I have seen a couple of websites that say that it's really not that hard to get 200 hp from one of these motors. I have also noticed that the term "H O"(High Output) seems to follow the 2.8 around somtimes.

Are all the 2.8's considered HO ?
And has anyone built up a 2.8 na motor to 200 hp....Just curious.

I have heard of 3.2's (a 3.1 stroker + some bore) getting past 200 ponies with the right cam.

The 2.8 that was put in our cars is HO.
Blazers, s10's, etc. got a non HO 2.8L motor.

200 HP is a stretch for a 2.8L V6. It can be done but it's not cost effective. You need considerably more displacement to get 200HP out of a "streetable" engine. Just search the archives for the engines that came in short of the goal. By streetable I mean running 94 octane pump gas, the engine idles without making you motion-sick at a stop light and will last more than a month.

The HO designation is tossed around a lot for the 660 engines. Generally, the iron/big valve head engines are called HO although there are some that are low on HP but high on torque (TBI 120HP/180 ft-lbs U-van 3.1L).

The original HO was the 81 Z code carburated engine in the X-11's. In 85, they added MPFI in two versions, the mass air (X-11/Celebrity) and the Speed Density (Fiero). Other than the exhaust systems and upper plenums they are the same engines.

Once the alumimum head engines arrived, the HO designation seemed to disappear from the GM vocabulary except in an occassion brochure. I notice they use it on the 3400 SFI now.

A straight 2.8L can get over 200hp, But it requires a LOT of work. The Fiero intake system will not support much over 190hp with it bored/ported. You would need to find an aftermarket intake system. Stroking it to a 3.1L and/or boring it to a 3.2L does help it get to 200.

Basically with the cast heads, increasing compression, and available cams, You can get about 1.1hp per cubic inch max. With a 2.8L being 173ci, 190 is about max normally aspirated. Generally, going to a 3.4L is less expensive to get to 200hp than trying to go with a stock 2.8L

The H.O. designation was used on the engines with the larger valved heads. Not all 2.8L engines had the large valve heads. (all Fiero's were H.O. engines)

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Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.

In a larger view, all port injected iron head 2.8's are HO.

I didn't know all port injected iron headed 2.8s were HOs. Sluts.

if you have the money you can buy one with the 3.4L already in it, doug kinney (www.fierowarehouse.com) has a 88GT 5 speed with 3.4L and borla exhaust it has a cracked front bumper but it comes with a replacement bumper, and its got.... T-TOPS!! very nice car, he wants 5k for it firm. black with beechwood interior.

he has several fiero's forsell. check out his site.

ive got a 3.4L getting ready to go into my car. if you have a basic understanding of fiero's and pretty good understand of engines. then it should take no more than 2 weeks of 2-3 hours a day if your very motivated. my first engine drop took me about 5 hours, and i can do them now in about 3 hours, and it takes about 4-5 hours to get them back in.
so 8 hours for in and out time.
then however long it takes you to swap all the parts from the 2.8L to the 3.4L longblock. dont forget www.rodneydickman.com for all the 3.4L guide plates and oil line adapters, and exhaust stud kits.

matthew

Not ALL fuel injected 2.8L heads are H.O. style.
The F-body SE base engine and earlier Cavalier/Sundirds had the small valve heads with port injection. The trucks got the H.O. heads in 85 when they went to TBI. 1986 was the last year the small valve heads were used. They used the small valve heads on the other cars like the Pontiac 6000 (and "clone" cars), The Z-24/Sunbirds, and some Base F-bodies in early 86 then by late 86 everything was H.O. heads. To find out which heads were used on 1986 vehicles, The LB6 engines were small valved and the LB8 engines had the H.O. heads. (Fiero's are L44 engines due to the unique valve covers and intake plenum) The small valved 2.8L fuel injected engines had 125hp/155torque. The H.O. were rated at 140hp/170torque. In 1986 the only engines available with a carb were the 305 V-8 and the 305 H.O. (305 H.O. with carb was the base Trans Am engine or you could get it with TPI injection as an option)

3.4L swaps, if everything is set-up and ready to go, takes about 2-days to do. 1 day to remove the old, clean up things, The second day to install, hook up, and get running. It could be done in one day if you get a few friends to help. Basically it's 4-5 hours to drop the old, and about the same to re-install.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 12-23-2002).]

I had read that 2.8 were 125 hp motors, the fiero came with the 140 2.8 giving it the H.O. rating

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Ed

http://hometown.aol.com/idomy0wnracing

You know I'm seriously considering making a homemade turbocharger for a 2.8 Fiero, getting that magical reliable 200 hp out of it, and running in the 14 sec range. To be honest I just miss that extra kick in the pants my old 5.0L Mustang had...which was the slower GT, but I want it in the Fiero. I don't see much wrong with going this route...so if you want to spruce up the hp of the 2.8 maybe you should consider a turbo.

