Please.... Like the ones on the new Impala's.... what a huge friggin improvment over the old steel junk. These new cradles they use are rigid and light, I love it. Im thinking alot about making one, but I need a Tig welder......

Anybody got a good cheap one?

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02' 3800SC Poly, Koni, 17" 245-40's, "RWD" V6SC>V8 ;)

That is a really good idea. But if you get inspired do a space frame.

could the impala craddle can be fitted in a fiero??

DreX

if you make one dont forget to make a few more

It would even be cooler if it was Stainless Steel!!! Woo Hoo!!! It would match just about everything else under my hood perfectly!

Stainless Steel = HEAVY

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It may be a bit heavier, but sure looks nice, and not really any heavier than what's in there already.

Good thought.

How much does a stock cradle weigh?
What is the potential weightloss?

How bout the caddy cradles? I think some people are using those.

Just polish the aluminum

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i'm guessing the k member by it's self only weighs about 50 pounds.

Ya, but when you reinforce it if you're doing a swap, it gets way heavier. That would rock if someone made one out of 6061 T-6. There's a huge salvage yard here that has buttloads of that stuff. Hmmmmm....

Ya, but when you reinforce it if you're doing a swap......

????????

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1988 Coupe
327 v8

quote Originally posted by tripple8: Ya, but when you reinforce it if you're doing a swap...... ????????

"Ya, but when you reinforce it if you're doing a swap, it gets way heavier."

You reinforce the cradle when swapping engines, normally. I'm specifically referring to the N* swap, where you are required to move the forward transverse brace a bit more forward, and you usually use a piece of rectangle tube that is thicker. I was merely stating that the cradle gains weight as you modify it. But if you stayed with the 2.8, you could swap to the new aluminum cradle and there would be no other weight issues. But let me ask you a question: How many people are going to install a very expensive aluminum cradle on their Fiero and retain their hapless 2.8 or 2.5? So I made the assumption that anyone switching to an aluminum cradle would also likely do an engine swap.

That would rock if someone made one out of 6061 T-6. There's a huge salvage yard here that has buttloads of that stuff."

Hell, make a jig with a real straight 84-87 cradle and build an aluminum cradle fcrom there. Shweeeet. You could do a N* swap, use the manual tranny, and actually lose weight. Not to mention the fact that the CG would improve, especially when you move the battery up[ front; you could be real close to 50/50 and 375HP with a set of Alan's cams/springs....

LOL........I think someone has ALOT more time on his hands than he needs. While you're at it, why not do the whole thing in Aluminum.........lOL

Phil

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87 FIERO GT 2.8 5spd
0-60 in 6.8 seconds!
87 FIERO CPE 2.5 5spd
86 FIERO SE 2.5 AUTO
87 FIERO GT 2.8 4SPD
84 FIERO SE 2.5 4SPD
If you found my advice helpful, please take the time to give me a positive rating. Thanks

How about the Quad4 engine swap guys
--Bryson

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88 Fiero GT Quad4 Turbo...It has begun
88 VW GTI 16v
90 Olds Calais International H.O.
88 Fiero Formula

Why not a tubular cradle??? Even it was made out of steel I think it may be lighter. Titanium or aluminum?

Were you taking about a tubular cradle the whole time?

quote Originally posted by MNFiero3800: Why not a tubular cradle??? Even it was made out of steel I think it may be lighter. Titanium or aluminum? Were you taking about a tubular cradle the whole time?

Naw, I was thinking of billet.

Titanium would be cost prohibitive and maybe not the best for the area of the car. I was thinking box (extruded) aluminum (6061 T-6). The current cradle is steel tubular, so that's what we are trying to get away from. I think you could save 40 lbs with a remake of the cradle.

Maybe using smaller tubular steel, and bracing it more? What about chromemoly tubing?

James Z

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- 2.8v6, 5spd
- no cat, msd ignition/coil, K&N

I thought I' remembered seeing something about this before. Don't know if it will help any, but here it is: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/037053.html

On the tubular one this company makes one, but I don't remember seeing anybody post anything good or bad about actually buying anything from the place, but here's the link: http://www.hi-techdev.com/suspension.htm

f-stop

I was going to just back away slowly from this thread, but...

If you want to save weight, you're in the wrong area! A pair of struts & springs with the knuckles back there weighs more than the whole cradle! I just had a cradle acid stripped (now THAT's a shiny bit!) and I can carry the whole thing on 2 fingers. Put the suspension back on, and it's hard to lift!

Don't wanna be a party pooper here... but check it out... you're barking up the wrong tree (in other words - find something that's actually heavy to lighten up! ).

quote Originally posted by watts: I was going to just back away slowly from this thread, but... If you want to save weight, you're in the wrong area! A pair of struts & springs with the knuckles back there weighs more than the whole cradle! I just had a cradle acid stripped (now THAT's a shiny bit!) and I can carry the whole thing on 2 fingers. Put the suspension back on, and it's hard to lift! Don't wanna be a party pooper here... but check it out... you're barking up the wrong tree (in other words - find something that's actually heavy to lighten up! ).

