I've been looking for some Pennzoil or Quaker State Synchromesh Oil but haven't been able to find any. I've checked with all the local dealers and none of them carry it. Does anybody know if I can order it from anywhere? I really don't want to go to a GM dealer for their synchromesh.

What do you have against the GM Synchromesh? Honestly, it's the only synchromesh I've been able to find. I haven't found any of the other brands locally.

I just think GM's synchromesh is horribly overpriced compared to Pennzoil's product. One local dealership quoted me $16.99/quart.

I will probably get flamed but I have run Mobile 1 5w-30 in my transmission for the last 3 years & can't feel any difference. Seems to be doing ok in the wifes car too.

I love syncromesh. Has to be the only thing I've ever gotten cheaper in Canada.

I paid 17.00 for 3 liters or about 5.00 CDN a bottle.

Pontiac dealer gidn't have a clue, went to the Chevy dealer. It's P/N #12345349 but I can't remember if it was changed to #10953465. I paid $25.41 total including 6% tax last year for (3) 1 liter bottles. Smoothed my 85GT 4 speed right out.

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Notchbacks Rule
84 Coupe(parts car)
85GT(show car)
87SE Gold(project car)
87SE Silver(daily driver)
88Coupe (daily driver)
88Formula (daily driver)

i got synchromesh at my local auto zone . works great and id never go back to anything else

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Please please pleeeaaasseee stop using engine oil in transmissions. The two applications are totally different. The assholes at Haynes Chilton and many other places are full of crap on this one. (I've delt with Haynes directly... They don't know half as much as they pretend...)

1. Engine oil IS NOT the same as the original fluid.

GM list the fluid as "5W-30 Manual Transmission Fluid." From everything I have seen this is actually closer to the GL4 gear oil specification. The car rags somehow assumed (made an ass out of you and me) that it ment 5W-30 engine oil..... bad assumtion.

While you may get away with Mobil 1 synthetic... you will find that Mobil would tell you not to use it in your transmission. It's not made for that. Mobil does not currently offer a fluid that is compatible with most trasmissions. (They only offer a synthetic GL5, which is not compatible with most car and light truck manual transmissions let alone Fiero.)

2. Engine oil IS NOT the same as Synchromesh fluid. Not even close.

Synchromesh oil is specifically designed to work in practically all GM FWD transmissions and many in line units. (Fiero manual is an altered FWD tranny...)

Before someone asks... GM specifically states that ATF is NOT to be used in the 5 speed transmissions. I would expect the same for the 4 speed units.

Before someone asks... GL5 Gear Oil MUST NEVER be used in most car and light truck transmissions. GL5 Will damage many of these units. GL5 contains things like Sulpher that will ruin brass and plastic parts in many transmissions.

(In general)Many cars call for GL4 transmission oil. This oil MUST NOT be replaced by GL5, motor oil, or ATF, even tho motor/ATF oils may have similar SAE weights.

As far as I can tell... the orginal oil in GM manual transmissions was actually a GL4 oil. GM now recomends the Synchromesh in just about everything. Again, Synchromesh was specifically designed to address several issues that are addressed in various TSB documents sent to the dealer network. As thick as GM can be at times, this fluid was designed to address specific customer complaints.

Pennzoil/Quaker State is one company. Any competant P/QS dealer should be able to get the P/QS Synchromesh fluid. If you can use allot of it, you can even order 5 gallon pails on line. The 5 gallon work out to about $3US a quart last time I looked. (It's been awhile.) If you have freinds it might behoove you to look into a single bucket and pour it to quarts....

If you can't find it in parts stores... which is a bit queer... then find the regional lubricant supplier. The regional guy may only want to sell a case but they will often sell to the "public." They just don't want to sell to 5000 of the public...

Does anyone have the P/QS part number for the quarts? I have some notes about this in my cave but I don't have the P/QS SKU/UPC codes... (There is also an online dealer for the bucket in my cave...)

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Nobody loves me. Everybody hates me. Guess I'll just go eat worms.

