I just had a rebuilt 3.4l installed in my 88 Formula. When I picked it up it was smoking a lot. Was told it was running rich and needed new injectors. I ran it about 300 miles and the smoking seem to get less. I replaced the injectors and put another 50 miles on it and it was still slightly smoking. ( Grey /Blue)
I checked the oil and it was low 2 quarts in 350 miles. Added oil, started it up and clouds of smoke poured out the tail pipe. Pulled the plugs and what looks like fresh oil was all over the ends of the plugs in # 2 and #6 cylinder. Hard to believe that much oil can get into the combustion chamber. I know valve guides/seals can leak, but this engine was just rebuilt and it is more than a minor internal leak. Other than a cracked block does anyone know what could cause this kind of oil in the combustion chamber ? If the lower intake was not sealed properly could oil leak from that into the cylinders ?

I would stop the trouble shooting and take it back to the installer/rebuilder. I assume they rebuilt and installed it?
I hope they offered a warranty? If you want, try a compression check, they did put valve seals in, didn't they?.......Paul

Valve seals and piston rings are usually the main cause of excessive oil burning.

It's strange that adding oil would cause it to suddenly start smoking worse than it was.

I have heard of a situation where a casting flaw in the 3.4 blocks would cause low compression and (I think) excessive oil consumption. The problem affected the lifter bores, and has been documented on at least three 3.4 blocks that I have heard of. One of them was a brand new crate motor. In one of the cases, it would cause excessive oil to flow up into the valve covers.
(That doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, but that's the story that I heard. There is also the possibility that I misunderstood.)
You may want to give Ed Parks at the Fiero Factory a call. www.thefierofactory.com I'm sure he can relate the story better than I.

[EDIT] What Paul said... The rebuilder needs to give you another engine, or go back through this one. There's no way a new engine should suck down 2 quarts in 350 miles. [/EDIT]

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Raydar

88 3.4 coupe. 17s, cut springs 'n all.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-25-2003).]

Not to go into a lot more details but the rebuilt that is now burning oil is already the fourth engine that has been installed in this car by one who is reccommended a lot in this Forum. The first three leaked oil externally ( rear main seal) which could never be fixed. Now the fourth engine leaks oil internally. Each time I take it back ( not an easy trip, we are talking about several hundred miles )they find "somthing else wrong" which costs me money so the warranty isn't doing me a lot of good. This has been going on for about 9 months now. I was just asking if anyone knew what could cause this type of internal leak. If it would be the lower intake manifold I could fix that and save myself a lot of headaches.

[This message has been edited by wwh0001 (edited 06-25-2003).]

[This message has been edited by wwh0001 (edited 06-25-2003).]

there arent many ways oil can get burnt - rings/cylinders/pistons, valve seals/valves or head gasket/head. none of these are much fun. My guess tho, whould be - the cylinders were not honed/bored when rebuilt. common shortcut on motor rebuilds. next guess would be a piston ring was put on upside down. from there, then the common stuff - heads gaskets, valve seals, etc.

quote Originally posted by wwh0001: Not to go into a lot more details but the rebuilt that is now burning oil is already the fourth engine that has been installed in this car by one who is reccommended a lot in this Forum. The first three leaked oil externally ( rear main seal) which could never be fixed. Now the fourth engine leaks oil internally. Each time I take it back ( not an easy trip, we are talking about several hundred miles )they find "somthing else wrong" which costs me money so the warranty isn't doing me a lot of good. This has been going on for about 9 months now. I was just asking if anyone knew what could cause this type of internal leak. If it would be the lower intake manifold I could fix that and save myself a lot of headaches. [This message has been edited by wwh0001 (edited 06-25-2003).] [This message has been edited by wwh0001 (edited 06-25-2003).]

So who is it? I would like to know, so I can avoid them. As far as them charging you more...bullsh!h. Tell them the engine smoked, when delivered, and any parts/labor necessary to correct it are there resonsiblitiy......Paul

I believe the problem has been with Grooms engines. I think Ed Parks even stopped using their engines after having many problems with them.

quote Originally posted by Rainman: ...Grooms engines. I think Ed Parks even stopped using their engines...

???

Could be the wrong head gaskets are installed, or incorrectly installed. Maybe the valve seals are incorrect for the valves used. A new engine will usually burn a little oil during break in. My V8 used a quart every couple of hundred miles the first few months. Now its stablized quite a bit at 3000 miles.