I've got my cradle 1/2 done for the mod to accept my N* and it's getting heavy. Again, as I previously asked, would a person install an aluminum cradle with a stock 2.8? probably not, but they might do it for a 350, N*, or any other swap. When people do motor swaps they need to reinforce the cradle, especially if they go with a heavy tranny like a 4T80E, so the weight savings would be noticable. Once a jig was fabricated to accept the points to the 2 front pivot mounts and the rear 2 upbolts, it would be fairly easy to fab.

It would also be interesting to fab some of the aforementioned parts that you listed from alumnum, probably billet.

My buddy offered to make one for me out of tubular crome moly.

He could weld aluminum too. How much would you pay for one?

I'd rather have the steel one though.

quote Originally posted by I'm Back: It would also be interesting to fab some of the aforementioned parts that you listed from alumnum, probably billet.

If what Watts said earlier about the knuckles is true how much weight savings do you think would result from alum. knuckles. etc. And, are coilovers much lighter than stock springs/struts. I'm very interested in getting my car below 2500 lbs over time. John

[This message has been edited by 2fn4wrds (edited 08-24-2003).]

quote Originally posted by 2fn4wrds: If what Watts said earlier about the knuckles is true how much weight savings do you think would result from alum. knuckles. etc. And, are coilovers much lighter than stock springs/struts. I'm very interested in getting my car below 2500 lbs over time. John [This message has been edited by 2fn4wrds (edited 08-24-2003).]

Caddies spindle assys are aluminum. I think there is some weight to be shaved back there.

I have to diagree with Watts, the cradle is a great place to loose some pounds. The stock cradle aint that light. But the aluminun cradle is. I also agree with I'm Back, after you do some mods to the heavy stock cradle, it just gets even heavier.
Watts you must have some strong fingers.LOL
I do think that the bearing cariers are very heavy too.
I never got the two cradles on a scale but I can tell you that the aluminum cradle is MUCH lighter than the modified 88 cradle.

Aluminum would be cool, but it would be a LOT of work. A good idea might be to make a modular/universal cradle design. Ever seen CalKid's bolt together '88 cradle? Makes transmission R&R a breeze.

So, build an aluminum cralde. Design the side rails so that they have all the suspension pickups necessary for both early and '88 suspension. Possibly even add a 2nd alternate pickup for the forward end of the '88 trailing arm, a couple of inches up from the stok one to help with dragstrip launches. Put mount locations in the 2 X-members for both standard location and 2"-to-the-left engine location, as well as typical Q4 and 4.9 engine mount bosses.

Make the forward X-member removable like the left rail so that the standard cradle member can be swapped out for a Northstar compatible member. Design the rear x-member to clear a 4T80E without mods.

Any othe design features?

Which Caddy knuckles are aluminum? Must be pretty modern, cause they were iron until pretty recently. '98 and newer W-body front knuckles are aluminum, however.

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'87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.

'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow

And you don't need a TIG welder. I weld aluminum with my MIG machine using 100% argon (versus the 75-25 argon-CO2 mix). But I would really like a push-pull, or even a spool-gun for welding aluminum. My Lincoln MIG machine will "bird nest" every now & then when working aluminum.

I have the resources to fabricate a tubular cradle, and will probably do just that whenever I get around to installing a Northstar. (Gotta get me a N* drivetrain 1st).

quote Originally posted by Will: Aluminum would be cool, but it would be a LOT of work. A good idea might be to make a modular/universal cradle design. Ever seen CalKid's bolt together '88 cradle? Makes transmission R&R a breeze. So, build an aluminum cralde. Design the side rails so that they have all the suspension pickups necessary for both early and '88 suspension. Possibly even add a 2nd alternate pickup for the forward end of the '88 trailing arm, a couple of inches up from the stok one to help with dragstrip launches. Put mount locations in the 2 X-members for both standard location and 2"-to-the-left engine location, as well as typical Q4 and 4.9 engine mount bosses. Make the forward X-member removable like the left rail so that the standard cradle member can be swapped out for a Northstar compatible member. Design the rear x-member to clear a 4T80E without mods. Any othe design features?

"Which Caddy knuckles are aluminum? Must be pretty modern, cause they were iron until pretty recently. '98 and newer W-body front knuckles are aluminum, however."

I had a 99 Deville that used aluminum spindles. I'm calling the pieces that hold the bearing, have the tie rod end mounts, and insert into the strut the spindles. They are light!

I would love to fab an aluminum cradle..doubt I ever will though. The bolt-off side sounds awesome.

Seems like a bolt off side would add weight.
I just might look into Ford T-Bird rear end for aluminum bearing cariers. The front wheel drive ones wont work on 88's

Not necessarily. Besides, making it out of aluminum would remove weight.

