I'm curious as to what chip those of you with 3.4's are using, i.e. year and car model if it's a stock one. I'm currently using the 87 GT chip (stock) in my car.

Has anyone changed to an 88 (GT or Formula)chip? And if so did you see any improvement?

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87 GT 3.4 V6 Fiero Automatic

*bump*

IMO the only chip to use in the 3.4L is a custom chip. The timing, fueling and flow characteristics of the 3.4L engine differ dramatically from that of the 2.8L. Using the stock 2.8L chip doesn't optimize power or drivability with this engine.
Most of the performance chips like those from Hypertech and ADS just add power enrichment and do little good.
I have several different flavors of 3.4L chips that I have developed over the past year and may be offering these to the Fiero community in the near future. The problem is that you really can't offer a "generic" chip. If an engine has had mods it will have special programming needs and that needs to be taken into consideration.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

I didn't see the above post before I replied!!

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I am waiting for my new chip (PROM) to show up from FieroJoe. He has a modified PROM that he says works great with the 2.8 ECM when installing the 3.4L.

I don't have his contact info in front of me, but if you want it, let me know. I'll find it.

He is selling the chip and a low temp thermostat (160F) for $120, shipped.

Steve

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[This message has been edited by mize (edited 09-24-2002).]

Generic 3.4L chip:

At a minimum you could set both base pulse widths to match the injector size so you folks don't have to dork the fuel pressure around to get some reasonable BLM's. WOT AFR might need to be tweaked but the stock 12:1 would work well enough if you folks can't get together. GM runs them rich as it is so you would likely be ok.

I agree that full blown custom is nice but there are several things you could do to make a "generic chip" that would be far better than what you are working with.

Were all of the 3.4L Camaro's flash or did any have mem-cals? If someone would send me a 3.4L mem-cal......Otherwise someone gets to go for a long VE drive.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 09-24-2002).]

Another option few here have tried is a purely customized chip programmed by Westers Garage in Canada.
Lyndon the owner has been an expert at chip design and performance programming for many years.
He simply asks detailed questions about your fiero, engine, injectors size, cam, mods, turbo, etc. then programs (more than 40 parameters) and sends the chip. Friends who know my car then drove in my car after I recieved his chip were astounded. That great torquey power band was the same just much more power.
The first chip I recieved did'nt work properly because I told him the wrong injector size. He quickly sent another chip out for free that has worked perfectly.

The kicker though is that as you make major performance changes (mods, turbo etc.) that require a chip change he will send you a new chip updated with that change for free for as long as you own your car!, who else is doing that!

http://www.eidnet.org/local/westers_garage/

or 1-888-wester1.
87gt 3.4

[This message has been edited by vse1fiero@cox.net (edited 09-25-2002).]

Just how long a VE drive we talking here TK? I have a lot of time on my hands right now...

(And what does VE stnad for anyway?)

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87 GT 3.4 V6 Fiero Automatic

I'm using my stock 2.8 Hypertech Stage III but I agree with Denis. You need custom. I went the Dynotuner route in my case.

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Alex4mulas :-)
N2O! 3.4!

I have a dynotuner, just thinking of maybe upgrading the chip too, then using the tuner to make custom adjustments. Just don't know if I should go get an expensive custom chip, or start with a standard one from an 88GT or Formula. If one of those would be better then the 87GT chip I currently have.

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87 GT 3.4 V6 Fiero Automatic

watch over the following weeks for the dynotuner release of chip set for 3.4 reset to run in conjunction with the power tuner... Alex will be the first with this set up. his dyno sheets will be posted once we have completed testing. the 2.8 research starts saturday morning...

I won't be using any chip or ECM when I install my 3.4L.

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Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: I won't be using any chip or ECM when I install my 3.4L.

I take it that means that you will use a carburetor. If so I really doubt that you'll achieve better performance than with fuel injection. With all of the headaches IMO EFI is still the way to go for best power, efficiency, engine life and mileage.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I take it that means that you will use a carburetor. If so I really doubt that you'll achieve better performance than with fuel injection. With all of the headaches IMO EFI is still the way to go for best power, efficiency, engine life and mileage.

Sorry but engine life, efficiency, and power will be better for the engine I am building. I really don't care about gas mileage but am willing to bet it's the same or better. The present EFI systems availble for normally aspirated 3.4L engines are seriously lacking in efficiency.
Many are running either too rich or too lean which is bad for engine reliability and hurts power.

This has already been discussed on a few threads here. Most folks with a normally aspirated 3.4L engine are only making 160-180 horsepower. There are a few who have tuned the EFI systems and have gotten to 190-200hp. My "carb'd" engine will be over 200hp.

