Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions - Archive
  problems with clutch. Not enough travel

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


problems with clutch. Not enough travel by x-thumpr-x
Started on: 05-04-2003 10:55 AM
Replies: 2
Last post by: jelly2m8 on 05-04-2003 12:15 PM
x-thumpr-x
Member
Posts: 1992
From: Toronto, Ontario
Registered: Aug 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post05-04-2003 10:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for x-thumpr-xSend a Private Message to x-thumpr-xDirect Link to This Post
I've recently purchased another fiero with the clutch line rotted out. I've fixed the line and replaced the slave cylinder. I have some pressure now but not enough to press to put the car in gear when running). The pedal goes down half way before the slave starts to move. We bleed that system for an hour, trying everything we can to get any air ot of the system. We removed the pushrod from the slave and tried pressing the clutch in to feel any spongness and we got none. We tried bleeding it like this a couple of time to force anny air out left in the lines. As soon as we put the pushrod back on, the pedal had no travel again. It pushes the clutch for about 1 1/2 inches (after pumping 3 times).

I'm thinking three problems.:
1. air in the clutch master cylinder that needs removing
2. clutch master cylinder needs rebuiding
3. Pressure plate is gone from sitting for a few years.

This car has roughly 220000km on it and still has the stock catilitic converter on it. I'm wondering if it still has the stock clutch in it, though the engine was rebuilt 30000km ago.

Anyone else else ever run into this problem? Maybe get some advice on which direction to take first before I start removing parts again.

------------------

"Take A Ride!"

Live each day as if it was your last and sooner or later you'll be right!

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
MRJ
Member
Posts: 2765
From: Charleston, West Virginia
Registered: Mar 2002


Feedback score:    (36)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 115
Rate this member

Report this Post05-04-2003 11:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MRJClick Here to visit MRJ's HomePageSend a Private Message to MRJDirect Link to This Post
I'd say the master cylinder is bad or check the connection to it at the pedal.
Also check the pedal height. If the pedal is not an inch higher than the brake pedal then you have a bent pedal.

MRJ

IP: Logged
jelly2m8
Member
Posts: 6275
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
Registered: Jul 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 243
Rate this member

Report this Post05-04-2003 12:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jelly2m8Send a Private Message to jelly2m8Direct Link to This Post
Bleeding the hydraulic clutch on a Fiero is NOT rocket science. Don't take that personally, this is for everyone.

If you can't bleed the clutch system easily in 5 or 10 minutes, you have other problems.

Fact is that if every component is in proper operating condition, you can sit a Fiero on a level surface, fill the master cylinder a quarter of an inch from the top with the cap off, and crack the bleed screw on the slave and it will gravity bleed itself in a matter of minutes.

If not, stop trying to bleed it and look else where.

Yes, a faulty slave or MC is very common to us, even if they do not exibt an exterior leak.

In event of an unsucessful bleed attempt, start looking the system over for a visually bad componnent.

I start at the clutch pedal. The clutch pedals are prone to bending, creating 2 problems, loss of pedal travel, and incomplete retraction of the MC pistion in the cylinder bore.

Open the door, and look down at the clutch and brake pedals, the clutch pedal should sit at LEAST 3/4 of an inch higher than the brake pedal.

Then look under the dash, and up at the clutch pedal linkage. The pedal itsself does not bend. There is a U shaped bracket in which the MC push rod is attached to. The vertical arm of that U should be parallel and on the same plane as the main pedal. The horizontal part of the U should be perpindicular and square to the pedal.

The push rod should be perfectally straight, with the offset end of the loop at the clutch pedal pointing UP.

There should be little to no free play between the loop on the push rod, and the banjo (pin) on the clutch pedal.

There can be play there if the loop is worn, or the banjo is worn. The later models have a bushing in that push rod end at the pedal, this can wear out.

On the transaxle, check to make sure that the slave is bolted securly to the slave bracket.

On the 4 spd's and Getrags, make sure that the slave bracket is not cracked. On the Isuzu brackets, check for cracks, and a bent bracket.

Using a helper, get them to push on the clutch pedal, and see if the slave bracket bends while pushing on the pedal. Metal fatigue can cause the bracket to become weak, and flex.

The slave should sit slightly higher on the bleed screw end. This is hard to eyeball, and measure.

Check the release arm on the exterior of the transaxle case. Make sure the pinch bolt is there and secure. Check the ends of the release lever where they wrap around the release bearing shaft, for cracks , breaks, or evidence of slippage.

On the stamped steel release levers, make sure the plastic puck is there, and not broken , or worn.

Check the slave rod for straightness. Push the rod back into the slave with one hand, and use the other to flip the release lever back and forth, this should move freely with little to no resistance. If there is any significant amount of resistance, there is a problem inside the transaxle bellhousing, either a seized shaft in the case, a bent release fork, or a worn relese bearing support.

Check the clutch line for signs of leakage, or being crushed at any point.

Pull the rubber boot off the end of the slave, any sign at all of fluid means the slave is leaking, replace it.

Pull the boot back on the inside of the MC under the dash, again any sign of fluid means it is leaking externally.

Thats about all the visual parts you can check, next is the guessing game.

If you are confident that all the components are in proper order, you have to figure out which part of the hydraulic system is faulty.

In my experiance, one is farther ahead in the long run to replace the clutch MC, and slave as a pair, and to flush the clutch line thoroughly.

Brake fluid becomes dirty and contaminated in short order, even quicker in a Fiero's clutch system.

Replacing one part of the 2 major parts, may be a quick fix, but chances are the other component will fail in short order.
By replacing one part, you still have another part that has old crappy fluid in it. This dirt and debris will make its way into your new component, possibly destroying that.

Now to decide which component you want to replace, if you only want to replace one.

Now don't hold me accountable if what I say does not work for you. Not everybody's problem operates in the same fashon as others. You can have 10 cars that exihibt the exact same problem. Nine will be the slave, and when you get to the tenth and say" replace the slave" it will be the MC at fault.

After an unsuccessful bleed, pump the clutch pedal several times, and note if the pedal engages sooner in the pedal travel stroke. If so, it's likely a faulty slave.

If you cannot "pump up " the air, it may be the MC.

Fill the MC reservoir to the top and leave the cap off. Remove the bleed screw completely from the slave. Watch in the slave bleed screw bore for signs of fluid running, or air bubbles.

If there is no sign of either, there is a restriction somewhere either at the MC, or the clutch line.

In my experiance, I have never ever run into a collapsed, or blocked clutch line.
That doesn't mean to rule that possibility out, it is possible.

If you seem to have random pressure while pushing the clutch pedal, suspect the MC


A few other notes.

Never pump the clutch pedal with the cap off of the MC.

When bleeding the clutch hydraulics, always keep an eye on the fluid level at the MC.

Use a shop rag around the MC to catch any spilled brake fluid.

same for at the slave, most people like to use a piece of clear tubing and a jar to catch the excess fluid.


Anybody who wants to add, or question what I said feel free.

We need to put together a sure fire clutch hydraulics diagnosis procedure.

Maybe Ogre would be willing to help, or host this in his cave.



------------------

1988GT T-Tops, 5spd, Loaded

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 05-04-2003).]

IP: Logged



All times are ET (US)

T H I S   I S   A N   A R C H I V E D   T O P I C
  

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock