I'm looking for advice on running compressed air lines in my garage. Hard lines to various locations around the garage.

What kind of pipe do you recommend?

Advice on the routing?

Condensate drains, regulators, filters, any of that stuff?

Thanks.

Bob

The setup I have uses 3/4" copper pipe to 4 drops. The last drop is for an air hose reel with a 25' 3/8" line on it (wish it was longer). Coming right off the compressor, the line goes to a moisture remover then to an adjustable regulator. I got the ones from Campbell Housefeld...those seemed good quality. I have two spots where I added a drain to occasionally drain the condensation. But most of the moisture stays in the compressor tank and is trapped before the regulator. At each drop I have a shut-off valve and a quick connect fitting.

Looking back, I think using PVC pipe would have worked just as well. It withstands pressure of 600psi.

Steve

Looking back, I think using PVC pipe would have worked just as well. It withstands pressure of 600psi.

You did yourself a favor using copper. I used plastic and it causes many problems. One, yea, it's rated for 600PSI. I used that logic too. But, I'm told that if it shatters because it's bumped and cold, it will really hurt you. I guess that sounds right. Mine is already installed behind the drywall for the most part so it's staying. But I do know this for a fact. When the air is compressed, it picks up and holds a good amount of moisture. The water filters need the water in droplets to work so you need to reduce the temp and lower the dew point. Then, when the stuff condenses, the water filters can do the job. This all means that a good run of copper or steel pipe with the trap near the end will give the best results. I had to make a 4 loop condenser using steel pipe to get my water out. In the plastic, it just wouldn't condense. Also, you need a drip leg and drain valve after the water trap to have an additional collection/drain system. Finally, I can paint without all the moisture in the paint. It don't take much to wreck a good job. When it was only the PVC and water filter, My tools looked like Niagara Falls. Hope this helps. I also hope others can help add some suggestions as this is an important system for you and it needs to be done as best as you can.

Grgoyle86,
What you should use is Schedule 40 Black Iron Pipe with NPT connections. It's the black gas pipe and fittings at the hardware thats next to all that galvanized water pipe. 3/4" PIPE size would be ample to supply an average domestic garage (say 20' x 24') with up to 150 psi and (3) 1/2"supply bibs (generally). Copper tubing is ok but isn't as durable mechanically and copper piping is too expensive.
Route your main supply header up fropm your storage tank to a union, moisture remover then a filter/regulator/lubricator combination. From there you route the header around the perimeter of your garage with vertical drops and reduce to 1/2" for equipment or shutoffs. Terminate the header with a vertical drop and a shutoff valve and a cap, used to occasionally drain the moisture on long headers.
Fasten the piping at every change of direction and at every device/valve. Good idea=teflon tape for sealing all threads.
Marty

Since I do mechanical engineering here's what I would recommend. You can use either schedule 40 black iron piping or copper piping. Iron piping will require that you have access to either a set of hand threaders or a threading machine. Copper piping will require either brazed or siver soldered joints, brass valves/couplers and a minimum of type L copper pipe. Either method is easy to install so the choice is up to you. Personally I think the copper system is easiest. Material costs will vary depending upon where you live. Make sure you install a moisture trap of some sort.

Hope this helps!

Sourmug

I used 1/2" polyethelene tubing, its light and flexible, can handle plenty of pressure and works fine with standard compression fittings. Its also good because it's very clean inside, no problems with particulates if you are going to do any painting. Any good plumbing supply should have it, I got mine from work so it was even cheaper. Make sure whatever you use that you have a moisture trap/drain near the compressor so you dont get water in all the lines.

I used 1/2" galvanized pipe with Teflon tape on the threads. I do remember in one of the car magazines saying you could use schedule 40 PVC, but I have never tried it myself ??? I also mounted my compressor up high on the wall for floor space is scares in my garage. It makes it easy to reach the petcock too. I used a separate regulator/dryer mounted on the wall with in easy reach

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LS1 in and running :)

http://ls1swap.tripod.com/

Here's a tip:

Where ever you place the drops, run the drop down the wall to a T junction.

X______X
X______X
X______X
X______X
X______X
############
#_shut off______#
#__valve_______#
############
X______X
X______X
X______X
TTTTTTTT
T______T________QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
T______TTTTTTTQQQ______________Q
T_T-junction___T____quick__________Q
T_____________T___disconnect_____Q
T______TTTTTTTQQQ_____________Q
T______T________QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
TTTTTTTT
X______X
X______X
X______X
X______X
DVDVDVDVDV
V________D
D________V (drain valve at the end of the drop)
V________D
D________V
VDVDVDVDVD

By setting up your drops like this, you can shut off the air supply, decompress the end of the drop, and drain any condensation from the drop. Plus, if you find any contractor info on compressed air drops, they recommend the T junction for the quick disconnect as a safety factor - has to do with the pressure at the end of the line, and you don't want the quick disconnect there especially if you change hoses frequently. You can also add a pressure regulator on the T junction to regulate the pressure in the hose.

