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Switch 4speed to 5speed... by Challe
Started on: 07-08-2003 06:15 AM
Replies: 4
Last post by: iluvmacs on 07-08-2003 01:50 PM
Challe
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Report this Post07-08-2003 06:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ChalleSend a Private Message to ChalleDirect Link to This Post
Ladies & Gentlemen,
I own a '86 SE 4speed manual, and wonder:
Have you switched the original 4-gearbox, to the 5speed gearbox?

Is it a big operation? It doesn't seem impossible since there was a 5speed avalible for the same engine.

Are there other GM 5speeds that is possible to use?

Best Regards
/Charles

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tesmith66
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Report this Post07-08-2003 06:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for tesmith66Send a Private Message to tesmith66Direct Link to This Post
Here is a write-up I did on swapping in the Isuzu 5 speed:

To swap in an Isuzu 5 speed here is what you will need:
Isuzu 5 speed (duh!)
Isuzu shift and select cables
5 speed shifter
Clutch and pressure plate for 4 speed or Getrag (If installing behind V6. For 4 cyl. use stock Isuzu clutch)
Throwout bearing for Isuzu
Shifter console trim plate with the 5 speed pattern on it (Rodney Dickman sells a sticker to do the same thing.)

The 4 speed slave cylinder will bolt directly to the Isuzu bracket. Use the VSS and the driven gear from the 4 speed. On the 84 and 85 4 speed cars, the reverse light wiring has to be run from the console to the tranny switch. On the 86 cars, the wiring is already back there by the VSS, just plug it in. The axles are the same on all manual trannies, so they will go right in. Fill the 5 speed with either 5W-30 motor oil or GM (Pennzoil) Synchromesh (STF) ONLY - DO NOT use gear oil or ATF.

On V6 cars, the only thing you have to watch out for is the throttle cable at the throttle body. The Isuzu cables will interfere with the throttle at that point and cause it to stick open (NOT GOOD). I zip-tied mine to the crankcase vent tube and ran them under the intake tube. It's a tight fit, but it works and looks stock.

A few things:

I had the flywheel resurfaced and installed it without shims. I would recommend using a shim equal in thickness to the amount of material removed from the flywheel ONLY if they had to remove a substantial amount (maybe .025" or more.) I DO NOT know where to get shims.

Inspect the clutch fork. They can get deformed and pitted and generally chewed up if not properly cared for. If it looks bad, it will have to be replaced.

If your car has the stamped steel clutch arm, replace it with a cast iron one. The steel ones crack. The Fiero Store has the cast iron replacements.

Inspect the bushings for the clutch fork shaft. If they are worn, the clutch won't disengage fully. The Fiero Store sells the bushings and Rodney Dickman sells the tool needed.

Unless the slave cylinder is in grade A #1 Government inspected tip-top shape, replace it. I used the AutoZone cast iron replacement. I have not had any problems with it.

Make sure the Master cylinder is good. 'Nuff said on that.

For some weird, unknown cosmic reason, some aftermarket masters have a banjo that is too short. You can either re-use the old one or use a 5/16-18 coupling nut and two hex nuts to make the pushrod adjustable to adjust pedal height. (1 - 1-1/2" higher than brake pedal) Remove the pushrod and straighten it (I cannot believe how badly bent these things get), cut it in half, thread both ends and reassemble it with the coupling nut using a hex nut on either side as jam nuts. Rodney Dickman sells an adjustable banjo if you don’t want to cut yours.

Make sure the pushrod (banjo) at the pedal is straight and the loop is up. Make sure there is no play at the bushing. I used Chrysler door pin bushings from HELP! to tighten mine up.

Get a steel pedal. If you have an aluminum (factory) pedal, it's bent. If you just straightened it, it will bend again. The Fiero Store has these. The part that bends is the U-shaped piece the banjo attaches to.

The bleeding procedure: Oh boy. A lot of passion and debate has gone into this one. Here's my method. It always works for me.

Here's what you'll need.

