I am a mech engineering student at a university. Part of the privelages of being an engineering student here is that I get to use most of the top-of-the line engineering software from many different engineering fields. One of these programs is called ADAMS/Car. This program is used quite often in the auto industry(so I hear) and allows for simulation of an entire car's suspension characteristics. In fact one of the examples in the tutorial is a testarossa. I was introduced to this program because I joined a club called the Sooner Racing Team. This team participates in a mini-formula sae competition every year in detroit.

As you can tell I am pretty long winded. I would absolutely love entering the suspension hard points, as well as flex values and such, for a pontiac fiero 84-87. Keep in mind this can tell me the amount of bumpsteer that the car is experiencing, as well as many other important data elements. My problem with doing this is not working with the computer, it is getting the data. If anyone has all this information (I doubt it, but I thought I would ask) could you please give me the information. I would be delighted to share any and all useful information.

Thanks
86gt

[This message has been edited by 86gt852m4 (edited 03-04-2003).]

Thought I would offer a pic.

i am interested but I have an 88. What type of numbers do you need?
Nate

It would seem that to model the Fiero (or any) suspension, you would need to know the precise location of the lower control arm pivot points, the distance to the ball joint, the location of the strut upper bearing, dimensions of the knuckle, toe link attachment point, etc. all in 3 dimensions. Unless someone here has detailed engineering drawings, this info is going to be tuff to come by.

Oh yea, the tolerance stackup on each of those dimensions would also be required.

[This message has been edited by Mark (edited 03-03-2003).]

Mark is correct, I need alot of data, tolerances add up, the program actually allows for actual flexing of the components. You can even run the simulated vehicle on different autocross tracks. This will take some time for me to do, but I was wondering if anyone else had some of the variables already figured out. I plan to do the 84-87 suspension because most people have these years of the fiero and its the kind I own so that I may collect my own data. This program allows for various degrees of precision for example I could use a simple ball joint model, or a more complicated one.

If I can't find this data, I'm going to take a long amount of time and get it from my vehicle.

Let me break down what I have to do.
Set up the front suspension including steering rack.
Set up the rear suspension sorta look like this except mirrored

Put these in a single vehicle simulation with the vehicles main masses (gas tank, engine, passenger, etc.)

Get an near unlimited amount of data... for example there is a way to simulate how much force is required to hold the steering wheel at a certain angle while driving at 30 mph. I can calculate the amount of body roll in a 3 lane change at 70 miles per hour. Its all there. I can setup different tire compounds, stiffness of sidewalls... all sorts of information. I can even model different types of bushings.

that sounds like an incredible piece of software!

it will be really interesting to see what you can do with it once you get the cars data.

thinking about it Will would probably have lots to say about it. He may even have some of the data you need.... lets hope he see this

86gt,
A lot of us would be interested, but I'm still foggy on exactly what data you require and how to collect it.

Tell you what: If you live in the eastern 1/2 of the USA, I'll pick you up & fly you out to my place (and back when you are thru). I have an '85 chassis chopped up for a Diablo build, and the front & rear suspensions are totally exposed and super easy to get to. I also have an '84, '86,'87 & '88 setting right outside the barn.

Seriously.

quote Originally posted by opm2000: 86gt, A lot of us would be interested, but I'm still foggy on exactly what data you require and how to collect it. Tell you what: If you live in the eastern 1/2 of the USA, I'll pick you up & fly you out to my place (and back when you are thru). I have an '85 chassis chopped up for a Diablo build, and the front & rear suspensions are totally exposed and super easy to get to. I also have an '84, '86,'87 & '88 setting right outside the barn. Seriously.

That would be awesome, unfortunately I cannot take you up on your offer until I feel very confident in my skills to use the software, besides I have an '85 I can get the measurements from, I was just hoping someone had already done some suspension analysis and had the data. To get the data I will take the front and rear suspensions apart, measure all the important lengths, such as distance between the three points on the control arm. Then with the other side of the suspension still intact I will measure the angle between certain components. Then using some trigonometry and vector math, I should be able to model a fairly (all hard points) accurate version of the front/rear suspensions. As the details get more advanced, I will have to develop more realistic models of the suspension components (how they flex under load). With this data I can find, with a great level of accuracy, how toe angles would change throughout the entire movement of the suspension. After the model is actually in the computer the fun begins.

Again, thanks for the offer, but I don't want to end up wasting your time.

well i just bumped into this and thought what a cool program you have got your hands on, i would realy like to help but i dont know any of the info you need. if you have any progress on this plz let me know i would be very interested, good luck.

Try contacting Held Motorsports. They build/modify Fiero suspensions, and must know something about this stuff. They may choose not to tell you anything, but on the other hand they might be very helpful and interested.