Thanks for the replys. This car doesn't burn a little oil. it is burning a lot. It smokes all the time, at idle, and at any RPM. The higher the RPM the more smoke. And you can smell the oil burning. As the oil level goes down about two quarts the amount of smoke also goes down. Put the correct amount of oil in and the clouds of smoke start again.Something was not done right. Oil appears to be getting into only the #2 and #6 cylinder. But there is a lot, pull the plugs and they are coated with oil. Funny thing is it still runs well and no abnormal engine noise.

quote Originally posted by wwh0001: Thanks for the replys. This car doesn't burn a little oil. it is burning a lot. It smokes all the time, at idle, and at any RPM. The higher the RPM the more smoke. And you can smell the oil burning. As the oil level goes down about two quarts the amount of smoke also goes down. Put the correct amount of oil in and the clouds of smoke start again.Something was not done right. Oil appears to be getting into only the #2 and #6 cylinder. But there is a lot, pull the plugs and they are coated with oil. Funny thing is it still runs well and no abnormal engine noise.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but it sounds like something is terribly wrong with your rebuild. By any chance are you using synthetic oil? Sythetic oil in a new engine will not allow the rings to seat. Be sure to use only petroleum based oil during the break in period. If you are using the right oil, then it's time to do a cylinder leakdown test to determine what is wrong. You can also tey a compression test. If either test fails then it is time to tear down the engine and check the bore and the piston rings.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://www.turbochargerpower.com/turbo.htm

really sounds like a head gasket wrong or defective or a cracked head between those 2 cylinders, maybe from the valve seat across.

yuck! well, can you smell gas in your oil at all? drain out some and check. If you do, its a good chance something was done wrong with the rings. If not, remove the valve cover and change the valve seals on both valves on both cylinders. when you say it seems to run ok, that would make me think the compression isnt that bad, so the rings may be ok, and the head & head gasket are ok, and its just valve seals leaking the oil in. if this is the case, you should be able to see it if you remove the plenums, and shine a light down the intake, you may see a very wet oily #2 & #4 intake ports. was the whole motor rebuilt or was it a shortblock rebuild with old heads?

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: really sounds like a head gasket wrong or defective or a cracked head between those 2 cylinders, maybe from the valve seat across.

If it's a crack, then it's more than one. Number 2 and number 6 are at opposite ends of the head.
For this much smoke, I'm guessing it's the rings, or an improperly prepped or damaged cylinder. Or a wrong gasket, as mentioned.

Here's a longshot...
Are you sure it has the correct dipstick installed? If the stick were too short, it would lead you to put in too much oil. Two quarts too much might cause the crank to whip oil around, and may cause a lot of interesting things, including oil getting in places it's not supposed to.
Just a thought.

Still sounds like a bad motor to me.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-26-2003).]

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: By any chance are you using synthetic oil? Sythetic oil in a new engine will not allow the rings to seat. Be sure to use only petroleum based oil during the break in period.

This is a quote from the Mobil 1 web site:

"One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design these high-performance cars, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the showroom floor".

So is Mobil setting themselves up for a lawsuit or is what the say true?....Paul

Again thanks for the info. The rebuilt 3.4l was the entire long block. Not using synthetic oil. Ran the car a bit last night. Lots of smoke. would think a head gasket blew . However, the smoke is definitly oil burning, you can smell it. Pulled all the plugs and they were all fouled this time. Will take a look in the intake tonight. Seems to me a lot of valve seals or piston rings would need to be bad to smoke this much and use this much oil. That would be a lot of mistakes when they did the rebuild. Some how a lot of oil very quickly is getting into the combustion chambers. By the way, drove it about 50 Miles and the oil level was down about 1 quart !

I would try what Raydar suggested, check for the wrong dipstick. Drain out all the oil and put in the correct amount that the engine calls for, not what the dipstick says. Then look at the dipstick and see if it reads correctly. If the dipstick says the oil is low, you may have found the problem. Either the dipstick is short or the dipstick tube is to long. When the oil level is to high the crank whips it all over the place and can cause lots of oil burning. Brian

Thanks. Should have mentioned I did change the oil when It was two quarts low. The amount drained out couldn't have been much more that a couple of quarts and there was no antifreeze / gas mixed with the oil. Other than not much oil it looked fine.( no oil in the cooling system either) I then put in the proper amount of oil. And the dip stick read full as it should. Ran the car, tons of smoke and 50 miles late down about a quart with all plugs fouled. Engine actually runs good and strong until the plugs get fouled.

wwh...

Check your PMs...

everyone i talk to says no sythetic untill at least the first oil change. Im using valvoline in mine till prob 5-6K...if I have it that long.