I put a new starter in my $200 84 2M4 and after some cranking on 2 year old gas, it fired up!

It idles rough, feels smooth up to 2-3K RPM. I didn't rev it too high, I want to change the oil. After about a minute of running, it dies like the fuel was turned off. It'll re-start shortly afterwards and run the same. I'll change the fuel filter and see if thatr makes a difference. I can hear the fuel pump run for 2-3 seconds like it should before I start it. I don't think it gave any codes.

I am also hoping I did not burn up my new strarter motor. The last time I tried to start it, it just did the click click thinh like the old starter did. one thing about the starter, it came out of an '89 Grand Am. It went in OK, however it is about 1/4" shorter than the original starter.

So, my plan is to change the fuel filter, oil, oil filter, air filter, put a few more gallons of gas and STP, and hope the starter is still good.

Any suggestions are welcome!

Drain the tank, the gas goes after about 6-12 months...

the click click would be the battery unfortuntly i know

I guess the starter got hot or something. I've got a new battery, and it cranks pretty good. I went out after a few hours and it cranked for a few seconds a fired up. It ran a little better, still pretty rough at idle; smooth above 1500 RPM.

I imagine good gas, filters,and plugs will help a little. I think there is something tha tis not letting all cylinders fire at idle, not sure.

I brole the water pump/alternator belt, I knew it was loose ; i guess it couldn't hack it. The water pump and alternator seem to turn freely...

hah!

Dont waste your money. I bought a Fiero 2m4 for 400$. Great deal. I figured a little work would make the engine run good. It runs really rough, and doesnt idle under 1500rpm. I did a compression test.

Cylinder 4 = 90
Cylinder 3 = 150
Cylinder 2 = 150
Cylinder 1 = 0!

You dont have a piston firing. You will probably need a new engine, or try to get the rings unstuck.

[This message has been edited by ClearDark (edited 09-05-2002).]

Hmm, I do have alittle more optimism than the dark guy; however, I'm going to get a Quad 4 and a 2.8 out of a pair of Barettas here shortly. If it does come to a new engine, I'll be prepared. The engine was replaced by GM about 30 K miles ago, so I'm somewhat comfortable with the internals.

We'll see!

Change the spark plugs ,wires , distributer and rotor . Clean out the TBI with a good cleanser .Drain the old gas out , replace with 93 octane .Replace fuel filter ,PVC ,check for any vaccum hoses that may be cracked or dry rotted .

Hope this helps ?

Galen Smith
Red 85 Sport Coupe
Founder of Suncoast Fiero Club

I was putting spark plugs in, apparently they have not been out for some time... I broke the right hand (#1?) spark plug off. The head twisted off and the center electrode came out, the threaded portion is rusted in. I'm going to go to Autozone and get a large screw extractor. I have it soaking in PB Blaster now. I sure hope I don't have to pull the head off.

Hopefully I can get the spark plug out. I put some new gas in, new filters, new PCV valve; going to put new oil with about 1 pint of Marvel Mystery oil in the crank case.

quote Originally posted by ClearDark: hah! Dont waste your money. I bought a Fiero 2m4 for 400$. Great deal. I figured a little work would make the engine run good. It runs really rough, and doesnt idle under 1500rpm. I did a compression test. Cylinder 4 = 90 Cylinder 3 = 150 Cylinder 2 = 150 Cylinder 1 = 0! You dont have a piston firing. You will probably need a new engine, or try to get the rings unstuck. [This message has been edited by ClearDark (edited 09-05-2002).]

Uh?
Unsticking the rings? If you can turn it over, the rings are free

Since when is having a rough idle a death sentence? Not surprising it runs like crap on crap gas. Cutting after a minute sounds like an electrical problem.

Does the engine surge just before dying, or is it constant, and suddenly croaks?

My GT sat for a few years, the old owner was afraid it would burst into flames. I changed the oil and filled it up with some good gas, I have been driving it for almost a year. Good luck and stay with it.

Mach 10

It ran much longer after I put a gallon of fresh gas in the tank (almost on empty). Then the alt/water pump belt broke, so i shut it down. I'm hoping the new gas, plugs( ), capand rotor will help some. If I can get iot to run reliably for more than 10 mins I can probably do some good diagnosis.