Turbo's and superchargers will get you to 200hp. Do a search on turbo's and RSM in Canada has a supercharger kit. The SC kit requires you to lose your A/C compressor.
There are a few here who have turbos. If you want the "kick" of your old Mustang, why not go with a 3800SC or even a V-8? Either of these will get you in the 250-300hp range.

quote Originally posted by IDoMy0wn Racing: I had read that 2.8 were 125 hp motors, the fiero came with the 140 2.8 giving it the H.O. rating

125hp/160lb-ft was the rating for the DIS 2.8 for the W, N, J and L bodies. I think those were the only ones with DIS 2.8s.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: Turbo's and superchargers will get you to 200hp. Do a search on turbo's and RSM in Canada has a supercharger kit. The SC kit requires you to lose your A/C compressor. There are a few here who have turbos. If you want the "kick" of your old Mustang, why not go with a 3800SC or even a V-8? Either of these will get you in the 250-300hp range.

Certainly lot's of truth in Oriefs post. An other wise stock 2.8L with a turbo and 9 PSI boost (and a bit of tuning) will get to 190-200 HP. Past 10 psi boost level, the ability of the head gaskets to hold the boost is suspect. The stock 15 lb hr, injectors even at 100% duty cycle won't support in excess of 200 HP.
If you are on a budget you might want to try a DIY Turbo system. That is how I started and eventually the project migrated to a turbo 3.4L. With all of the changes revisions and improvements and tweaks that you'll encounter be prepared to budget $1500.
If you have the money the 3800SC makes for a great swap. There are a few guys on the forum running in the 1/4 mile 12 second bracket with this engine. It would take a pretty stout V8 to achieve better times.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

quote Originally posted by Oreif: (305 H.O. with carb was the base Trans Am engine or you could get it with TPI injection as an option

The base engine for the Trans Am was the LG4 305 not the L69 H.O. The H.O. motor was an option as was the LB9 TPI engine.

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N.I.F.E. Activities Director

the beauty of DOHC.. 180 HP out of 2.3 (2.246 actually) litres of displacement 1.3 HP per cubic inch 200 HP is rather easy with the Q4's, too.. at least the 90-92 Q4 HO's.

The 2.8 just doesn't breathe well enough to get 200 hp N/A. If you want a 200+ hp 60* v6, the 3.4 TDC is the way to go. Probably cost less, too..

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1988 Quad 4 Coupe 5 speed click for more pics
1986 GT 5 speed
AOL: LastMinuteBastrd AIM: SavedbyJebus

[This message has been edited by Standard (edited 12-24-2002).]

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: If you are on a budget you might want to try a DIY Turbo system. That is how I started and eventually the project migrated to a turbo 3.4L. With all of the changes revisions and improvements and tweaks that you'll encounter be prepared to budget $1500.

Singing my tune Dennis. What is the website for DIY? I've found another one from here, http://members.shaw.ca/turbofiero/The%20Kit.htm and his turbo goes for $2000

To be honest, it's really not THAT hard. Though it will take some time.

First of all, you can even use your factory V6/60 engine. ARI Racing Engines
(http://www.engine-parts.com/)
Sell parts specifically for the Fiero. There are a number of options that you can go with. They sell a 2.8 to 3.1 conversion kit, and they even sell a 2.8 to 3.4 conversion kit. You WILL of course need to take your engine to a machine shop to have it bored.

Other than that, you need a neutrally balanced fly-wheel, and a few other items.

Once you have the 3.4 block finished you'll want a few other things.

1) Port and polish to your heads
2) SI racing valves
3) performance hardware (retainers, springs, etc)
4) Crane Cams 1.52:1 roller rockers (though some people use the 1.6:1).

Then, you'll need a GOOD cam-shaft. There are a few that you can choose from. Depending on what TYPE of performance you're looking for, you can go with either the Crane Cams 2020 cam, or the 2030 cam. This will work perfect with your engine, and work with your computer AND give you smooth idle.
These cams cost about $200 each and come with new lifters. There are also other aftermarket cams, like ARI sells Phase 1 and Phase 2 cams (slightly better, but equivelant to the Crane Cam 2020 and 2030 cams).

Bottom line, the 2020 cam will improve low to mid-range torque.

The 2030 cam will improve mid to upper rpm power.

If you have an automatic, I really suggest you go with the 2020 cam to take full advantage. If you have a manual transmission, then I suggest going with the 2030 cam (for the higher RPMS).

You'll want to clean up the block too, and have your oil passages chamfeured (spelling?) or whatever it's called. I'd also get a new oil pan with the Windage tray in it.

Next, you'll need to work on your intake. The stock Fiero intake is perfectly fine. HOWEVER, stock from the factory, the intake pieces match up HORRIBLY. As a matter of fact, on a stock Fiero, just port-matching everything will drastically improve horsepower). In any case, you'll need a PROFESSIONAL port and polish job done to your intake manifold, runners (middle section) and the intake plenum. Then, I suggest having your throttle body bored, you'll pretty much need this. Darrell Morse (MORSE86@aol.com) bores them out to 57mm with all new hardware.

