDirect Link to This Post
Ok I would imagine you plug into the cigarette lighter then what? just curious

just want to double check some things when I get the scanner later this week.

------------------
-KC
88 5spd 3800 SC Formula
3.25, WCF Headers, 1.9 rockers, 160 t-stat, NGK TR6's, TB spacer, Custom ECM, 50 NX, 100% polly

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86 FIERO GT
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Report this Post09-01-2003 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86 FIERO GTSend a Private Message to 86 FIERO GTDirect Link to This Post
sorry gotta ask what is KR?

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N*,13" stoppers, 18s, completely rebuilt

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TK
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Report this Post09-01-2003 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TKSend a Private Message to TKDirect Link to This Post
Well, you might want to be a bit more specific.

You need a scanner set to the engine/ECM you have and then look for Knock Retard, look at the number, then ......

TK

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TK
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Report this Post09-01-2003 09:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TKSend a Private Message to TKDirect Link to This Post

TK

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Look at this post, do some WOT runs all the way up to redline (and going over 5500-6000 isn't worth it.) The following is based on 91-92 octane oxygenated fuel. You may do better.

You will likely see KR in the 3000-4500 range. It's not uncommon to see nothing above or below that.

2 degrees is fine. 4 is Ok. Above 4 you will start feeling surging in the power. Beyond 6 you need to make some choices to get below 4 (or even down to 2).

1. Get cooler air from somewhere.
2. Reduce the advance in the right column of the spark table to get it under 4 degrees KR in the affected area.
3. Increase the octane of the gas (and octane boosters that come in a bottle don't work).
4. Add an intercooler.
5. Add water or water/alchy injection. Aquamist comes to mind.

Don't be surprised if you see knock all the way up to redline but 3800 have peak in the 4000 RPM range.

If you are seeing more than 8, you have to figure out what is going on. It could be false knock from something hitting in the cradle, loose KS up to real live knock (bad juju).

Of course, if you are lucky and don't have any knock, you can consider maybe even bump the advance up some.

TK

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LoW_KeY
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Report this Post09-01-2003 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LoW_KeYSend a Private Message to LoW_KeYDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 86 FIERO GT:

sorry gotta ask what is KR?

knock retard

thanks again TK, yeah I meant using a scanner and what are the exact procedures required to find it

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TK
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Report this Post09-01-2003 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TKSend a Private Message to TKDirect Link to This Post
Depends on the scanner, but just page through the data screens. It's *usually* after Spark Advance.

What ECM are you using?

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LoW_KeY
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Report this Post09-01-2003 11:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LoW_KeYSend a Private Message to LoW_KeYDirect Link to This Post
95 ecm

believe one of my dads friends has a scanner so I'm hoping that works, would like to see where I'm at. Although when I was watching the temp it didn't rise high at all.

Everything I've read over on the GP forum said I should be set, running rockers/headers would allow for the 3.25 pulley, but maybe tomorrow I'll find out and try to figure out that little scanner doo jigger

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post09-02-2003 12:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageSend a Private Message to Darth FieroDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LoW_KeY:

95 ecm

believe one of my dads friends has a scanner so I'm hoping that works, would like to see where I'm at. Although when I was watching the temp it didn't rise high at all.

Everything I've read over on the GP forum said I should be set, running rockers/headers would allow for the 3.25 pulley, but maybe tomorrow I'll find out and try to figure out that little scanner doo jigger

Obviously you will need to plug the scan tool into the cig lighter and the ALDL connector next to the cig lighter behind the panel (assuming you wired it up to the PCM). What brand scan tool are you using? If you are using a OTC/MAC/MATCO Enhanced Monitor, Monitor 4000E, or Monitor 4000 Enhanced, the data items are listed alphabetically under the Datastream, Deluxe Display menus and you simply need to only scroll up or down to find KNOCK RETARD DEGREES. Should give you a number readout of OO normally without knock.

Beware that many other things can cause the PCM to read "false" knock such as noisy valvetrain or an exhaust systems that has loose parts or broken baffles in the muffler. Depends how sensitive your knock sensor(s) are.

Like the person before said, you want to stay under 4 degrees, I like to see none at all but when you start pushing these engines it is kinda hard not to see a little. Note the RPM you get KR at so you can tell the person who does your chip to pull out timing only at that RPM point or points.

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1987 Fiero Coupe 3800 Series II Intercooled Turbo (12.79et @ 106.6mph)
1987 Trans Am GTA 5.7L Superram 4L60-E (13.1et @ 109mph)
1985 Fiero SE 2.8 (soon to have an L36)

Fiero-related Conversions Performed:
1985 SE 3800 Series 1 SC 4T60-E
1987 Coupe 3800 Series II Turbocharged 4T60-E
1987 SE 3.4 TDC 5-speed
1984 Coupe SBC V8 non-OD to 4T60 OD swap, electric power steering install
1985 SE 3800 Series II Supercharged 4T60-E

http://dtcc.cz28.com

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