Ok here's the lowdown, considering I can't sell my fiero on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1876036160

I'm thinking about a V8 swap...and I might be able to get a hold of a 400 small block (completely running)with 70,000 miles for $400 or for an xbox with 5 games!! Well anyways, will Archies kit work? This would be an econo swap, for less than $2 grand... hopefully. I don't want to try for more than $3 which would take me a year to finish even for $2,000 unless I get a new job with better pay. So, the 400's were essentually 350 stroker's right?

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Silver 1985 Pontiac Fiero GT
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Archies kit is for SBC you are looking at a SBC. Need more be said?

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/030902.html

Whats wrong with the 400's crank? Can it still be used, or should it be redone?

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Silver 1985 Pontiac Fiero GT
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The 400 is externally balanced. It needs it's own dampner and flywheel. Unless Archie has one for the 400, his won't work.

The 400 crank is also a cast crank, which isn't necessarily a death cry, but it's a very weak forged crank at that. The 400 SB worked OK in grandma's Impala, but when they put them in trucks they just didn't make the cut. Unless you plan on a life of sedate driving, it's not very suitable.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: Whats wrong with the 400's crank? Can it still be used, or should it be redone?

Well ok, on the weak 400 crank... would the stock fiero 3 speed auto with 120,000 miles handle the 400's power? along with a new torque converter... Also can you buy a new 400 forged crank?

well I checked ebay, full steel, *internally balanced* 400 cranks $209 buy it now std. size. $189 for external balancing. So would changing it to an internal balance be better? So I could use Archie's flexplate or flywheel (if i change it to a 5 speed muncie) without modifying it if I get an internally balanced crank?

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Silver 1985 Pontiac Fiero GT
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I looked on Ebay and didn't see the crank you were referring to. If that's a FORGED 400 crank, it's a steal. It probably isn't forged though.

Ok, you have to remember when and why the 400 was made. It was a relatively high torque, low rpm, emissions motor. It had more torque than a 350 of the era, but less horsepower and at lower rpm's. The heads were small valve, low compression, and it used dished pistons. All of this is from memory on my part, so don't crucify me if I've got something wrong, and I never rebuilt any stock 400's, only used them as the foundation for other engines.

It has cast, dished pistons and shorter rods than a standard 350 small block.

Now, if you go to the problem of buying a steel crank to replace the stock one, you are still stuck with the weaker rods that are a non-standard length. You also still have the cast pistons that are very low compression. Maybe you don't realize how low it really was, but my memory is something on the order of 8:1 or 8.5:1. Stock, it also only came with a 2 bbl carb.

So for a decent performance engine, you need:

crank,
rods (but not much to do there without lots of $$)
pistons
heads (it's not just the little valves, it also used very large combustion chambers)
Intake/carb or FI

Given all that, if you're working up a cheap swap, why not find a good, 4 bolt main 350 4 bbl and start there? It will make every hp the 400 will, unless you want to spend a lot of money on it.

Don't get me wrong, the 400 block was one of my favorite foundations for a race motor. I just don't see the benefit unless you want to BUILD a race motor.

But the choice is up to you. If you have any questions, I'll be glad to help however I can if you decide to go this way.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: well I checked ebay, full steel, *internally balanced* 400 cranks $209 buy it now std. size. $189 for external balancing. So would changing it to an internal balance be better? So I could use Archie's flexplate or flywheel (if i change it to a 5 speed muncie) without modifying it if I get an internally balanced crank?

Thanks for the help, if the 400 would be this much pain, forget it, I'm 16 and working on a very limited budget so I can't afford to do a $1,000 engine build up also...

The crank is not the problem with the 400 SBC. The problem is that the pistons were so large, that in order to fit them into the SBC, the cylinders had be "siamesed". There is no water jacket completely around the cylinders, like the other SBC's. The 400 just has steam holes between the cylinders for cooling. I built one of these, and used 461 heads. Probably not the best choice, because it always had an overheating problem. I think the 400 is a poor choice for the Fiero engine bay, which already has heat concerns.