Thanks for the replies, it's nice to have somebody listen/read.

Mach10-the term 'stuck rings' refers to the condition in which the ring is 'stuck' in one position. That is, it doesn't have any outward spring action to it any more, and doesn't provide a good seal to the cyl wall, resulting in loss of compression in the affected cyl. In other words, the ring won't expand. The engine is actually a lot easier to turn over if you have stuck rings. You young whippersnappers know it all tho.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-07-2002).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Mach10-the term 'stuck rings' refers to the condition in which the ring is 'stuck' in one position. That is, it doesn't have any outward spring action to it any more, and doesn't provide a good seal to the cyl wall, resulting in loss of compression in the affected cyl. In other words, the ring won't expand. The engine is actually a lot easier to turn over if you have stuck rings. You young whippersnappers know it all tho. [This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-07-2002).]

Exactly! Carbon sticks the rings in the ring lands of the pistons. This engine is TERRIBLE about this. If he has 0 compression he has an open/burned valve or a burned piston.

Phil

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GTDude
OVER 25 years GM experience

Compression seems OK, I haven't done a test yet, but will when i get this spark plug out.

Stuck rings, frozen rings...
One sticks in the piston, the other sticks to the cylinder. AFAIK, you get the rings binding themselves to the cylinder wall when you let the engine sit for a long time...

I DO know that you won't get *0* compression from a stuck ring. The ring won't compress itself as it binds, and lift off the cylinder wall. Lose seat pressure, maybe, and cause all sorts of blow-by and oil-burning nastiness...

This guy don't say ANYTHING about burning oil. Just running rough on bad gas...

Best way to try and free up those rings is to let the piston swim in penetrating oil for a couple of days, and chase with some ATF, isn't it?

Okay, the Fiero Gods smile upon Me. After getting everythin correctly hooked up, that spark plug changed, new belts, etc, it runs fairly well. I think there may still be some bad gas issues though.

On the other hand, it's like there is some slowness to respond to throtle inputs. Also, I am pretty sure the alternator's voltage regulstor is not operating properly, itis over charging; the needle gets into the red and the battery light comes on.

Next major issue: It is very difficult to get started aft3er sitting for a while. It'll turn ovewr and kinda catch for a little, then after a few minutes, it'll start OK. It's as if the fuel pressure regulator is letting all the gas bleed back into the tank...

No smoke, a little valve (?) noise, nothing alarming, fan (noisey, needs to be replaced) kicks on about 220* F. Over all, I'm very happy. There's a few things to figure out, but nothing too expensive.

As a side note; I just met one of my neighbors. His brother in law owns a junk yard in Northern Indiana, he has 7 or 8 Fieros that are in good shape to part out or whatever, let me know if there are any major parts needed and I'll see what we can do.

quote Originally posted by Mach10: Stuck rings, frozen rings... Best way to try and free up those rings is to let the piston swim in penetrating oil for a couple of days, and chase with some ATF, isn't it?

Canada & the USA-2 countries separated by a common language. Yep, penetrating oil & ATF may unstick a ring-if you've used none of your allotted luck in your lifetime. Guess I used all mine up-it never worked for me.

Thank you maryjane for explaining what I meant. He didnt understand why I got 0 compression, You are absolutely correct.
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If your engine is still running rough, do a compression check...do it anyways, I want to know how it turns out

Clear: Nah, I'm with GT on this one... IF you are getting *0* compression, I'd say a burned valve, BROKEN rings, or holed piston. something has to be blown WIDE open for that.

Sticky rings will give you crap compression, junk leak-down, and blow-by out the pa-toot... But you are still getting SOME contact with the cylinder walls.

Ditto on the compression check!

So how's the car running now???

Bump

The car is running OK. I think more fresh gas would help. I need to fix the alternator before I run the engine much more, it's putting out 18+ volts every now and then. It's kind of alarming to watch the gas gauge go up!

I'll do the compression test when I get back from my business trip next week. At least I have a lap top and can check the forum, uh, company e-mail, yeah that's what I meant.