Thanks for the part number. gmpartsdirect.com carries it for $5.65.

While I hate to argue with you and I do fully agree that syncromesh is better. GM did reccomend engine oil in at least the 85 manual tranny's. I would not make this claim without evidence, so here it is. This is page 2-10 of the do it yourself manual. I think that this is where a lot of people get the idea that engine oil is what to use.

Now is that for the 4-speed, or 5-speed, or both?

It's very common for Japanese car manufacturers to use 5W-30 engine oil in their gearboxes. Isuzu made some gearboxes to be used in the Fiero - it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they use 5W-30 engine oil.

When it comes to manual gearboxes, different manufacturers use different things. GM uses their stuff, I can't speak for all Japanese cars, but I know that a lot of them use 5W-30 engine oil. Earlier VWs used a special Hypoid gear oil (hypoid oil has a very distinct strong smell, and a very dark colour to it), and other gearboxes are designed to use 80W-90.

I'd normally say ask the manufacturer, but when you get two different answers out of the same manufacturer (someone has some evidence in print, someone else has completely contrary evidence when they ask a dealer...), I guess you're stuck.

I've seen several threads talking about this in the past - some people say synchromesh is the oil to use in a gearbox, and if not, you're doomed. Let me ask this question, since I don't believe it's been asked before. Specifically speaking about Fiero manual gearboxes, does anyone have ANY evidence that 5W-30 harms seals or other internal parts, or have any evidence that 5W-30 reduces the life of the gearbox?

I have been using Mobil 1 5w-30 in my 84 SE 4 speed for two years. I was having problems shifting and set out to resolve the problem one Saturday. I drained the old oil and filled it with Mobil 1, and flushed out the clutch fluid and went with Vavoline synthetic brake fluid. The end result was much better, but still gets a little balky at times. I have put around 7 to 8000 miles on the car with this setup and haven't had any problems.

This is not to say that I may have problems coming up from doing this, and I'd like to go to syncromesh, but I'm waiting a bit more to be sure that problems don't crop up from this. I remember the ATF threads with some people saying this was the hot set up and then having problems.

Is there a way to flush out the oil before filling the tranny with syncromesh?

ATF in a manual gearbox? Never....this is a no-no. ATF only belongs in automatic transmissions it was designed for.

Same goes for power steering fluid - some designs use ATF for power steering, but many DON'T. A lot of people just automatically assume ATF goes in the power steering, and then start experiencing failures down the road.

Does anyone know how much a Getrag 5 speed (88) holds, I filled with syncromesh but i think i may of overfilled....

quote Originally posted by Fiero31337: Thanks for the part number. gmpartsdirect.com carries it for $5.65.

Unless you don't live anywhere near a Chevy dealer I wouldn't go this route. See what the final cost is from GMPD on this. Even though it seems your price for 3 liters is $16.95 + shipping, GMPD makes their profit on the shipping. Knowing their rates you may end up paying $18.00 for shipping unless they consider this one item and then it's only $9.95. Or buy several items (dew wipes are 1/2 dealer price) at once and then the shipping becomes reasonable.

GM had a service bulletin out which said to switch to GM Syncromesh trans fluid to correct hard shifting when cold. Several other auto makers, such as Honda, use GM Syncromesh to cure gear grinding. It's great stuff, use it in my car! Spend the extra $ and get something good!

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James Essar
88 Coupe 3.2L V6 With NX Nitrous

60* V6 Power! Bring it V8's
SAVE THE SHAUN

DSM guys are using GM synchromesh in their trannies too.. BG Synchroshift is a close second, but thats even more expensive (36bux for 3 quarts)

These guys put their trannies thru hell and back. I'd assume they are pretty good at finding decent tranny oils considdering the ammount of trannies they go thru

James Z

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- 2.8v6, 5spd
- no cat, msd ignition/coil, K&N

[This message has been edited by SplineZ (edited 08-03-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Lambykin: ATF in a manual gearbox? Never....this is a no-no. ATF only belongs in automatic transmissions it was designed for. Same goes for power steering fluid - some designs use ATF for power steering, but many DON'T. A lot of people just automatically assume ATF goes in the power steering, and then start experiencing failures down the road.

