I replaced both front rotors, pads all the way around, and one rear caliper and my brakes still suck. They're very spongy(sp?) like there's air in the lines, but Im positive there's not. The pedal goes damn near to the floor. Im I try to lock them up, I can but barely. Are they all this bad? This is the first car Ive had with a plastic resevoir and lid, are you supposed to hear a "Shhhh" when you press down on the pedal(with the hood up and standing there)?

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'73 Pontiac Formula
Coolest body lines of
all time
'85 Fiero GT 2M6/Auto
Stock and boring for now
'92 Dakota Sport
425hp 360+NOS...just in case
'01 Durango R/T
Stock and determined
to keep it that way

my brakes would go to the floor also, and i took it to my local mechanic, and saw that my fluid looked like mud. In which it should be clear. There was also air in the system, but you should definetly check the brake fluid, it might need to be change all togethar. I got the shhhhhh sound too when my brakes were **** , but after the mechanic cleaned out the fluid and bleed the brakes, they are fine now.

-Coop

[This message has been edited by Coop9200 (edited 11-25-2002).]

Huh! Well mines definately brown, but not real muddy, as in thick and gloppy. It probably would'nt be a bad idea to drain the whole system since my car sat alot before I bought it. Its probably absorbed alot of moisture. *sigh* There goes another weekend, working on the Fiero.

Anyone got any thing else I should checkout?

Hate to start throwing parts at it, but could it be your master cylinder?

The sound you hear could be the seals around the piston allowing fluid to bypass instead of pressurize.

Had a similar situation on my pickup, I could stop but just barely.

Just a thought, good luck.

Jon

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Last_Dodo@hotmail.com

YES, my other car really is a Jet

Spongy pedal is nearly always air in the system. Rear calipers can be especially difficult to bleed. tap on the caliper with a wood block to help shake out air. If it really want to be a pain, unbolt and turn the piston towar the ground a little. It can be hard to get an air bubble out of the piston at times.

The sound you hear could just be air moving thu the brake booster. Some can be a little noisy. Worst case, the brake booster is going bad.
You want that checked out very carefully. Don't try to take the booster appart. Things will likely go flying if you do.

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11-Sept-01, The day the world as we knew it ended.

I dont know why people have so much trouble with the stock brakes. I just totally rebuilt them when i started on my kit. They work fine for me and they got 100K on them and still the same pads even. I may have to replace the rears this summer, there a little low. The only problem Ive ever had was warping the rotors when i tried a set of 'Kleen Wheels' (bad idea)

You may even have to remove the caliper to bleed them so that the bleeder valve is at the very top. You’ll have to tap them too!

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Not much to do with solving the problem but thought i might lend a little fluid maint advice. Rubber seals on calipers over time bring in moisture which turnd the fluid to a coke brown color like your experiencing. A big side effecf of this is that it will corrode the materials int he caliper and eventually seize it. One thing to help prevent this is every time your change your pads or even once every 3 months or so. Just quickly bleed the fluid out of the calipers. this takes but a few seconds and is well worth it.

As for the air bubble...this is the reason for the spongy feeling. Liquid cannot be compressed, even if you were running water in your brake lines you wouldnt experience any difference in feeling. the tiniest air bubble can cause the problem.

[This message has been edited by ItzDaFieroGT (edited 11-25-2002).]

Properly adjusted the Fiero has excellent brakes. This includes replacing anything as necessary. I've driven many Fieros that other people owned that I would not drive far. I like a car the STOPS. 87 was definitely the best year....besides 88 which we aren't discussing.

phil

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GTDude
OVER 25 years GM experience

Since nobody mentioned it...

Make sure your rears are adjusted up. Assuming everything is hooked up right, this can be done by working the parking brake a few times. Also, after 15 years or so those rubber brake hoses could be on the way out too.

I wouldn't go so far as to say stock Fiero brakes are the greatest but they do stop ok and don't have any quirks other than overheating sorta fast with extended abuse. I recently replaced everything on the front of mine (rotors, calipers, pads, hoses) and not long ago put rear calipers & pads on. Brake pedal is firm and there is no pull. On an autocross course with racing tires I can lock up all 4 if I stand on it - just not too many times in a row

I have that same spongy feeling, I recently replaced all rotors, all pads and 3 calipers. I bled the brakes twice because they were spongy after the 1st time, I did it carefully the second time and i got the same result. I tightened the parking brake too. The resevoir was full the whole time I bled them, well, i had to top it off everytime. I know the problem is caused by air in the lines and i didnt tap the calipers, i never knew about that, this was my first brake job. and i do not feel like bleeding them again. well ill figure it out if it becomes a problem, cause i can drive around and brake when i have to. the car will be certified in the spring so i have time to play around with everything.

Like Ogre said, spongy brakes are almost always air in the system. About the only other thing it could be is bad flexible lines. If they are weak and bulge, that will give you a spongy feel too. if they were solid before the work, then it's just air.