Hand vacuum pump with a brake bleeder attachment (I used a Mightyvac)
13mm 6 point(must be 6 point!) deep well socket
12" extension
ratchet handle
13mm box-end wrench
1 Qt. new brake fluid
Teflon thread tape

Procedure:

1. Using the ratchet, extension and socket, remove the bleeder valve from the slave cylinder.

2. Thoroughly clean the valve (especially the bleed hole) and wrap the threads with thread tape. DO NOT cover the bleed hole with the tape. Tape the threads only. This will prevent air from getting sucked back in past the threads.

3. Reinstall the bleeder (make sure the threads in the slave cylinder are clean) and tighten it lightly. It should be closed, but not too tight to turn with a wrench.

4. Put the box end of the wrench on the bleeder valve in a position that makes it easy to open and close the valve.

5. Install the vacuum pump per the brake bleeding instructions.

6. Apply all the vacuum you can.

7. Remove master cylinder cap and top off with fresh fluid.

8. Crack bleeder valve just enought to get the vacuum to pull fluid and air.

9. As the tube fills with fluid, you will see billions of tiny bubbles. Keep a good vacuum on the pump, and keep the master cylinder topped off.

10. When all of the bubbles are gone, grab the clutch arm and pull it towards the slave cylinder. This will push the piston in to the cylinder. When you do this a bunch of air will come out of the bleeder valve.

11. Repeat step 10 until no more air appears, and the piston refuses to go back into the cylinder easily. Remember to keep the vacuum pumped up and the master cylinder topped off.

12. When moving the clutch arm produces no more air and all of the play has been removed from the cylinder, close the bleeder valve with the wrench and cap off the master cylinder. You may have to remove some fluid to get it to the "FULL" mark.

13. Remove the vacuum pump and wrench (be careful with the fluid in the hose) and tighten the bleeder valve with the socket.

Feel free to PM or email me if you have any more questions.

Good luck!

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GTDude
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Report this Post07-08-2003 07:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GTDudeDirect Link to This Post
Almost the exact same thing goes for the getrag 5spd.

Phil

------------------
87 FIERO GT 2.8 5spd
0-60 in 6.8 seconds!
87 FIERO CPE 2.5 5spd
86 FIERO SE 2.5 AUTO
87 FIERO GT 2.8 4SPD
If you found my advice helpful, please take the time to give me a positive rating. Thanks

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Challe
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Report this Post07-08-2003 07:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ChalleDirect Link to This Post
Very fast reply, thank you!

I'm going to sit down and read it thru right now.

Regards

/Challe

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iluvmacs
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Report this Post07-08-2003 01:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for iluvmacsClick Here to visit iluvmacs's HomePageDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by tesmith66:

Here is a write-up I did on swapping in the Isuzu 5 speed:

To swap in an Isuzu 5 speed here is what you will need:
Isuzu 5 speed (duh!)
Isuzu shift and select cables
5 speed shifter
Clutch and pressure plate for 4 speed or Getrag (If installing behind V6. For 4 cyl. use stock Isuzu clutch)
Throwout bearing for Isuzu
Shifter console trim plate with the 5 speed pattern on it (Rodney Dickman sells a sticker to do the same thing.)

You also have to make sure that the shift cable bracket and clutch slave cylinder bracket either come with the transmission, or can be found elsewhere. Getrag brackets can be found via Rodney Dickman, the isuzu brackets, well, good luck.

 
quote
The 4 speed slave cylinder will bolt directly to the Isuzu bracket.

You will have to modify the heat shield since the slave mounts much closer to the exhaust piping. It simply won't fit unless you notch the rear side of it.

 
quote
On V6 cars, the only thing you have to watch out for is the throttle cable at the throttle body. The Isuzu cables will interfere with the throttle at that point and cause it to stick open (NOT GOOD). I zip-tied mine to the crankcase vent tube and ran them under the intake tube. It's a tight fit, but it works and looks stock.

I can vouch for this too. I had to squeeze mine under the trunk bracket, but I'll get some zipties out next time I work on the car. I wish they were a little bit shorter, but what can you do?

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