Actually the vast majority of Ford gearboxes recommend ATF as the ONLY fluid to be used in their manual trannys. I found that hard to believe as well since I was always brought up that gear oil goes in gearboxes and rear ends, and ATF only goes in auto trannys. Did a clutch on a friends mustang and ATF drained out of the gearbox. When I called the Ford dealership and spoke with the service tech he confirmed that ATF was used at the factory and is the only recommended lubricant for use in their gearboxes.

quote Originally posted by RacinRob: While I hate to argue with you and I do fully agree that syncromesh is better. GM did reccomend engine oil in at least the 85 manual tranny's. I would not make this claim without evidence, so here it is. This is page 2-10 of the do it yourself manual. I think that this is where a lot of people get the idea that engine oil is what to use.

YUCK..... That explains a few things..... Thanks.

At any rate... I wouldn't recomend using engine oil in the transmission when there is something much better that is made just for this job.

GM released at least two TSBs for the FWD/Fiero 5 speed transmissions. One each for Muncie and Isuzu. Both say use the Synchromesh. (The TSB numbers are in my cave.) These TSBs supercede both the owners manual and the shop books.

The Engine oil won't hurt seals. It is probably ok for the bearings and gears. Where it runs into trouble is with the synchronizers. Engine oil can be so slick (or stiff depending on temp and formula) that the synchro's can't do their job right. ATF can cause the same problems. Besides making it hard to shift, synchro problems can damage, even ruin, the tranny.

It's funny in a way.... People gripe about the price of the Synchromesh fluid but think nothing of paying $4-5 or more a quart for Mobil 1 for the engine... You change engine oil way more often than transmission oil. The service interval on the transmission is what? 25,000? 30,000? The majority of people that actually change it only do it every couple years at best. Most owners don't change it in the entire life of the car.

Some car makers do call for other oils... Use what they tell you.

With 80+ weight oils... make sure you watch out for the API service class!!!!! GL-5 oil must not be installed in transmissions that use GL-4. (Most of the cars I've seen use GL-4 but not all.) While the API Weight is often the same for the two oils the formula is not and using the wrong one can ruin the transmission.

Ogre, ever hear of this one? Back in the late 70's & early 80's we used to run gear oil in the transmissions of our Camaro's. If memory serves me, I think it was 90wt. If we had hard shifting, we used to add a bottle of GM positraction additive. Seemed to be the all purpose cure all.

Thanks for the info. - I was one of the people who was using 5W30 motor oil in my transmission. I'm off to Kragan, AutoZone, NAPA, or any place the carries the synchro. oil.
b

How much fluid does it hold? I'm going to GM to buy some today.

The 4spd takes about 2.5 liters. I am not sure about the 5 spds.

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85GT 2.9 4spd MSD Everything, Big Cam, No Cat and Nitrous. Nawzz babeee!!!!
www.david.westcoastfieros.com

It says right on the getrag dipstick use 5-W30

But anyway, how much (quarts or liters?) does the Getrag take? Im probably going to switch to GM syncromesh and put in some of the Lucas oil stabilizer with it (especially cince my tranny leaks just a little bit)

oh...and what color is GM syncromesh?

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--Adam--
1987 Blue GT 5-speed
IM AOL: FieroGT5speed

This is one of those "forget anything you heard and do the right thing".
I used Mobil 1 for 4-5 years (88 getrag) until I changed to syncromesh. What a difference! I would pay $20/qrt for how good it works. Doit and you won't regret it

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quote Originally posted by GTFiero1: It says right on the getrag dipstick use 5-W30 But anyway, how much (quarts or liters?) does the Getrag take? Im probably going to switch to GM syncromesh and put in some of the Lucas oil stabilizer with it (especially cince my tranny leaks just a little bit) oh...and what color is GM syncromesh?

bump