Back in 1984 when I was 24 years old, I fell head over heals for Fiero's, and promptly ordered a sexy red 2M4. I loved that car!! But a year later when I got married and little-one number 1 was on the way, I had to sell it for transportation with a back seat. All these years later I found myself in a position to buy a 1988 Formula. It's a sexy BLACK beauty!
However, my problems started when I had to get an emmissions test to get the car registered. It didn't pass the first three tries, and after spending 3 weeks in the shop, it finally passed. This was immediately followed by the Auto-tranny giving up the ghost. So in the 3 months that I have owned the car, I've only been able to drive it maybe 50 miles. I'm beginning to wonder if this car is going to be more trouble than it is worth.
My question for everyone is this: Are all Fiero's this unreliable? Are they cars that constantly have something go wrong with them? I am not mechanically inclined, and don't have much time to be a backyard mechanic. Should I fix the tranny and sell it ASAP? Or will I be rewarded with a decently reliable car once I get beyond this hurdle? Am I out of my league here?
I would appreciate your comments and advise.
Thanks!

Above all else, remember that it's a 15 year old car. Anything of that vintage is going to need some work.
It all depends upon how well it was maintained. Automatic transmissions can fail, just like anything else.
There are some fairly common points of failure, but generally the automatics are a little more reliable than the manuals, due to quirky hydraulics on the clutches. (That's from my perspective. Others may disagree.)
How many miles are on the car?
There is the largest possibility that anything that could go wrong with it has already been seen, and talked about extensively, right here on this Forum.
You can't find a better place to learn, anywhere on the 'net.

If you have any particular issues, there is a search button at the top of the page. Just type in a keyword, click on the appropriate "area" and let it fly. Takes a little getting used to, but it works fairly well.
Or just ask.

Good luck and welcome to the Forum.

[EDIT] You didn't say what was wrong with the tranny. The most common problem is the torque converter clutch (TCC) will stick. Causes the car to shudder to a stop and stall, when you come to a stop sign. When you restart it, it will bang when you shift into gear and stall. Usually takes about 4-5 tries before it lets go.
The quick and dirty (temporary) fix is to unplug the connector from the transmission. It's on the firewall (front) side of the trans, near the exhaust pipe.

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Raydar

First rule of hot rodding:
If "more" is enough, then "too much" is just right.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 01-03-2003).]

There is 117,000 miles on it. My initial impression is that the guy I bought it from had taken decent care of it. But while the car was in the shop there was some stuff the mechanic found that indicated to me that it hadn't been taken care of as well as I'd thought...I.E., no thermostat, and a botched patch job on the EGR tube.

quote Originally posted by Den: There is 117,000 miles on it. My initial impression is that the guy I bought it from had taken decent care of it. But while the car was in the shop there was some stuff the mechanic found that indicated to me that it hadn't been taken care of as well as I'd thought...I.E., no thermostat, and a botched patch job on the EGR tube.

EGR tubes fail. Frequently. Some people do some creative things to try to fix them. At least he didn't remove it and block it off (or did he?). Don't know what to say about the thermostat.
Hang in there. I have around 122,000 miles on my automatic Formula, and just drove it for a 150 mile blast through the North GA mountains.

Check my previous post, regarding the tranny. This has happend to all but one of the automatic Fieros I have owned.

I don't know yet what is wrong with the transmission. I've got to save up a little "mad money" before I can tow it to a shop. It ran just fine one day and then the next it was just DOA...no forward gears, no reverse. It just sits there as if every gear were Neutral. Up to that point it worked OK except for "hard" shifts until the car warmed up. Once the car warmed up, it shifted normally.
At this point I am assuming a tranny re-build to the tune of about $1,500 to $1,700.

quote Originally posted by Den: I am not mechanically inclined, and don't have much time to be a backyard mechanic. Should I fix the tranny and sell it ASAP? Or will I be rewarded with a decently reliable car once I get beyond this hurdle? Am I out of my league here? I would appreciate your comments and advise. Thanks!

No flame intended here, but yes, you are out of your league, unless you can afford (willingly) to have someone repair the car for you.

Raydar made some excellent points above and things will fail. Even if you're willing to pay someone to fix it, you need to know a really good mechanic for a 15 year old car, as most today haven't ever worked on them (or work on them very rarely).

As you stated you don't have the technical talents or the time to do the work, you're between a rock, and a really hard place. You have to really love these cars to get past this hurdle. They are great cars if they are kept up, let's face it, cars this old do require some wear parts to be replaced (especially if the parts are original equipment). Cheap replacement parts aren't the answer to repair either, get the best, and that part will be good for another 15 years.

Hope I haven't rattled your cage too much.

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Click to Listen!

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 01-03-2003).]

quote Originally posted by California Kid: Hope I haven't rattled your cage too much.