Problems with a normally aspirated 3.4L are first the Fiero intake system is not the best flowing intake on the larger displacemnet engine. Second, Unless you want to spend the money to re-program the PROM or use the Dynotuner your efficiency is worse than a badly tuned carb. Third, the H.O. cast heads are not the best flowing heads. You need to have a lot of head work just to get the same flow as a stock GENIII aluminum head. In order to get the most out of the intake system, A designed cam is needed to utilize the advantages and limit the dis-advantages of the heads being used. This requires ALL engine components to be tuned to work with each other.

The best engine for reliability, performance, power, engine life, and efficiency is one that has been designed to work with all the components used and is properly tuned.

Using a EFI system and programming for a smaller displacement engine on a larger displacement engine reduces all the above. Ask anyone who builds engines. Yes a PROPERLY TUNED EFI system can create lots of power. Note that it needs to be properly tuned. Has anyone properly tuned a 3.4L engine? The Dynotuner looks like a step in the right direction for EFI systems.

Lets look at something, A 3.4L engine with your camshaft and a bored Fiero intake produces 172hp using a desktop dyno program.
(The program ALWAYS assumes correct timing and fuel curves) I apply 10psi of turbo boost and I get a 45% increase in power which shows 248 hp.

Same program with my cam and carb shows my engine at 215hp. If I went forced induction, (Fageol Supercharger with 5psi of boost) I get a 35% increase making my peak HP at 290hp. Which calculates to 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and 13.1 seconds in the 1/4 mile.
(Using a 3.33 auto trans)

Not bad for an "Antiquated" fuel system compared to your "modern" EFI.

BTW ~ Everyone who has used desktop dyno software will tell you the results can be off by +/- 5%. So just to add to the comparison, Let's give Dennis the +5% for his "Modern" EFI and me -5% for my "antiquated" carb.

Dennis:
Base 181hp Turbo 260hp
Mine:
Base 204hp SC 275hp

I don't know the total cost of your engine, or the amount of money you spent on getting the properly tuned PROM's, But to build the carb'd supercharged engine is only $2200 in parts and $600 in labor for a machine shop.
(That is buying the supercharger NEW not used)

It's not that it's EFI or Carb'd that matters, It's how the engine is designed/built. Small displacement, moderate flowing engines are better suited for a carb than EFI. All GM, Ford, Mopar, Honda, Toyota, BMW, etc, are designed to provide gas mileage, low emissions, and decent performance.

I designed my engine for performance and power, not gas mileage or emissions.

So yes, I will achieve better performance, power, engine life, and efficiency than a typical normally aspirated EFI 3.4L. As for headaches, If you know how to work on a carb and understand how it works, tuning is easy.
You change $400 injectors, I just change $14.00 jets and metering rods.

(For those interested in supercharging their engines, See http://www.fageolsuperchargers.com/
or http://614streets.com/Fageol.html )*

*= Thanks to Leper for the links.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 09-26-2002).]

well, that supercharger sure is impressive!
so your gonna have a carb & air cleaner sticking out of yer back deck? gonna still use ECM timing advance or going with centrifugal / vacuum advance?

What exactly is the 3.4L chip going to do in conjunction with the dynotuner Travis? I am really interested in this chip. Travis how much are you going to be selling the chip for? Let me know.

Amir

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1987 GT 5 spd: 2.8L
(15.57 @ 87mph)
1988 Formula 5 spd: 3.4
(15.56 @ 84mph)

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I take it that means that you will use a carburetor. If so I really doubt that you'll achieve better performance than with fuel injection. With all of the headaches IMO EFI is still the way to go for best power, efficiency, engine life and mileage.

Don't forget that the Fiero intake and injection setup was designed for a 2.8L. It can't flow enough to properly feed a strong 3.4, so yes, the carb will give better performance. It may loose a bit in mileage, though.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: well, that supercharger sure is impressive! so your gonna have a carb & air cleaner sticking out of yer back deck? gonna still use ECM timing advance or going with centrifugal / vacuum advance?

Yes a mechanical distributor is used.
I just received an Email from Fageol on the SC. They sent me all the drawings of the SC, including internal, external parts, measurements, a parts list, and all the different pulleys. I have to take some measurements, But rough calculations are it will fit under the decklid. (85-88 with the hump)The blower is only 4" tall and the manifold sits lower than the stock bottom manifold. Still investigating that part. I sent them my specs on the engine and they say I can go up to 7psi as it sits. So I'll get 38-40% increase.
BTW ~ They do have a 9psi pulley set for engines with 8.5:1 compression like the stock 2.8L. Just put in the cam and carb and away you go!

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 09-27-2002).]

EXCELLENT rebuttal Orief, it's hard to argue with the facts as presented

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bump