Dave,

With all due respect, I've built a bunch of these for a few applications. The larger, siamesed bore is not a problem unless you don't drill the steam holes in the heads. I've never had an overheating problem in a fresh engine. The steam holes are there to give the steam and coolant a place to vent so that the collant can get into the "v" formed by the siamesed cylinders. This is not something unique to the 400 Chevy, several engines use the same design.

The problem IS the crank amongst other things, if you want to get serious, and of course the basic lack of any high performance potential in the heads and piston tops.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Dave Mathis: The crank is not the problem with the 400 SBC. The problem is that the pistons were so large, that in order to fit them into the SBC, the cylinders had be "siamesed". There is no water jacket completely around the cylinders, like the other SBC's. The 400 just has steam holes between the cylinders for cooling. I built one of these, and used 461 heads. Probably not the best choice, because it always had an overheating problem. I think the 400 is a poor choice for the Fiero engine bay, which already has heat concerns.

I did have the steam holes drilled in the heads. Used hardened valve seats, rotators and all. Still, if you are going to build a high powered engine, there are lots of ready built SBC engines that are a much better chioce for the Fiero than the high torque 400. BTW, the 400 crank is used in the 383 engine, with a 350 block. Bad crank?

For an economy swap, the 400 will be FINE. Getting the special balancer into a Fiero with the standard Archie kit is a trick, though.

However, a stock TH125 will not hang onto it. You'll need either a manual trans or a built auto.

Either way, when you get the engine in, don't spin it past 5,000 RPM and you shouldn't have any problems.

If you know what to look for, you can find lots of decent cylinder heads and good intake manifolds for not much $$$. A 400 is capable of plenty of power and torque as long as you don't rev it.

My father has a 400 crate engine with towing cam, lightly ported heads and a TPI intake setup in a '74 XJ6 Jaguar. It has tremendous torque and really moves that 4000 lb car. Oh yeah, it's well beyond 200,000 miles, too.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-05-2003).]

Well my dad thinks I'm crazy, but if my car doesn't sell on ebay, I think I may as well get that 400 and drop her in. So you think the stock auto will work as long as I don't rev it too high? Or do you think I should put in the Muncie 5 speed manual? I want this to be an eventual sleeper show car/partial drag race car... Also is there anyone that have a used archie kit that I can get for cheaper perhaps other than the econo $1550 kit? Or do you think I should get the $995 kit, and get my own water pump, oil filter kit, and starter?

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Silver 1985 Pontiac Fiero GT
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quote Originally posted by Will: For an economy swap, the 400 will be FINE. Getting the special balancer into a Fiero with the standard Archie kit is a trick, though. However, a stock TH125 will not hang onto it. You'll need either a manual trans or a built auto. Either way, when you get the engine in, don't spin it past 5,000 RPM and you shouldn't have any problems.

A 400 will destroy the stock auto. You'll need a manual or a built auto. Do more research about the balancer.

Archie posted a thread about a $4,000 V8 conversion a while back search for that. The subject was something like "$4,000 V8 swap"

If you really want the power, sound, and bragging rights of a V8 but don't know if you have the money, I'd go with the Cadillac 4.9 V8 swap. I'm going to end up spending just over $1100 on my 4.9 swap, and that includes the engine and 4spd 4T60-E transmission. My engine and transmission have 30,000 on them.
One of the great things about the 4.9 is that it features an aluminum block, so there will be virtually no weight gain going from a 2.8 V6 to a 4.9. Also, you can use the stock TH125.
Now for the disadvantages. The motor is only advertised at 200 horsepower and 275 torque, and there isn't a whole lot of aftermarket for it.

I'm going this route and this spring am planning to do some head and cam work on it.

..and there is my advertisement for the Cadillac 4.9.

Hey!