Not at all. You stated exactly what I am feeling. I have a 91 GMC pickup that has never given me a minutes trouble, and it's at 138,000 miles. Before I bought the Fiero I checked on a website called "Carsurvey" I think, and almost all of the fiero owners raved about how reliable their cars were, and how much they loved them. I assumed they must be similar in reliability to my truck and thought it would be a good buy...WOW.

By the way Den, Welcome to the Forum!

You may want to consider managing repairs like I do, I have very considerable automotive experience, but frankly I'm getting too old to be crawling under cars anymore (if it ain't fun, I don't do it). I found a few excellent mechanics locally in my area that are 'top notch', so if a hoist is required, they get the work.

Most mechanical things are easy to repair, just have to understand what's causing the problem. Quite a few of those answers can be found right here on the forum or by posting a question/s. But again, it's a matter of time.

Forgot to ask if you car is a hobby car, sunny driver, or is it intended to be a daily driver? Makes a big difference in your shoes.

My intention was to buy it for a "sunny-driver" play toy. (10-4 on the shoes.)

Den,
Welcome to the Forum! There are some that love these cars more than others. Before long, there will be antique tags on some of these cars. I understand your frustration because I owned an 87 model 11 years ago that had low miles and ran great. Life changes forced me to sell the car, and I spent the past decade wishing I hadn't sold it. Now that I am back in the game, I am spending a lot of time and money to practically build myself a "new" car. I love these cars despite what everyone else says. It boils down to this... Once you reverse the age on a vehicle by fixing what problems exist (always find a mechanic that truly knows about Fieros), you will find that the service you get from the vehicle is worth it. Reversing the 14 years of use on a vehicle with 117,000 miles on it will take some time and money. I know... I am in the middle of the same situation you are. Hang in there.

PS... If you just got the car, check under the seats and in the center console under the shift plate... you might get lucky like I did and find enough change to help pay for part of the cost towards repair. I cleaned out two 24 ounce coffee cups full of change!

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BlueGT

[This message has been edited by BlueGT (edited 01-03-2003).]

Thanks for the encouragement. It helps to know I'm not alone.

It sounds like you did a little better than me in the spare change quest...but I did get enough to buy my family dinner at Burger King!

Den, It almost sounds like you may not have any fluid in the tranny. The car could have developed a leak and when you loose the fluid in an automatic tranny, you wont go anywhere.

Pop the hood and look for a dipstick close to the trunk. Start the engine up and let it run for about 5 min and then check the fluid level.

If the dipstick is dry, then you likely have a leak. A good place to start the hunt is on the drivers side where the transmission fluid hose from the front of the car connect to the tranny.

Hope this helps. Once you get the hang of backyard mechanicing, its not that big of a deal.

Good Luck.

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Dillon

"And this one time, on the Fiero Forum..."

quote Originally posted by Den: My intention was to buy it for a "sunny-driver" play toy. (10-4 on the shoes.)

Then you're in the game!!!! It's not like it has to be fixed right away! My car has been going through changes since 1993, but it's really worth it in the end.

Thanks for the tip. I did already check the fluid and it's right in between the "FUll" and "Add" mark.

where do you live? There are people on here from all over the world. If your close to me, Bring it over. I'll work on just about any fiero for free if your willing to give me a hand.
there's also quite a few people on here who work on fieros for a living or side job. You may be close to some of them.

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88 Yellow FORMULA
SSFiero@Aol.com

Ditto to Kisses offer. My 84 and 87 have been teaching me all sorts of auto repair techniques. Learning about the car and fixing it are about 35% of the fun of driving it. Some days more than others!
Welcome to the forum.

Welcome to the Forum!

Fieros will teach you a lot about car mechanical work. I have learned more in the last 5 days then in 5 weeks without the car.

A few things I have found out about Fieros, is they MUST be driven and run at least 3 times a week to maintain themselves. Anyless and they tend to develop problems.

I just picked up an 87GT that was owned by a guy who replaced nearly everything but the engine itself. It ran perfectly fine for him. But it then basically sat for 4 months only be started to idle and driven to get minor service. In that time it developed some shifting issues. No reason other then it sat there.

Fieros can be pretty reliable. Would I count on them as my only source of transportation? Nope! I wouldn't do that with ANY 15 year old car from ANY manufacture. A good number of members here have another car as well.

On the plus side, parts aren't really that expensive. It's finding someone to do the labor that can be tough. But look around. We found one guy years ago who loved working on the car. If you have the cash, you can always go torture the guys at the Pontiac dealership

My Fiero was one of my first cars. I've always only owned one vehicle at a time and never new. Learning to work on it was just one hurdle I had to get past if I wanted to drive. I am by no means a mechanic, but I do know my car. It's taken years for my to be completely comfortable diagnosing the problems and fixing them myself.For myself the biggest hurdle was just not being intimidated by the car itself. Truth be told I now find it one of the easiest cars to work on.
After years of tinkering I can now sit in the car and turn the key without having to cross my fingers.
It's the type of car that can be as reliable as you want it to be. If your not prepared to take care of the little things then expect to pay when they become bigger things.