You've got a pretty decent engine at this point. Next you'll need a good exhaust. If you want to remain legal, I say get a GOOD free-flow catalytic converter. You will at the very least NEED to port your exhaust manifolds, but I really suggest getting a set of those FOCOA headers or headers from those other manufacturers that make them for the Fiero.

After that, you should be putting out a DECENT amount of horsepower, and you should be either slightly over, or around 200 horsepower.

A factory 3.4 V6/60 puts out 160hp and 200lbs of torque. With a better cam, you can average anywhere from 12-15 horsepower. With exhaust, intake, and other items, you should be at 200 horsepower.

This will be a reliable engine. You could always turbo it too.

Todd,
1997 Pontiac GrandAm SE
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1984 Pontiac FIero 2m4 SE/WS6
1981 Pontiac TransAm WS6

quote Originally posted by Blade_69: Singing my tune Dennis. What is the website for DIY? I've found another one from here, http://members.shaw.ca/turbofiero/The%20Kit.htm and his turbo goes for $2000

Hey Blade I guess that were are in sync. I am a proponent of using small displacement highly efficiency engines to achieve my goals.
Quite a few Forum members have installed turbochargers and superchargers on their Fieros. There are several websites on these cars but to my knowledge my website is the only one that goes over the process step by step. There are several DIY fuel injection forums but I don't know if there is a DIY turbo forum.
I've done extensive research and have been involved with boosting engines going back 10 years. In the process I have learned much. Turbocharging is a pretty involved process not as simple as just bolting on a turbo and going out racing. With proper planning and tuning you can make tremendous power with a turbo. You can gain 40-50% more horsepower with the right turbo system over whatever you already have.
If I can help please feel free to ask.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: To be honest, it's really not THAT hard. Though it will take some time. Next, you'll need to work on your intake. The stock Fiero intake is perfectly fine. HOWEVER, stock from the factory, the intake pieces match up HORRIBLY. As a matter of fact, on a stock Fiero, just port-matching everything will drastically improve horsepower). In any case, you'll need a PROFESSIONAL port and polish job done to your intake manifold, runners (middle section) and the intake plenum. Then, I suggest having your throttle body bored, you'll pretty much need this. Darrell Morse (MORSE86@aol.com) bores them out to 57mm with all new hardware.

Sorry with all the items you mention above you will not get to 200hp. I would guess You be at about 170-180hp with the combo you mentioned. The intake and TB do not flow enough CFM to support 200hp. You need a different intake or forced induction. The TB even bored out cannot flow more than 320cfm. If you want a 3.4L just get a used 3.4L instead of boring out the 2.8L. Going to 3.4L on a 2.8L block leaves the cylinder walls to their minimum thickness and if you add forced induction or NOS the overbored engine will have a shorter life span.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Hey Blade I guess that were are in sync. I am a proponent of using small displacement highly efficiency engines to achieve my goals.

Hey Dennis. My budget is pretty much the reason for using a turbo. But I do think a turbo will do a good job. I have an 86 SE Auto. What type of performance do you think I can expect? Personally I don't want to drive a stick in Chicago. It was fun in California, but here? Nah! From what I can tell from various sources, I can break 200 relatively easily. Now you said 40 - 50% extra. Is that on the 2.8 or the 3.4 you're running? I have some questions about your mod but I guess I'll stop by your site. Could get answers there.

If money was no object, can you say Z06 405hp LS1? Argh argh argh argh!!!

[This message has been edited by Blade_69 (edited 12-24-2002).]

I'm with Dennis and Blade on this one. My reason for not wanting to use the 3800 II SC or a V8 is mainly due to the $$$ and time and trouble involved. I need something as close to a "bolt in" as possible. A cheap turbo set up seems the most logical to me at this point, provided I'm starting with a VERY decent running engine. I also like to take the occasional trip and going out of state with an electrical water pumped (V8 conversion) engine doesn't sit right with me. Call me old fashioned hehe.

the 3800 is a bullet proof motor. I have a buick with 280000 miles on and I've never hade a problem they can also put out pretty good if you have a supercharger on one look at the 2000 super charged monte carlo ss

I have just spent close to $5000 Canadian on my 2.8L and no it isn't 200 HP. Unfortunately you can't get forged pistons anymore except for custom. So my local parts store told us. TRW isn't making them anymore. If this is wrong please let me know. We have a few people here in Canada that need them. But anyways, I have TRW pistons, Molly rings, 1.6:1 roller tip rockers, 0.039" head gaskets, Arp head studs, rod bolts, V-8 profiled custom cam, 17 lb/hr injectors, ported manifolds, gasket matched everything andam waiting for the NOS. I have done several mods not listed due to time and memory. I built this engine for NOS and maybe a turbo or supercharger later on if it lives. I have long tube headers on the way next month for it as well. The way I did things is not the cheapest or the best for max HP. But it is what I wanted to do for my first Fiero project car. I have built other cars and trucks in the past that are a lot faster than my Fiero, but not as FUN.

Just my $.02

Mike 86 SE Modified
"RED DEVIL"