You guys running quartermaster clutches convinced me that it's the best way to go, but now i don't know which one you're using. I want to use a 7.25" dual disc, but i don't understand the difference between the "V-drive" and the "pro series". Could one of you please tell me the difference between them.

That confused me too, I think it's old info. Just call QM talk to Mark Disch, and ask for the "7.25" 2-plate, organic clutch" and he'll know what you're talking about.

PS: Drop the extra $90 or so on the billett aluminum Super Pro pressure plate, it's *heluva* sweet! )

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

thanks for the info ben. So you're saying that there is no longer a v-drive or pro series but just one series with different discs? Also what makes the super pro pressure plate so much better? wouldn't mind hearing from CaliKid on this one too.

Trevor

After browsing the QM catalog, I think that the Carbon V 5.5" 3 disk clutch would be the easiest to package in a FWD bellhousing without an adapter plate.

What kind of engine will you be using?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 09-23-2002).]

just assumed everyone would know it was a V8 swap. It's a 383 stroker to be exact. I'm putting stupid amounts of power through this thing so i want a clutch that will hold up. I've heard the QM is good for around 10k miles or so and that seems pretty reasonable so that's what spurred my decision.

Nothing particuliarily different abouthe Sper the Super Pro plate, other than it's billet aluminum instead of stamped steel. It may dissapate heat a little better, and it's going to be perfectly balanced (unlike the stamped piece, which might be off a bit, just like any clutch.)

Mostly, it just looks *really* friggin cool

Call QM, they'll set you up.

Archie has been working with QM as of late, to develop a flywheel and clutch system for his V8 kits, you may want to get in touch with him too!

It's definately the way to go, this puppy will hold 750lb-ft! (and I bet you get 20k out of it, and replacement discs/floaters are CHEAP!

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Follow Ben's advise! My pressure plate has been in since 1993, it's the stamped steel housing as the billet alum. wasn't available then. My pressure plate has endured 30,000 torture miles and only shows a very slight amount of wear on the diaphram fingers (wish we had spell check). Ballpark your mileage on disks at around 15,000 if you drive with a pretty heavy foot, if your are conservative you should get about 20,000 miles.

If you want to save some work changing disks (and your still setting your system up), you may want to consider modifying the flywheel to have a pilot bearing, and develope a disk positioning shaft (clutch disk pilot tool. It will save doing a double install of the trans to the engine (first time to get disks aligned, carefully remove trans, and final torque pressure plate, final install trans).

Happy motoring!!!
Tom

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Click to Listen!

Thanks fellas. i appreciate the help. Tom, i hadn't even considered the difficulties of getting the disks aligned yet. That sounds like a really good idea and probably wouldn't be that difficult to do. I'll definitely consider it. Thanks again.

Trevor

quote Originally posted by fix: just assumed everyone would know it was a V8 swap. It's a 383 stroker to be exact. I'm putting stupid amounts of power through this thing so i want a clutch that will hold up. I've heard the QM is good for around 10k miles or so and that seems pretty reasonable so that's what spurred my decision.

There are 3 types documented V8 swaps into Fieros, two of which do not require adapter plates.

I haven't looked into the fitment issues with an SBC yet.

For future reference i thought i'd post this. I just got off the phone with Mark Disch from quartermaster (great guy btw) and the unit he recommends is 296061OR. That's the 7.25" organic dual disc. I gotta say it's a little more expensive than i had thought but that won't stop me. I coulda had this V8 swap done 2 years ago but i refuse to cut corners. I forgot to ask about the aluminum pressure plate, but i'll be sure to do that when i order. I gotta say it again that i was very impressed by Mark at QM. Ben, I don't know how well you know this guy but he remembered your N*, and he knew the input shaft size for the fiero tranny and everything. The guy really impressed me with his knowledge of our V8 fieros.

Yep, he's the guy to talk to I've been dealing witih Mark for the last 6months or so on my clutch, and it's all been worth it.

He is THE guy to talk to, he'd even done a few Fieros before *I* talked to him.

The clutch is awesome, simply awesome. The outter housing ring is *machined titanium* and everything you get is well worth the (somewhat high, true) price.

The "Super Pro" pressure plate is a good buy. (especially since you DO KEEP IT when you 'change the clutch' )

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Are you guys talking only 15-20K of street driving.... Not racing???? Why such a short life span on the friction surface? This is my first V8 Fiero so maybe I am in for some surprises, but I would think at least 45K unless I beat it. With the amount of driving I plan to do with my "toy" that would still get me about three to five years, but it just seems short for I usually get around 100 K on my clutches. I am sure with the way I plan to drive my V8 it will be less, just not that much less.

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LS1 in and running

http://ls1swap.tripod.com/

[This message has been edited by LS1swap (edited 09-24-2002).]

Well... Tom gets 15-20k out of his, and he has 400+/400+ hp/tq, and he drives it like it's supposed to be driven (if he daily-drove it like a sane person, he'd probally get more? but where's the fun in that?!?)

The QM discs don't have a whole lot of friction material total on them, for efficent transfer of heat away and for added stregenth. They will HOLD ON while they're there though. (Quartermaster's site is ' www.racingclutches.com after all ;D) Note that "IRL/CART clutch?" They're not kidding. IRL and CART Indy cars use those. I called Mark once to harass him, and he was like "Can't talk now, I'm delivering parts to Indy. It was the Indy500 weekend..." The 7.25" line is for NASCAR/Winston Cup... (with metal friction discs, we use the organics for the street.)