If you want a car that you can enjoy and drive and smile while you're doing it, then go ahead. If, on the other hand, your car is a surrogate penis, and it's measured in tenths of a second, then go for a turbo-super-multi-charged whosis with Aspirin Injection. You needn't actually race anyone: all you have to do is read'em your invoices. They'll be scared to death! We all know that it's not what you got that matters, it's what everybody else thinks you got that counts.

OK. Retract the sarcasm. If you're not going to see SUSTAINED ( for at least 100 miles) high speed, then I'll bet you'll do just fine. Remember, whatever that 400 came out of weighed a BUNCH more than that piddly li'l Fiero. And I'll ALSO bet that that there're plenty of 400's that made 100,000 miles, just like all the rest of the SBCs out there.

I've never done a damned thing to please anybody else, and I'm not gonna start now. What you propose sounds very feasible, and I think you'll be OK.

All I would be doing is cleaning the engine up some, inspect for damage, do a engine flush (would that be wise to get rid of the old oil?) Get 10w-30 synthetic to change the oil, do some tuning up, repaint it, and that be it for now. But if I do get that engine, I won't have the money to get the swap kit till summer.

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Silver 1985 Pontiac Fiero GT
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The 4.9 is NOT a Northstar.

Read this page.... http://home.v8archie.com/v8fiero.htm

This is part of the 1st. para. on that page ....

Our Fiero V-8 Engine Conversion Kits allow you to install a small block Chevy engine into any 1984 thru 1988 Pontiac Fiero. ........ Engines that can be used include any small block Chevy from 1968 to present, note: on the 400 c.i. engine, our flywheel will need to be balanced with your crank.

Now..... to balance the 400 rotating assembly properly you'll have to partially disassemble the engine & have have a machine shop balance it all together.

For someone on a tight budgit, the 400 is a bad choice. Any other SBC would not need this extra labor or expense.

Thanks

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 01-06-2003).]

Ok, well what about that Caddy engine? Is that a somewhat easier swap, I read up about it, but it looks like It'll take some skill rewiring, other than that it looks like it'll work. Any way to put a carb on the 4.9 and make it so it needs no computer to run?

Look around, and talk to some people about what your doing, if the 400 is cheep, and you can find someone with a good 350, they may be willing to swap even with you. never hurts to ask

I use to have a 80 TA with a 400 transplant, over 200k miles with no engine problems (I use to push it pretty hard at times) - the only problems I ever ran into was: baked starters, and several cracked flex plates

Tim

quote Originally posted by 1985FieroGT: Ok, well what about that Caddy engine? .... the 4.9

Ok, it took 2 days to get him down from 400 C.I. to 300 C.I. & from 400 HP down to 200 HP. At that rate, by this time tomorrow, he'll be down to a 3.8 with 100 HP.

Archie

Archie,

Have you ever done one with the 400? The reason I ask is that somewhere in my memory, I seem to recall an add on plate for the flywheel that will make it unbalanced. That would at least take care of the back half of the balance problem for anyone that wanted to use the 400. Just wondered if you'd seen this, or knew about it.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Archie: Ok, it took 2 days to get him down from 400 C.I. to 300 C.I. & from 400 HP down to 200 HP. At that rate, by this time tomorrow, he'll be down to a 3.8 with 100 HP. Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: Ok, it took 2 days to get him down from 400 C.I. to 300 C.I. & from 400 HP down to 200 HP. At that rate, by this time tomorrow, he'll be down to a 3.8 with 100 HP. Archie

What production 400 that could be had for $400 makes 400 HP?

1985FieroGT, Yes the 4.9 can take a carb but you will either have to make a adapt out of a 1inch peice of alluminum or buy a mister gasket 2barrel to 2barrel carb adapt($25bucks) and drill and tap your holes in the intake. you will need to make a distributer to work without the EMC (very easy 1hour job)

This is a high torc motor but low hp, But in my opinion after you have taken the powersteering pump and extra pullies off to convert it for the fiero might gain you some horse power.

oh yeah the 4.9 wieghts the same as the v6 fiero motor. and a Very cheap swap if your on a tight budget.

[This message has been edited by 86fieroEarl (edited 01-08-2003).]