I hate to disagree with GTDude since he's usually right on the money with his advice and comments, but I would not say 84-87 Fiero brakes are "excellent". Maybe "adequate" is a better word to use when they are working like they should. In my humble opinion, the stock brakes could definitely be better. Pontiac must of thought so too, because they made improvements on the 88 brakes.

I dont know about over there in the USA, but here in the UK we can get "Pressure Bleeding kits" from the local accessory shop.

These generally attach to a car tyre, which then connects to a secondry bottle which then connects to your brake fluid tank.
the whole hydraulic system then pressurises to about 30 psi and pushes the dirty fluid / air out of the system.

I have found this to be very successful in the past on SAAB's and BMW. But dont know how well it will work on a Fiero.

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Regards,

Paul Taylor, England.
85 GT, 2.8 V6.

HI guys
Seams like I am not the only one w/ brake problems. This has been VERY frustrating to me and I am hoping that some of you guys can help me out or point me to the right direction.... this is what I have done: Berreta/Grand am conversion front and rear all new calipers and rotors, stanley steel brake lines, 94 Blazer master cylinder and new "organic" brake pads from AutoZone. The brakes are better than before but a 96 Honda civic w/ rear drum brakes and every thing stock stops faster and has much better pedal feel than my 85 v6 auto w/ all the "improvements". I have used 2 quarts of brake flds bleeding the brakes untill the flds came out like new -but I never knew about tapping the calipers, I will try that- I had a friend who is a mechanic come over and checked the brake booster -which is the only part I have not replaced- and he said the brake booster was fine since it was creating vacum. Well I was thinking that it was maybe the pads because they are the regular organic pads, not the semi-metalic, when I'am bleeding the brakes w/ the car off the pedal gets really firm but then when I am done and I go and turn on the car the pedal feel goes away... I am sorry for such a long post but I am really hoping one of you guys could help me out

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison:I dont know why people have so much trouble with the stock brakes.

I dont either that's why Im asking. I have never had any problems dealing with any other cars brakes. Ive worked on nearly every thing you can possibly imagine and have never had so many headaches related to the brakes!

An update: I took my car to a shop to have it aligned and mentioned my spongy pedal. He said it appears that my right front caliper may not be retracting back right away after pressing on the brakes. He said other then that everything looks great and he re-bled the lines and said he did'nt get any air either. So he said he'd play around with it a little and see if its going to need to be replaced or not. That's the last Ive heard and wont know more until tomorrow. Im just glad a fix might be found!

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'73 Pontiac Formula
Coolest body lines of
all time
'85 Fiero GT 2M6/Auto
Stock and boring for now
'92 Dakota Sport
425hp 360+NOS...just in case
'01 Durango R/T
Stock and determined
to keep it that way

Okay, my brakes haven't been that great, I can lock the fronts but never the rears. So I decided to drain the brake fluid, as it's as black as black can be, and flush the system.

End result is I can't seem to lock the fronts as easily as before, stopping seems to be a little worse. At this point I think it's safe to say that the dirty fluid has no real effect on the brakes, so I wouldn't bother flushing out the system.

As it is I'm going to bleed mine again this weekend I think, just to see if I possibly got air in the line (doubtful).

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87 GT 3.4 V6 Fiero Automatic

quote Originally posted by batboy: Like Ogre said, spongy brakes are almost always air in the system. About the only other thing it could be is bad flexible lines. If they are weak and bulge, that will give you a spongy feel too. if they were solid before the work, then it's just air. I hate to disagree with GTDude since he's usually right on the money with his advice and comments, but I would not say 84-87 Fiero brakes are "excellent". Maybe "adequate" is a better word to use when they are working like they should. In my humble opinion, the stock brakes could definitely be better. Pontiac must of thought so too, because they made improvements on the 88 brakes.

Ok.....so they aren't EXCELLENT but better than 90% of the cars out there of near that age......that is when at their optimum.

Phil

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GTDude
OVER 25 years GM experience

Don has to replace the front pads in my car one year, then the rear pads the next year. So every year one set needs replaced. He says it's the way I drive, but i've never had this problem in any other car i've owned. Is this a common problem in the 84s?

most cars will wear out 2 sets of pads to each one of rears. That is because when you stop the large majority of car weight shift to the front, so they do most of the stopping. I wear out my rear ones first because I had a habit of not completely releasing E brakes (duhhhhhhh) But I have put 100K on one set of pads and theres still lining left.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 11-27-2002).]

just a side guess. probaly not it since you didn't mention any engine performance probs, but maybe the power brake booster? i only mention it because of the noise you're hearing. happened on an s10 blazer i had. brakes didn't work well, plus when i pushed the pedal i created a vacume leak that just for a second made my idle fall off and almost stall. i also heard the hissing noise from the leak. plugged the line and of course the brakes got worse, but the idle stayed steady and the hiss was gone. keep it in mind if nothing else pans out.

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Phil T.

start where you are,
use what you have,
do what you can. arthur ashe

i may be changed by what happens to me,
but i refuse to be reduced by it. maya angelou