[This message has been edited by lateFormula (edited 10-29-2002).]

[This message has been edited by lateFormula (edited 10-29-2002).]

[This message has been edited by lateFormula (edited 10-29-2002).]

[This message has been edited by lateFormula (edited 10-29-2002).]

Here's some diagrams for air drops.

The first drop is for paint spraying and the second one is for standard air tools.

Sourmug

Im going to be running air lines in my garage right after i drywall my ceiling.

Theres a lot of forums that have this discussion. I have an article of the pcv used for airlines in a garage, i can scan it later, i just got home from work.

But what i have read is that, pvc has the danger of exploding into small pieces. No matter what the pressure rating of pvc has labeled on the pip itself. Government regulations state that PVC is only used for electrical lines (depending on code), and water. While iron pipe and or galvanized is designed for gas, water and other uses.

Harbor freight has a cheap kit to thread iron piping. Also, im going to go with 3/4" pipe, to pack more air, plus its also acts like a small tank after the compressor tank is filled.

Im planning to route my lines just as Sourmug has designed. Its a good idea to seperate your air line for painting. Plus theres even better air dryer type filters that you can buy for sandblasting and or painting. Ill post a link of a good catalog that sells blasting equipment.

------------------
74 Vw Beetle
83 Honda Nighthawk 550
84 Pontiac Fiero
87 Ford Thunderbird Turbo

Selling a car is like giving your own kid for adoption.

Iron pipe isn't that hard to work.

You can usually rent a pipe threader easy enough. Even electric ones for a big job. You can get various lengths of threaded stuff at home improvment stores. Many will also thread custom lengths for you. (Home Depot does.)

I would never use plastic pipe for anything exposed on a wall surface. Yes, it will blow out if impacted. If it must be used, keep it up higher where you are less likely to hit it. Also install something for strain relief for when you yank a hose. (Just like you would for electrical cords.) Schedule 40 is tough but not bullet proof. You'd be surprised how easy it can break when it wants.

What ever pipe you use should run down hill from the compressor. Not level. Treat it like a drain pipe. You don't want water pooling in it. The last thing on any line should be a drain. At the least it should be like the drawings above with a water catch below the outlet.

Unless you are running a refrigerated dryer or live in death valley... you will nearly always blow water down the pipe even with water traps on the head end. We used to run a trap by the compressor and another one for the tire machine and another for the paint station. You had to empty all of them just about every day. Sometime more in wet weather. (On top of draining the compressor tank regularly. That should be done every day the compressor is run for any length of time.)

If you want a big water trap.... find a junked semi. Those have huge ones. You probably don't want the auto dumper type. Those make a pretty large racket and mess when they dump.

------------------
11-Sept-01, The day the world as we knew it ended.

I actually dont have any metal or plastic piping at all. I use only quality hose with a good regulator/trap. I havent had any problems and its ez to replace every 5 years or so. Trick is to have the trap far enough from compressor to allow moisture to condense.

If you use PVC (I DID), make sure you use Schedule 80. If you go to 1", which you should, the working pressure of schedule 40 is something like 160 pounds.

We run 175 psi in our shop and ruptured 2 pieces of schedule 40 before we gave up and replumbed with schedule 80. If you think it's a pain to do the first time, wait till you have to do it over!!

John Stricker

edited a typo

quote Originally posted by TooManyFieros: Looking back, I think using PVC pipe would have worked just as well. It withstands pressure of 600psi. You did yourself a favor using copper. I used plastic and it causes many problems. One, yea, it's rated for 600PSI. I used that logic too. But, I'm told that if it shatters because it's bumped and cold, it will really hurt you. I guess that sounds right. Mine is already installed behind the drywall for the most part so it's staying. But I do know this for a fact. When the air is compressed, it picks up and holds a good amount of moisture. The water filters need the water in droplets to work so you need to reduce the temp and lower the dew point. Then, when the stuff condenses, the water filters can do the job. This all means that a good run of copper or steel pipe with the trap near the end will give the best results. I had to make a 4 loop condenser using steel pipe to get my water out. In the plastic, it just wouldn't condense. Also, you need a drip leg and drain valve after the water trap to have an additional collection/drain system. Finally, I can paint without all the moisture in the paint. It don't take much to wreck a good job. When it was only the PVC and water filter, My tools looked like Niagara Falls. Hope this helps. I also hope others can help add some suggestions as this is an important system for you and it needs to be done as best as you can.