By the way I love my car.
James.

autotrans no gears, first ck the cable, is the shifter doing anything to the trans???? moving the on trans levers??? then there is a TV cable to the throltle postion that may need and adjustment
if worse comes
a junkyard th-125 is very common and cheap
1500 is a dealer rip off price inc labor at $50 and hour or more
real price on a used but good th-125 is 100-200 max

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

Yo, Den!

Don't sweat it. My GrandDad said, "Every time you fix something at least you know it won't break again." In my experience Fieros are no more prone to problems than any other GM vehicles, it's just that they often have DIFFERENT problems. Cars with automatic transmissions sometimes break. Cars with hydraulic clutches sometimes have clutch problems. And so on...

There's a good part to owning a cult classic, though. Someone somewhere has thoroughly dissected your car from bumper to bumper, and there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that can happen to your car that someone hasn't seen before!

So enjoy! Do a couple of mild upgrades that will personalize your car & give you an excuse to touch it (Maybe Walt Zettner's brakes, or installing Factory Electric Windows)

Above all, DON'T GIVE UP!!

quote Originally posted by ray b: autotrans no gears, first ck the cable, is the shifter doing anything to the trans???? moving the on trans levers??? then there is a TV cable to the throltle postion that may need and adjustment if worse comes a junkyard th-125 is very common and cheap 1500 is a dealer rip off price inc labor at $50 and hour or more real price on a used but good th-125 is 100-200 max

What Ray said.

Like Raydar said old cars = repairs. I know of Fieros with over 200K miles with no problems with engine or automatic transmissions. It seems to depend on the car and the maintenance it has had throughout its life.

I own two, one has been relaible maintenance things replaced, one has had most all components replaced once or twice (like engines and transmissions) and neither car has hit 100K miles on them.

I farm out most of the work to reliable mechanics, because working on my back in my driveway lost its "fun" component a decade ago.

I hear where you are coming from. In 1984 I was a District Sales Manager for Pontiac Motor Division with my first assignment in the St. Louis Zone when the Fiero came out. I wanted one but had a new baby the week the Fiero was announced and by 1988 when they pulled the plug had a minivan. I too have been making up for the time past and have just aquired #5 my second 88 Formula. Don't get discouraged but if money is a big factor take it one step at a time. All of mine at some point were a labor of love just to get back on the road. I draw the line at transmissions but will tackle about anything else. If you are close to Indiana I have an auto available should you need it as well as many other items to help with or advice.

Enjoy it as it really is a piece of automotive history. No other domestic manufacturer has ever built a mid engined, plastic bodied commuter sports car that was inexpensive when it was new and even more so used. Couple that with the handling and looks nothing today compares.

You may get funny looks when you tell someone you drive a Fiero especially when all they can remember is it was a 4 banger that caught on fire. Just ignore them as the number of people that will greatly admire your car will far out weigh those that don't.

Mike

Oh they are lying to you...

It can't be fixed, and if it could it would just break down again.

So do the right thing and sign the title over to me and I'll drag it away so that you don't suffer anymore.

Hehehehehehehehehe
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Actually, like any car they have their own set of common problems (EGR tube). Any car does, and the older the more of them. If it's been well maintained, it shouldn't be to hard to get it back into good shape. Best bet, use GM parts.

Welcome to the Forum and let us know where your at... maybe someone can give you a hand with it.

quote Originally posted by KissMySSFiero: where do you live? There are people on here from all over the world. If your close to me, Bring it over. I'll work on just about any fiero for free if your willing to give me a hand.

I live in Utah, so I am probably out of luck, but I would love to find somebody that knew their stuff that I could work with and learn from. I would get great satisfaction from that.
Thanks!!

I agree with the general feeling, it is 14-15 years old, many parts are available from aftermarket and some GM.
I have an 88 Formula I bought from a guy in Tulsa, OK. I flew down there and drove it back, the car has 206,000 miles on it and was still running good, (except rear trans motor mount was broke).
Anyway, it had no rust on the unibody, which is why I bought it.
I wanted a project car, I have replaced the 2.8 with a 3.4, all the suspension, radiator, condensor, rebuilt the tranny ($550.00 carry out), new rotors, calipers, brake lines, oil cooler lines etc. Next I will get it painted, and will have a mechanically new 88.
The problem with finding a commercial mechanic, is sometimes you have to search high and low for parts, and sometimes you have to put in used ones, most of these guys don't know where to get them other than GM or NAPA.....good luck....Paul p.s Used TH125C's are easy to find I bought one for another project car for $100.00 and it had 38,000 miles on it. The Getrag is hard to find.