It's a different world when you start talking exotics. We look at 10k out of a set of Pzeros as amazing, and most Ferrari guys are LUCKY to get 20k out of their stock type clutches. (and a replacement is FIVE GRAND... The QM is $1k to purchase, and $200 to service parts every 20k)

"Yeah, but it's a Fiero" you say?

Well, no, not really anymore, it's a 400+hp mid-engine sports car car that can eat a 360Modena in a straight line (if not a corner...)

Best!
Ben.

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Very well said Ben, it helps when you put a proper perspective on things!!!

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Click to Listen!

quote Originally posted by fix: I just got off the phone with Mark Disch from quartermaster and the unit he recommends is 296061OR.

That would be the one I got.

Question though,...did we make any progress with the flywheel?

Tina

quote Originally posted by Tina: That would be the one I got. Question though,...did we make any progress with the flywheel? Tina

Are you speaking of Tom's idea for aligning the clutch discs or is there another issue with the flywheels? I don't know what everyone else is using, but i was planning on using the SBC 400 flexplate. As i understand it the clutch is actually bolted to the end of the crank and the same bolts hold the flexplate in place. That being the case, I figured there should be no need for extra modifying. Is there something i'm not seeing as to why i couldn't or shouldn't do that?

You can do it two ways, just a 'button' and the flexplate used as a starter ring gear (you will have NO flywheel with this setup, it's the most extreme

OR, you can bolt the QM clutch to a modified Archie-type flywheel (Archie is working with QM on specific flywheels for SBC Fieros with the QM clutch. This isn't quite as extreme, but still quite pleasantly hardcore

Unless you're OK with your motor idleing at ~1200+rpm, and still occationally stalling the thing on launch like a race car (like I am!!!) you may want to go the fw route.

The 'just flexplate' will have a much lower innertial moment, and will allow you to shift faster, with more authority, with less stress on the driveline.

Best!
Ben.

quote Originally posted by fix: Are you speaking of Tom's idea for aligning the clutch discs or is there another issue with the flywheels? I don't know what everyone else is using, but i was planning on using the SBC 400 flexplate. As i understand it the clutch is actually bolted to the end of the crank and the same bolts hold the flexplate in place. That being the case, I figured there should be no need for extra modifying. Is there something i'm not seeing as to why i couldn't or shouldn't do that?

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

can you really stall out a 383 stroker on the launch? Seriously tho, my goal was to let the engine rev as quickly as possible but i hadn't considered the adverse effect on the launch mainly because i figured i would still have plenty of torque. My question now is what is better from a performance standpoint? The heavier fw will help you get off the line faster, but wouldn't the faster reving "flexplate only" setup more than make up for that? Besides, i don't expect to be doing many holeshots from a dead stop. Another thing which concerns me is the engine braking effect. With such a light rotating mass, will I smack my face on the windsheild if i chop the throttle without pushing in the clutch? I'm always a proponent of 'hardcore' performance but it still has to be somewhat streetable.

I am still interested in the quartermaster set up I was just surprised at first when I heard the expected life span. I am very interested in having virtually three times the amount of friction surface. I have a feeling that if I gave her all she had it would slip. especially in fifth. I was just wondering if you guy were talking strip usage which would really have an effect on its longevity, and is a hole different story. Keep us posted it is good to see other people trying different things and sharing the results with others.

Hey 'Fix' you don't have to worry much about stalling a high torque v8. I have a thin flywheel kinda halfway between Archies and a stamped steel flex plate, engine idles at 1150, and I can start the car rolling without touching the gas pedal.

As far as your worry about smacking your head against the windshield on deceleration from letting off the gas, you better have your seat belt on if you punch it from a 10mph roll in 1st gear, and suddenly lift off the gas.

But don't worry, it's very streetable, road course racing downshifts should be throttle matched for next gear selection to keep from upsetting the car, so it really isn't an issue. Down shifting on the street should be done in a similar fashion, crude downshifts with barking tires should only be done in uncontrolled emergencies.

LS1swap, the QM setup will hold all you can throw at it, even it 5th gear. Don't think you be testing 5th too much as it takes me beyond 165mph in my car.

Don't have a real good why to answer your question about durability life v/s driving style. I've only driven my car basically one way which is hard by many peoples standards. Sure there's some cruising miles in there as well, but when I take it out for a drive each time there's more than a couple repeats of the sound file near my signature, before it goes back into the garage. If you listen to the clip near the end, that's 75mph when I lift off the throttle in 3rd gear. Every trip out for me is like running a bunch of 1/8 mile drags (not full bore, but close enough to get the juices flowing).

Also keep in mind the downshifting/engine breaking will eat up clutch life as well, I still do it (old habit hard to break), but if you drive conservatively it's not required (and your less likely to be rear ended).

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Click to Listen!

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 09-25-2002).]

Well, there's one production car I know of to run 'flywheel-less' and that's the McLaren F1.

It's supposed to be surprisingly streetable, actually. (6litre V12, lotsa torque just like the 383 I mean, you probally won't be able to get away with idleing it off the line, but...

I don't think you'll have a problem, and yes, the lightening-FAST rev capability makes for a faster accelerating car (that's why *all* racing cars that are allowed to, get rid of flywheels!)

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Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. (2:13.138 at Sears Point) "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Or look on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1864102535