[This message has been edited by jstricker (edited 10-30-2002).]

quote Originally posted by LS1swap: ...mounted my compressor up high on the wall for floor space... It makes it easy to reach the petcock too.

That's my favorite tip! Hung my compressor in center of garage ceiling, motor/baseplate in the "attic," tank hanging down. Petcock just above eye level, FRL unit a bit higher (on side of tank), easy to reach yet out of the way, face of gage pointed downward for easy reading. Hoses (oiled & non-oiled) are coiled and hung from the compressor tank's "feet." Very convenient and space-saving.

Motor in attic is quieter. True, have to use ladder to check oil but overall I like the setup.

This is a good thread.

Wow!

Thanks for all the tips!

There has been a lot of opinins here about iron pipe and plastic pipe. Not much mention of copper. I know they use a lot of copper in the plants at the company I work for. What are your opinons about that on here.

About the compressor up high - great idea. But, I have an attic in the garage, with full stairs, so the space under the stairs works well for me. Can't do much else with that space anyway.

Keep the comments coming!

Bob

Well, if it was me, I wouldn't use plastic period. There are too many fracture issues with plastic. I would run copper as I indicated in my previous post. It's easier to install than black iron, doesn't rust and is more resistant to fracture than plastic. It's also easy to modify once installed if your requirements change. There's a reason that many manufacturing and process plants use copper pipe for compressed air. Just my two cents worth.

Sourmug

[This message has been edited by Sourmug (edited 10-30-2002).]

Grgoyle86,
You can make the C.A. Supply from any of the materials previously mentioned. Functionalty, durabilty, ease of installation, serviceabilty and aesthetics are valid factors in your decision. One note about sizing tho. The iron pipe sizes that you are looking at are measured in terms of I.D.(inside diameter) for nominal sizes. The tubing used for copper(type L, M and O), PVC and polyethylene have their nominal sizes measured with O.D.'s (outside dimaeters). Therefore a 1" iron pipe has more open area than 1" tubing. There is also the issue of smoothness on the inside surface but thats more important in liquids. Good luck!

Sorry guys! I meant to post this earlier in the thread but could not find the picture. But here it is...

For those who advised to use PVC, I urge you to please reconsider. Below is a piece of Schedule 80 PVC pipe and the new ABS (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene) Plastic pipe after pressurized at 100psi and hit with a hammer.

As you can see the PVC became a shrap metal bomb. Very very dangerous. The ABS rupture but it maintained its form.

I will also advice against any metal piping other than maybe copper. Specially if you intend to put filters along the lines.
Iron, Galvanized and so forth, will corrode over time, releasing particles which can plug up your filters and separators.

I would not have anything else but ABS.

just my .02

------------------
Winston Ojeda
88 Fiero Formula LT1
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
http://www.FieroLT1.com
Home of the Fiero LT1

I have my shop done with pvc with three drops, one being for a hose real. If you get the right stuff with the right psi you should be fine.

Copper tubing is not the same as copper pipe. While is is true that tubing is measured outside dimension, type L copper is pipe, not tubing, and it is still measured inside dimension.

Sourmug

Sourmug,
Good catch on the type "L". However, my point was the larger open area of pipe verses tubing.
Winston,
What type of fittings did you use with the ABS? And what was the cost?

Yeah, tell us more about this ABS.

Anyone have any websites about any of this?

I'm digging this one out again to see if we can get any more info on the ABS piping.

Anyone?

What about using copper pipe with compression fittings, instead of brazing or soldering the joints?

My setup is basically the same as Mize. I also have an oiling device at the hose end to keep the air tools lubricated.
Isn't the steel tubing a little overkill in a home garage? I mean it would handle a lot of pressure, but isn't the intent of using it is to prevent an accidental puncture (car hitting it or something)? I mean you could whack steel with a hammer and it wouldn't break/puncture, cooper probably would..Paul

One thing to keep in mind here is that plastic pipe is a code violation for compressed air, it is known to be unsafe by more people than just the others on this forum. At a shop it must be remembered if it blows and injures someone you will be dealing with OSHA and others. At home it is just a dangerous thing to do. Copper or iron pipe are the ONLY safe choices.

DO NOT use PVC. If you hit the pipe and it breaks, it will explode and turn into shrapnel.