While we're re-engineering the cradle, we might as well correct the stock control arm pivot points so that they no longer have pro-squat geometry, and correct the toe link pickup to ease the bump-steer problem.

Humm
I have a stripped cradle.. anyone have a scale?

I have a stock 88, modified 88 (for my 3.5), modified 87 (also for my 3.5) and the extuded aluminum Impala cradle. I will find out how much the difference is soon.
I have never done a N* but from pics it looks like the mods for the N* are the same as the S*. The cradle did get a little heavier after the S* mods.
I think the stock 88 cradle is heavier than the pre88's.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: I have a stripped cradle.. anyone have a scale?

In case you're semi-serious, you can get a ballpark weight by standing (outside) on a bathroom scale while holding the cradle. Note the reading, then weigh yourself (without cradle), and subtract that from the previous reading.

You probably already thought of this, sorry. I used to keep an old bathroom scale in the garage, just for such "I wonder how much that weighs," moments. Not super-accurate, but good enough to pacify the "wish I knew" blues!

I stood on the bathroom scale today and got my weight then picked the cradles one at a time. the modded 87=over 60 pounds, the modded 88 was 54 pound, and the aluminum cradle was 34 pounds. I did not weigh the stock 88 yet I want to clean off all the dirt first. All the weights were from comlpetly striped down cradles.
So the aluminum cradle is about half the weight of a modded 87 cradle.
I must say it is alot of work just to shave sbout 20 pounds. But I want to do it for the looks to

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: I stood on the bathroom scale today and got my weight then picked the cradles one at a time. the modded 87=over 60 pounds, the modded 88 was 54 pound, and the aluminum cradle was 34 pounds. I did not weigh the stock 88 yet I want to clean off all the dirt first. All the weights were from comlpetly striped down cradles. So the aluminum cradle is about half the weight of a modded 87 cradle. I must say it is alot of work just to shave sbout 20 pounds. But I want to do it for the looks to

Was the aluminum cradle one from a GM car, or did you fab it? It sounds as if it's from a GM car, if so, a homemade aluminum cradle could be done for about 20-25 lbs with beef-ups for the swap I believe. That's 40lbs lighter than the 60 some that someone posted, which is substantial that far back (arm). Not to mention, it would likely be stronger.

anyone know anybody with a CNC machine?

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--Adam--
IM AOL: FieroGT5speed
"Your dog certainly has a surpised look on his face"
"that because your looking at his butt"
"Oh...well then hes certainly not going to like that treat i just fed him"

me.

quote Originally posted by GTFiero1: anyone know anybody with a CNC machine?

Can a home made cradle be lighter and stronger than a late Impala SS extruded aluminum cradle?
Just for comparison I put my battery on the scale and it weighed 36pounds. That is more than the Impala cradle. The cradle also has to hold the suspension rigedly in place as well as the engine. It seems easyer to mod the Impala cradle for a Fiero N*/S* conversion than to start from scratch. The GM aluminum cradle is very sturdy and lihgt so I am sure it can handle the Fiero N*/S* conversions. If you want to make it lighter than you could cut out some holes in nonstressed parts of the GM cradle. Keep in mind that this cradle was made with the latest technology for the lightest and strongest cradle that is cost afective to make, and hadle the power of a 3800.
By putting this cradle in my 88 I will take off 20 pounds, then move the battery to the front and take off 36 more pounds and put it in the front. Takeing about 60 pounds off the rear end sounds good to me. Then factor in the weight saveings from putting in the S*. That could take off a total of about 100 pounds off the rear end

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Can a home made cradle be lighter and stronger than a late Impala SS extruded aluminum cradle? Just for comparison I put my battery on the scale and it weighed 36pounds. That is more than the Impala cradle. The cradle also has to hold the suspension rigedly in place as well as the engine. It seems easyer to mod the Impala cradle for a Fiero N*/S* conversion than to start from scratch. The GM aluminum cradle is very sturdy and lihgt so I am sure it can handle the Fiero N*/S* conversions. If you want to make it lighter than you could cut out some holes in nonstressed parts of the GM cradle. Keep in mind that this cradle was made with the latest technology for the lightest and strongest cradle that is cost afective to make, and hadle the power of a 3800. By putting this cradle in my 88 I will take off 20 pounds, then move the battery to the front and take off 36 more pounds and put it in the front. Takeing about 60 pounds off the rear end sounds good to me. Then factor in the weight saveings from putting in the S*. That could take off a total of about 100 pounds off the rear end

Yea, if the modded Fiero cradle weighs 60+ lbs, I think a Fiero cradle can be made weighing 20lbs. that's what I was referring to when I said I believe 40lbs could be saved (lost). If I was going 3.8SC, which is sweet, I would go with a stock aluminum cradle and retrofit, but for a N* it makes more sense to start from scratch.

My S* bolts right up to it. That means that a N* will too. As far as I can tell the N* and S* require the same mods to the cradle.
With the Impala cradle you can bolt on a N*, S*, 3800, or just about anything.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 08-30-2003).]