I'be plumbed my garage with 1" Schedule 40 PVC with no problems whatsoever. I'm located in Sacramento, so I can't address vulnerability to cold. The connection at my compressor goes into a two-outlet manifold, with a regulator on one output for painting and unregulated output for air tools. A flexible hose goes to my in-garage plumbing; I switch from one output to the other depending on what I need. I run 125 PSI, but that's enough to break a wheel stud if you're not careful.

Raydar:

You could use compression fittings as long as they are rated for the pressure that you will be running in the system. Silver solder or brazed joints would be cheaper due to the cost of the compression fittings.

Sour

[This message has been edited by Sourmug (edited 01-09-2003).]

Sourmug,

Thanks! I'm not going to say that cost is not an issue, but my pipe soldering skills are pretty much nonexistant. Have seen copper water pipe (same thing?) soldered quite a few times, but have never done it myself.

------------------
Raydar

Out of my mind. Back in 30 minutes.

Raydar:

Siver soldering and brazing are not quite the same as soldering water lines. You have to heat the pipe and fittings to a much higher temperature for this method and the rod will melt and flow into the joint. Once this is done and the pipe cools you can't really heat it up again and take it apart like you could do with normal soldering. It's really not too hard to do and I'm sure that there must be a DIY site on the net somewhere that will show you how to do it!

Sour

quote Originally posted by grgoyl86: I'm digging this one out again to see if we can get any more info on the ABS piping. Anyone?

Oh yeah! I remember this thread.
Here is some more info:

ABS is not cheap, but cheaper than metal. However, if you value your safety and that of those around you, then it is a non-issue.

ABS is available from plumbing supply houses throughout North America or seach the Net for "ABS pipes & fittings". Make sure it says "Pressure ABS".

I've also added some diagrams to my web site that I think will be helpful in plumbing your shop.
They are a bit on the "Pro" side, but just extract what works for you.
These are from the pre-ABS era, you'll notice references to steel and copper still.
To see the documents you'll also need Adobe Acrobat installed on your machine in order to view them. Here they are:
www.fierolt1.com/docs/pipe-layout-simple.pdf
www.fierolt1.com/docs/pipe-layout-cmplx.pdf

REMEBER: The only "safe" and "up-to-code" way you could use PVC is by enclosing it in conduit.

Hope this helps,

------------------
Winston Ojeda
88 Fiero Formula LT1
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
http://www.FieroLT1.com
Home of the Fiero LT1

[This message has been edited by FieroLT1 (edited 01-09-2003).]

[This message has been edited by FieroLT1 (edited 01-09-2003).]

[This message has been edited by FieroLT1 (edited 01-09-2003).]

One feature you may want to consider adding in order to get good dry air - dry enough to paint without fear!!

I hooked up a surplus A/C condenser to the discharge of my air compressor, then ran a line from it to a moisture trap and from the trap into my air header. I then put the condenser into an ice chest full of ice. Worked like a charm - I had gobs of water coming out the trap and had to drain the separator about every 10 minutes (I live in Houston the humidity capital of the nation).

For a permanent solution, I'm going to run a line through the freezer portion of the refrigerator in my garage. I'll let you know how it works as soon as the wife leaves for a weekend. It's about time for her to visit family!!!!

Also, I agree with the others recommendation to stay away from PVC, black and galvanized pipe. Reasons given are legitimate and not being overly cautious. Copper tubing and/or pipe is the only way to go and the incremental cost to do it right is pretty minimal. Brazing of copper pipe is easy too.

Good luck,

Karl

Remember everyone here that promotes plastic pipe. It is not safe, but that does not necessaryly mean that you are going to be hurt. Sort of like walking away from a car accident is not evidance that car accidents are safe. Plastic pipe in an air system is an accident waiting to happen.

I dont have any pipe. I have water separator and regulator and use all quality rubber hose. Larger diameter from compressor to trap, then just reg 3/8 everywhere else. Worked in my shop like that for decades.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I dont have any pipe. I have water separator and regulator and use all quality rubber hose. Larger diameter from compressor to trap, then just reg 3/8 everywhere else. Worked in my shop like that for decades.

I've been doing that too. My garage is about 25' X 35' - just not big enough to bother with plumbing. I have a pair of water traps at the compressor. One big one followed by a smaller one with a regulator. With an 80 gal vertical tank most of the condensate falls in the tank. My traps will collect a little water if I am using a die grinder, DA sander, or painting. The only water I have seen on the other end has been condensation on my tools near the exhaust from the pressure drop (cold), not water coming thru the hose. My paint gun is HVLP so there is minimal pressure drop at the tool end of the hose and no water drops in the finish.